Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 247

Thread: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

  1. #181

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Save there life by drinking venom
    What the heck are you saying
    Show me the info you have on them
    Re-read your interpretations.

    16. "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved ; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned .
    17. "These signs will accompany those who have believed : in My name they will cast out demons , they will speak with new tongues ;
    18. they will pick up serpents , and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick , and they will recover ."
    MIND...the mind is clearly stated here. God can allow you to survive a venomous bite if he chooses to, but its safe to assume that if you drink the venom you will die. Thats why we have a concept of thought and mind.
    Where's thought and mind here? It says clear that the one who believes and is baptised will drink venom and survive, which is false.

    Nobody worthwhile is saying take the bible literally, your fairly obvious observation that the bible contradicts itself is not breaking news. That's why it's so easy to find scriptural evidence to support both sides of an argument and that's why it's a waste of time.
    Contradictions ain't a news to me, too.

    Samuel 2:8 reads: "for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them." Do you know of anyone who takes this passage literally?

    Origen, in one of the earliest commentaries on scripture in the 3rd century wrote: "the spiritual truth was often preserved, as one might say, in material falsehood."
    Oh yes, the attempts of alleogrically interpreting many things often lead to strange results, nevertheless people still believe them .
    Last edited by Marie Louise von Preussen; January 31, 2008 at 10:05 AM.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  2. #182
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    19,146

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Your mind if properly trained, may help you survive venom too. It is just that the training is a bit long and difficult?...

  3. #183
    Shisai
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    So you refuse to believe in God because you would rather drink till your liver dies, have sex till you get a STD, and relish in excess till you die?
    Not quite. I refuse to believe in God because the notion is rediculous and pure speculation. I do not believe anything on faith alone. The drinking and casual sex are just forms of entertainment to me and are not linked, at all, except at that party, with my disbelief in God and my disrespect for religion.

    Even though most people who have posted on this forum dont believe a single thing I believe, I still hold what they post above what you did. At least TG, for example, bases his world view on science and research and although him and i are different I still respect him as a intelligent person who knows what he knows and studies. At least people like TG and Umma give me a reason to research deeper into science to make arguements with reason (even if they still dont agree with me.).
    As I said, I won't debate Christianity as if it deserves debating anymore than I would debate with any future children of mine over the existence of their imaginary friend. Debating a topic intelligently when the topic is something as rediculous as belief in an invisible God only lends legitimacy to the topic and Christianity deserves none.

    What you are saying is you want to goof off your entire life being a rebel with no cause.
    Frankly, I find you view a mockery of life. At least Athiest base their point of view on their own analysis. Yours is just plain rubbish.
    Not quite, I'm actually a psychology major with a 3.9 gpa, pursuing my bachelors at the moment, with full plans of seeking a masters then doctorate but thanks for judging my whole existence based upon one hedonistic and sacrilegious party I attended. General Christian mindset there, if a man is sacrilegious and does not believe in God he must be a rebel with no cause and making a mockery of life.

    I dont hate you or anything, but i just do not get where you are coming from. Until better explained i think the post you made is a meer rant
    It was a rant, in ways, to show my disregard for Christianity as a legitimate topic of debate but I see I had to elaborate as the two Christians defending their faith decided that a simple, humorous anecdote was indicative of a pathological desire to fornicate and drink myself to death, in an attempt to mock life. I hope my position is a bit more clear now.
    Last edited by HopliteElite; January 31, 2008 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #184
    Opifex
    Technical Staff

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    15,922

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    HopliteElite, I doubt you will be able to answer religious arguments raised in this debate:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=143583

    Most people who think they're religious need to learn from that debate about how to argue.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
    down and lick the hand that feeds you,
    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  5. #185
    basics's Avatar Auxiliarius
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Scotland, UK.
    Posts
    6,771

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    SigniferOne,

    " Most people who think they're religious need to learn from that debate about how to argue."

    It's not about argument. It's only about telling what Jesus Christ has done for the believer, passing on what He could do for you. The hardest part of that is how do you get to convince someone of this without them experiencing what you as a believer have knowledge of?

    As you can see from the threads, not one has asked for further answers but that whatever is said comes from a pre-conceived position in which they have never believed the message from the start. This draws certain Christians into arguments composed usually of one-line abuse where an answer needs more than that.

    But then one doesn't believe in Christianity at all without raising the spectre of ill-done deeds done in it's name, something that the unbeliever uses as a weapon to defend his or her own position. Christians can't help believing in Jesus Christ, because if what they tell of has happened to them, they have no option. They belong to Him whereas before they belonged to sin.

  6. #186
    KingDesra's Avatar Suzuki
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Seriously, there is no contridictions of the bible, but yet the explainations are not good enough for you. Basically it comes down to wanting to reconigize that Christ is the Way or not. If we were to explain every last detail, it wouldn't matter much. Arguing over secondary issues are usually fruitless when someone is more into proving God wrong then trying to see if He's true. But there will always be people on both sides of the track and in the end when Christ comes back, well remember when you hear about people disappearing don't say I didn't warn you lol

  7. #187

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Basically it comes down to wanting to reconigize that Christ is the Way or not.
    Since your affirmations about the absolute truth of Christianity are based on... (surprise!) nothing, your affirmations are nothing more than pure wishful speculation. You might burn in hell because you didn't worship Mohammed and Allah, and both speculations have the same piece of convincing evidences: none.

    To me, besides the bad points, it's just a sign that it is claiming more than it could ever be real. Another book of fairy tales, like the one who tells you to ask fairy grandmother to get your daily cake and flowers.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  8. #188
    ThiudareiksGunthigg's Avatar Tasmanian Devil
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6,377

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    I'm assuming this reply is meant to be to me. Perhaps one day KingDesra will finally work out how to use the quote function. We live in hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingDesra View Post
    Seriously, there is no contridictions of the bible ....
    Sorry, but simply repeating that assertion won't make it true.

    ... but yet the explainations are not good enough for you.
    The explanations aren't good enough for objective historians or anyone who looks at the evidence without the distorting bias of fundamentalist Christianity skewing their vision. Historical evidence shows that Luke contradicts Matthew on the dating of Jesus' birth. And historical evidence also shows that fundamentalist attempts to conjure a unrecorded earlier census out of thin air to try to avoid this contradiction also doesn't work.

    Basically it comes down to wanting to reconigize that Christ is the Way or not.
    Garbage. It comes down to accepting what the historical evidence indicates. This may be a shock to you, but most Christians actually have no problem with the idea that Matthew and Luke contradict each other on this point, because they focus on the meaning of these stories and don't see them as statements of documentary fact. This contradiction is only a problem for the fundamentalist minority within Christianity, which insists that the Bible contains no errors or contradictions and focuses on face-value, literal meanings.

    If we were to explain every last detail, it wouldn't matter much.
    Again, garbage. I happily accept that a lot in the gospels is historical and actually did happen the way the gospels say. Just not this bit. Show me evidence of an earlier census and explain why a Roman governor was administering a census in a client kingdom and I'll happily accept it. Simply asserting that this earlier census happened, however, based on no evidence and nothing at all except wishful thinking won't cut it.

    Arguing over secondary issues are usually fruitless when someone is more into proving God wrong then trying to see if He's true.
    More garbage. I have no interest in "proving [your] God wrong". I do have an interest in things like ancient history and factual accuracy. If you make claims like "there are no errors in the Bible" and I know there are, I'll tell you your claim is wrong.

    But there will always be people on both sides of the track and in the end when Christ comes back, well remember when you hear about people disappearing don't say I didn't warn you lol
    And, yet again, you fall back on shouting "I'm right and in the end you'll all be sorry!" and running away. Doesn't it bother you that every time you make one of these statements of fact you get shot down and have to fall back on saying "We'll I know I'm right anyway because I have FAITH I am so there!"?

    Surely the fact that you keep getting shot down repeatedly is beginning to ring some alarm bells.

  9. #189
    KingDesra's Avatar Suzuki
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Shot down? LOL hardly, you haven't proven anything yet. Just because people won't believe don't make me waver, just makes me sorry for them because they are so into their god science. But like we all know, it comes down to the end of all things.

  10. #190
    ThiudareiksGunthigg's Avatar Tasmanian Devil
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6,377

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingDesra View Post
    Shot down? LOL hardly, you haven't proven anything yet.
    BLACK KNIGHT:
    Right. I'll do you for that!
    ARTHUR:
    You'll what?
    BLACK KNIGHT:
    Come here!
    ARTHUR:
    What are you going to do, bleed on me?
    BLACK KNIGHT:
    I'm invincible!
    ARTHUR:
    You're a looney.
    BLACK KNIGHT:
    The Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you! Come on, then.
    [whop]
    [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's last leg off]
    BLACK KNIGHT:
    Oh? All right, we'll call it a draw.

    Let me summarise for you: (i) Luke and Matthew contradict each other on the dating of Jesus birth, (ii) there couldn't have been an earlier census which would make Luke and Matthew not contradict each other, therefore (iii) the Bible contains a contradiction right there.

    Now if you claim I'm wrong about this, show me how. And saying you just have faith blah blah blah won't do - this is a discussion about history and evidence.

    Just because people won't believe don't make me waver ...
    It looks like logic and historical facts won't make you waver either. Poeple who won't waver in the face of logic and facts are called "fanatics".

  11. #191

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Edit - Wrong thread .

    It looks like logic and historical facts won't make you waver either. Poeple who won't waver in the face of logic and facts are called "fanatics".
    Agreed 100%.
    Last edited by Marie Louise von Preussen; January 31, 2008 at 10:05 PM.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  12. #192
    KingDesra's Avatar Suzuki
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    I gave an explaination, but like I said it wouldn't satisfy its fine.

  13. #193
    Oldgamer's Avatar My President ...
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Illinois, and I will obtain my concealed carry permit!
    Posts
    7,511

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiudareiksGunthigg View Post
    Let me summarise for you: (i) Luke and Matthew contradict each other on the dating of Jesus birth, (ii) there couldn't have been an earlier census which would make Luke and Matthew not contradict each other, therefore (iii) the Bible contains a contradiction right there.

    Now if you claim I'm wrong about this, show me how. And saying you just have faith blah blah blah won't do - this is a discussion about history and evidence.

    It looks like logic and historical facts won't make you waver either. Poeple who won't waver in the face of logic and facts are called "fanatics".
    When I was in Grammar School ... long ago in the Dark Ages ... I remember a teacher saying that there is no proof that anyone named Pontius Pilate ever lived. Even if he lived, he was a procurator, not a praefect. Therefore, according to him, if one fact in the Bible is wrong, then all claims made in the Bible are wrong.

    Then, in 1961, a Dr. Frova, leading a team of Italian archaeologists, while excavating a Roman amphitheater in Caesarea, found a stone. This stone was the dedication stone of a "Tiberium" in honor of the rule of, and the Imperial Cult of, Tiberius Caesar. It stated that the Tiberium was dedicated to Tiberius, and was signed PONTIUS PILATUS, PRAEFECTUS IUDAEAE.



    So, there was a Pontius Pilate, and he was a Praefect, not a Procurator.

    Note that Luke and Matthew did not collaborate with each other on the writing of their Gospels. They wrote from their remembrances, and those of other people. I find no problem with the apparent contradiction between them.

    Suffice it to say that there was a census. Jesus, the Christ, was born during this census. As time slips by, some archaeologist will unearth evidence for the timing of the census, which will cause skeptics to look for something else to attack in the Bible ...

  14. #194
    ThiudareiksGunthigg's Avatar Tasmanian Devil
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6,377

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingDesra View Post
    I gave an explaination, but like I said it wouldn't satisfy its fine.
    And I explained why your (cut and pasted fundie) "explaination" doesn't work. You haven't responded to that, apart from to try to pretend your "explaination" wasn't shot down.

    Did you not understand what I said?

    Did you not read what I said?

    If you did read and understand what I said, you now need to show how I'm wrong. Because if you can't or don't, your "explaination" has been shot down and you are left without an argument.

    Over to you.

  15. #195
    KingDesra's Avatar Suzuki
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Thanks Old gamer The bible is being proven all the time, may not have all the evidence straight away but it comes up as the years progress

  16. #196
    Oldgamer's Avatar My President ...
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Illinois, and I will obtain my concealed carry permit!
    Posts
    7,511

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingDesra View Post
    Thanks Old gamer The bible is being proven all the time, may not have all the evidence straight away but it comes up as the years progress
    You're most welcome, sir!

    It's just like the scientific theory of dark matter. There is no proof ... except mathematics ... that dark matter exists. No one has seen it. No one has measured or observed it. No one has quantified it. But yet, people desperate for a cyclical universe (one that does not need a God), still postulate it and claim it must be fact.

    When confronted with the real facts, that is, that it hasn't been detected or measured, all they say is, "The discovery is right around the corner!"

    Faith in God does not require proof to the believer, even though the believer is fully capable of rational discourse. Neither does faith in dark matter. The is the gray area where science becomes religion.

    I agree, however, that many of the facts presented in the pages of the Bible are discovered all the time. As of yet, none of the pages in the Bible of Dark Matter have been verified.

    Interesting ...

  17. #197
    ThiudareiksGunthigg's Avatar Tasmanian Devil
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6,377

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgamer View Post
    When I was in Grammar School ... long ago in the Dark Ages ... I remember a teacher saying that there is no proof that anyone named Pontius Pilate ever lived. Even if he lived, he was a procurator, not a praefect. Therefore, according to him, if one fact in the Bible is wrong, then all claims made in the Bible are wrong.

    If indeed you do remember your teacher telling you that, then your teacher was an idiot. Pontius Pilate is mentioned in Tacitus and his rule was discussed in detail by Josephus in both his Jewish War and his Antiquities of the Jews and by Philo of Alexandria in his Embassy to Gaius. That makes him one of the best attested officials of the reign of Tiberius and one that no-one would ever doubt existed. Indeed, no-one ever has doubted he existed.

    Then, in 1961, a Dr. Frova, leading a team of Italian archaeologists, while excavating a Roman amphitheater in Caesarea, found a stone. This stone was the dedication stone of a "Tiberium" in honor of the rule of, and the Imperial Cult of, Tiberius Caesar. It stated that the Tiberium was dedicated to Tiberius, and was signed PONTIUS PILATUS, PRAEFECTUS IUDAEAE.

    What Frova found was the first archaeological evidence of Pilate. He didn't find anything that silenced doubters about Pilate's existence, because these doubters never existed in the first place. This whole idea is a Christian apologist myth, though one perpetuated by Christian works that try to pretend the nasty sceptics were crushed and the gospels vindicated by this find. Take the site you've used for that image of the inscription, for example:

    It wasn't long ago when many scholars were questioning the actual existence of a Roman Governor with the name Pontius Pilate, the procurator who ordered Jesus' crucifixion. In June 1961 Italian archaeologists led by Dr. Frova were excavating an ancient Roman amphitheatre near Caesarea-on-the-Sea (Maritima) and uncovered this interesting limestone block.
    Which scholars were questioning the existence of Pilate? The site doesn't bother to say. How did these questioning scholars explain the mention of Pilate in no less than three extra-Biblical sources, two Jewish and one Roman? Again, they don't say. They never do say who these doubters were, they just parrot this myth that they had existed.

    In fact, when Christians have tried to trot out this neat little parable of the gospels vindicated and the sceptics dismayed, I've asked them to produce a scholar from before 1961 who doubted the existence of Pilate. None so far has been able to.

    So since you (allegedly) "remember" being taught this Oldgamer, perhaps you'd like to find me a pre-1961 scholar who said there was no evidence that Pilate existed. Because so far the only non-existent people in this cute little story are these supposed sceptical scholars.

    Suffice it to say that there was a census. Jesus, the Christ, was born during this census. As time slips by, some archaeologist will unearth evidence for the timing of the census, which will cause skeptics to look for something else to attack in the Bible ...
    Well, do let me know when this happens, won't you.

    In the meantime your assumption that the contradiction is only an "apparent" one remains nothing more than wishful thinking and the evidence still falls squarely on the side of the contradiction being entirely real. Crossing your fingers and hoping something will turn up that will change that might make you feel a bit better, but the contradiction is still there.

    And citing total nonsense about how people once believed Pilate didn't exist doesn't change that either.

  18. #198
    Romano B.'s Avatar Suzuki
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    202

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Good posting, Oldgamer, and KingDesra. You have my respect.

  19. #199
    Roman Knight's Avatar Shusaku
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingDesra View Post
    Thanks Old gamer The bible is being proven all the time, may not have all the evidence straight away but it comes up as the years progress
    Do you know how many gospels there are? 20

    But you do know that they only picked out 4 that were the least contradictory. That sounds somewhat dodgy:hmmm:

  20. #200
    KingDesra's Avatar Suzuki
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: Why do I keep believing in Christianity?

    Many things are coming to light all the time, The Ark, The Flood, Jesus' life and death, also His resurrection. They found alot of evidence of the Flood, even many people think they have now found the ark http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2...TICLE_ID=50857

    Aw man imagine if that's it lol would be awesome, atheist would be like WHAAAAAAA lol but then again they'll still say nope that's not it lol. Of course you can find alot of the evidence of Jesus, secular scientists even acknowledge the idea of a global flood. Just a few things that already came to light not to mention the many many cities that were found mentioned in the bible... wonder if any scientist can explain what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah?
    Last edited by KingDesra; February 01, 2008 at 12:34 AM.

Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •