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Thread: How to mod Hungary? general informations

  1. #1
    Csatádi's Avatar Senator
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    Default How to mod Hungary? general informations

    This thread contains modding informations about the Kindom of Hungary. I will put the new datas into the first post. Ask in this topic if you need more info.

    Geography
    The Carpathian Basin is wrong on the vanilla map in many cases. Take a look at a real geographical map or into our mod files. The river Duna is on the wrong place and at least the river Tisza and the lake should be presented. In our mod even the ferries are on the right place.

    http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/eg...3/carpat13.gif
    Light blue: very swampy.
    Even lighter blue: swampy.
    On the lowlands there should be only a few trees but Transdanubia, upper Hungary and Transysvania should have woodlands especially on the mountains.


    http://www.ace.hu/igcp442/maps.html
    The old shape of the lakes are shown on these maps even better.
    The 2 extra lakes on the Lowlands were actually swamps covered with water all the year. You may add these as lakes, too.

    Political map
    Medieval Hungary had 50-70 counties which were too little to represent in on a tw map. Transylvania, Slavonia and later Croatia had bigger areas which suit in size to be a region. So we use geographical division methods rather political in the rest case.

    To the economical calculation:
    Hungary had around 1,5-1,7 million inhabitants in 1080. (Croatia didn't belonged to Hungary in those years, only half of Slavonia. For comparison England had about 1,2 million inhabitants in those years.

    Maps:
    1340
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/~mihalyi/prob...370%20domb.jpg

    1118
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/~mihalyi/prob...118%20domb.jpg

    1038
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/~mihalyi/prob...038%20domb.jpg
    The gray area called Gyepű were border-lands and were used to defend the country. The northern-eastern line was mostly uninhabited. Hungary mantained a loose control on these lands.

    Names
    It is impossible to make a perfect name list, because there were important changes in the name use during the times.
    Phases:
    -till the 13th century: old (pagan) names, aristocrats preferred the Christian names a little more. I suggest to use 10-15% Christian names. "Son of" name structure, no family names.
    -From the beginning of the 13th century genus names came into the mode between the land owners (nobles and wealthier warriors)
    -From 1268 Christian personal names came into use because of a law. Some rare old Magyar names remained like Farkas.
    -Also from the end of the 13th century surnames started to appear. The former genus names became family names and the rich people generally took family names. The peasants had no family names for centuries.

    Character traits
    Trigger random_birth_hungary
    WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

    Condition FactionType hungary

    Affects Anger 1 Chance 10
    Affects Generous 1 Chance 10
    Affects Xenophilia 1 Chance 10
    Affects PublicFaith 1 Chance 20
    Affects GoodCavalryGeneral 1 Chance 25

    Ancillaries

    Magister P or Anonymous
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Ancillary magister_p
    Type Court
    Transferable 0
    Image religious_priest.tga
    Unique
    Description magister_p_desc
    EffectsDescription magister_p_effects_desc
    Effect LocalPopularity 1

    Trigger magister_p_anc_trigger
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    Condition IsGeneral
    and FactionType hungary
    and IsFactionLeader
    and EndedInSettlement
    and I_TurnNumber >= 54
    and I_TurnNumber <= 62
    AcquireAncillary magister_p chance 25

    {magister_p} Magister P

    {magister_p_desc}
    Magister P had wrote the origin and the history of the conquest of the Hungarians in his romantic work Gesta Hungarorum.

    {magister_p_effects_desc}
    +1 popularity
    Last edited by Csatádi; December 22, 2008 at 06:12 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/eg...3/carpat13.gif
    Light blue: very swampy.
    Even lighter blue: swampy.
    On the lowlands there should be only a few trees but Transdanubia, upper Hungary and Transysvania should have woodlands especially on the mountains.


    http://www.ace.hu/igcp442/maps.html
    The old shape of the lakes are shown on these maps even better.
    The 2 extra lakes on the Lowlands were actually swamps covered with water all the year. You may add these as lakes, too.


    1340
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/~mihalyi/prob...370%20domb.jpg

    1118
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/~mihalyi/prob...118%20domb.jpg

    1038
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/~mihalyi/prob...038%20domb.jpg
    The gray area called Gyepű were border-lands and were used to defend the country. The northern-eastern line was mostly uninhabited. Hungary mantained a loose control on these lands.
    Last edited by Csatádi; August 31, 2010 at 10:07 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Battle and campaign AI

    Oh, I AM interested in all these sorts of things.

    Here's our version of Hungary in 1080:


    Not too different from your map I guess (the resources are still missing on that pic; an additional river might not hurt too).

    Or Hungary's Family tree:

    Béla (+ 1063) married to ?
    1) László(K)(40) married to Adelaide
    ---1) Piroska(1)
    2)Géza(died 1077) married to Sophia(+ 1075)
    ---1)Kálmán(H)(16)
    ---2)Álmos(10)

    We also have an awardable office 'Archbishop of Esztergom' and much more....

    I'm always happy when people give me more and more historic informations. If you have the time, pop in our forum and tell us what you think.

    Cheers,
    D.

    Retired creator of 'Das Heilige Römische Reich' - Get v. 0.7 here.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Visit my homepage.
    --------------------------------------------
    Proud son of jimkatalanos, grandson of Garbarsardar and father of DerDiskusWerfer and HannibalExMachina.

  4. #4
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    Default

    I decided to answer here because other modders may be interested, too.

    I think our map is quite different. The vanilla map of the Carpathian basin is wrong.

    Nagyvárad is the modern name of Várad. You may notice I used other spelling in Hungarian city names because in our mod they will wear their medieval names. This may be surprizing even for the born Magyars.


    The family tree depends on how you use the historical datas. If you want only a flavor you may use even Piroska and the young princes can be older they were in history. We use the historic way:

    character Laszlo, named character, male, leader, age 40, x 169, y 121
    traits Factionleader 1 , GoodCommander 2 , Energetic 1 , TouchedByTheGods 2 , Intelligent 1 , StrategyChivalry 4 , ReligionStarter 1 , ReligiousActivity 8

    character_record AgnesM, female, age 60, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record Zsofia, female, age 40, alive, never_a_leader
    ;character_record Adelhaid, female, age 16, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record Kalman, male, age 6, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record Almus, male, age 5, alive, never_a_leader

    relative Bela, AgnesM, Gyeicsa, Laszlo, end
    relative Gyeicsa, Zsofia, Kalman, Almus, end
    ;relative Laszlo, Adelhaid, end

    As you can see I removed Adelhaid because in 1080 she was only about 13 years old and the time of their marriage isn't known. I gave a diplomatic chance to Hungary this way, too.
    I found the family members should be alive. So I kill Béla and Gyeicsa (Géza) with console commands before the start of the game.

    Because there are only one family member I implemented the character of the nádor into the game. The nádor was the "prime minister" of the king.

    character Gyula, named character, male, age 51, x 160, y 111
    traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 1 , Intelligent 1 , Drink 1 , ReligionStarter 1
    Last edited by Csatádi; December 26, 2008 at 03:22 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    Very generous and optimistic map for Hungary. Zagreb was not part of the kingdom nominally until 1092, and formally only after 1102.

    I wonder what sources you used...

    Author of the ---== Knights Templar Mod ==---
    Creator of the ---== Lord Calidor's Weapon Pack 1 ==---
    Member of the ---== Dominion of the Sword ==--- and ---== C.B.U.R.P ==---

  6. #6
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    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    On my maps half of Slavonia was part of Hungary in 1080, actually from the Magyar conquest. Hungary used its southern part as a border area. I wanted to keep the province as a whole. That's why I gave it to Hungary but I placed a rebel Croatian fort on its southern part.
    I suppose you think on Croatia with these dates.

  7. #7

    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    Quote Originally Posted by Csatádi View Post
    On my maps half of Slavonia was part of Hungary in 1080, actually from the Magyar conquest. Hungary used its southern part as a border area. I wanted to keep the province as a whole. That's why I gave it to Hungary but I placed a rebel Croatian fort on its southern part.
    I suppose you think on Croatia with these dates.
    Sure, I mean on 1080 and the following years.
    It's true that Almos was a duke of Slavonia in the 1080s, however he was given this title on a blood relations basis, not vassalage to the Hungarian crown - his aunt, Ilona, was the wife of Croatian king Dmitar Zvonimir, and up until his succesor's Stjepan II death (1091.), it was an integral part of Croatian Kingdom, with its northern border with Hungary on the Drava river.

    When the royal Croatian bloodline ended with him, Laszlo I claimed the Croatian throne and promoted Almos to King of Slavonia. Even then, it functioned as a sort of independent dukedom, and was formally included with the Kingdom of Hungary in 1102.

    Author of the ---== Knights Templar Mod ==---
    Creator of the ---== Lord Calidor's Weapon Pack 1 ==---
    Member of the ---== Dominion of the Sword ==--- and ---== C.B.U.R.P ==---

  8. #8

    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    Many thanks for all that info Csatádi!

    Cheers,
    D.

    Retired creator of 'Das Heilige Römische Reich' - Get v. 0.7 here.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Visit my homepage.
    --------------------------------------------
    Proud son of jimkatalanos, grandson of Garbarsardar and father of DerDiskusWerfer and HannibalExMachina.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    Lord_Calidor,
    I will check your info. I have doubts if Dmitar Zvonimir was allowed to attach Slavonia to his kingdom after his crowning.

    Dimitri_Harkov,
    Not at all. Ask here if you need more info.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    Lord_Calidor,
    So I didn't find anything what would support your opinion.
    From 1075 Dmitar was the Croatian ruler AND ban of Slavonia. It doesn't mean Slavonia became the part of his kingdom.
    Last edited by Csatádi; October 15, 2008 at 06:29 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    Slavonia was already a part of Croatian Kingdom. King Tomislav united it with Dalmatia under a single crown in 925.

    My sources are:
    - De Administrando Imperio, by Constantine VII Porphyrogennes, 950.
    - Alexiad, by Anna Komnenene, 1148.
    - History of Croatia in the time of local rulers, by Ferdo Sisic, 1925.
    - Sources for Croatian History until 1526., by N. Klaic, 1972.
    - Knaurs Weltgeschichte, Berlin 1935.
    - Putzger Schulgeschichtenatlas, Wien 1904.
    - Authentic transcripts of city statutes and reports sent to the Pope, Croatian Kings and later, also Hungarian, 950-1104., collected by Jaroslav Sidak, 1952.

    You can find most of the maps here: http://www.crohis.com/kartesis.htm under "Karte" in the top menu.

    Author of the ---== Knights Templar Mod ==---
    Creator of the ---== Lord Calidor's Weapon Pack 1 ==---
    Member of the ---== Dominion of the Sword ==--- and ---== C.B.U.R.P ==---

  12. #12

    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    I hope, this may help a little bit.

    "The region was originally part of the Roman province of Pannonia. In the 7th century a Slavonic state owing allegiance to the Avars was established, soon replaced by the Croats. Slavonia was defended by King Tomislav of the House of Trpimirović from Hungarian invaders and annexed to his newly-created Kingdom of Croatia in 925. In 1027 a Hungarian Army under Stjepan Svetoslavić of the side branch of the Trpimirović dynasty took Slavonia and made it a Slavonian Banate of the Kingdom of Hungary, ruled by its own dynasty of Svetoslavić. Slavonia was reunified with Croatia in the 1070s under King Dmitar Zvonimir Svetoslavić. In 1091 it separated again and accepted the suzerainty of the Hungarian crown. 11 years later, the rest of Croatia also accepted the suzerainty of the Hungarian crown. In the 12th century there was a practice that successor of the throne first became Duke of "whole Slavonia" (like the eldest British prince is prince of Wales), and there were some power grabs since in many cases son waged war against father, trying to establish and confirm its power base. Though Slavonia was originally considered to be part of the Kingdom of Hungary by Hungarian public law, it became more and more separated from the Kingdom of Hungary and had more and more tied to the Kingdom of Croatia."
    Wikipedia, Slavonia article
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    I think the Slavonian story is quite unclear but it would be interesting if Slavonia is under Dmitar in 1080 and King László has the chance for a bigger campaign against the Croatians.

    In the northern part of Hungary I made a bigger cut in favor for the Polish following Silezian_Noble's suggestion. However it is not visible due the hills.

    I renamed the name of Esztergom to Esztergam as I discovered it was the older name of the city.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    The Holy Right Hand, a hungarian relic additon to the game.
    http://historicaltextarchive.com/hungary/hand.html
    Convert the picture to .tga.

    ;------------------------------------------
    Ancillary holy_right_hand
    Type Relic
    Transferable 1
    Image holy_right_hand.tga
    ExcludeCultures middle_eastern, mesoamerican
    Description holy_right_hand_desc
    EffectsDescription holy_right_hand_effects_desc
    Effect Piety 1
    Effect Command 1


    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger holy_right_hand_anc_trigger
    WhenToTest GeneralCaptureSettlement
    Condition Attribute Piety > 3
    and SettlementName Varad
    ;We hope the city appears on your map
    and not I_WorldwideAncillaryExists holy_right_hand
    and not HasAncType Relic

    AcquireAncillary holy_right_hand chance 10



    ¬---------------

    {holy_right_hand} Holy Right Hand

    {holy_right_hand_desc}
    Saint Stephen was the first Hungarian king who defeated the pagan Magyars and leaded the people to the Christianity founding Kingdom of Hungary. The Holy Right Hand is the relic of this wise, strong and pious ruler.

    {holy_right_hand_desc}
    +1 Piety, +1 Command
    Last edited by Csatádi; August 30, 2012 at 08:42 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    Magyar roster to the 9th-10th centuries

    "... Now we'll speak about the system and order of the Turkics (that's how the Magyars are called in the Tactics), who have little or no difference from those of the Bulgars. This tribe is numerous and free-loving and has only one care, neglecting all other comforts and prosperity - to show courage against its enemies..."
    "... They are armed with swords, mails, bows and long spears. Due to this most of them have a double weaponry in the battles, by wearing their spears on their shoulders and holding their bows in hands, using one or the other, depending on the case they have at hand. When they are chased, they overcome mainly with their bows.
    Not only they themselves are armed, but also the horses of the notables are covered in front with iron or felt.
    They pay great care and practice a lot in shooting from their horses."

    Suggested army list:

    Cavalry:

    *Bők (Bodyguard unit) (metal scale or chainmail armor, round shield, longer spear and sabre) heavy horses with metal breastplate.
    *Válogatott harcosok (=chosen warriors) (good leather armor or chainmail, composite bow, sabre, small round shield) better unit. fast pony with mainly felt breastplate
    *Ínek (leather or no armor, composite bow, short spear, 2m)
    *Válogatott kabarok (=chosen Kabars) (leather scale armor or chainmail, composite bow, sabre, small round shield) better unit
    *Kabarok (from the 3 allied Khazar tribes) (composite bow, small maces, maybe shield)
    *Csikósok (=Wranglers) (young boys, composite bow, war-axe) instead of peasants

    Spear, war-axe and small maces were the cheaper weapons. Spears were about 2 meters long.

    Infantry:
    Dismounted version of cavalry units

    30% of the cavalry should be Kabar. They were 3 Khazar tribes.
    Magyar and other steppe settlements should be without walls this way they can defend them with cavalry.

    ZOR in the Carpathian basin, mainly in the Lowlands (near Várad). Their number should be one tenth compared to the Magyar army (Magyars+Kabars)
    Székely lófők (Szekler “notables”) (good leather armor or chainmail, composite bow, sabre) better unit. fast pony with felt or leather breastplate
    Székelyek (=Szeklers) (composite bow, war axe, clothing or leather armor)

    You should use the armors which suits better to your game. If you follow Osprey and MTW you should add more metal armor to these guys, too. Helmets need leather or chain “nape protector”.


    They had a lot of horses so the horsemen should be cheap compared to the infantry. This can be an advantage compared to settled factions.
    Horses of Bodyguards and Válogatott vitézek: akhal teke http://www.akhalteke.org/web/karakum...tures!OpenView

    The names and the armaments may changed e.g. shields can be ignored.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: How to mod Hungary? general informations

    Name list to the 14th century
    I made it originally to the Tsardom mod which starts in 1345. It contains some Croatian names, too.
    In some cases you need to change the codes because of the different spellings. For example Maria is Mária in Hungary.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Male

    {Andras}András
    {Antal}Antal
    {Balazs}Balázs
    {Balint}Bálint
    {Benedek}Benedek
    {Bertalan}Bertalan
    {Boldizsar}Boldizsár
    {Ciko}Cikó
    {Csanad}Csanád
    {David}Dávid
    {Demeter}Demeter
    {Denes}Dénes
    {Detre}Detre
    {Dezso}Dezső
    {Dome}Döme
    {Domokos}Domokos
    {Dozsa}Dózsa
    {Endre}Endre
    {Ferenc}Ferenc
    {Frank}Frank
    {Fulop}Fülöp
    {Gergely}Gergely
    {Gyorgy}György**
    {Herman}Herman
    {Hervoja}Hervoja
    {Imre}Imre
    {Istvan}István***
    {Jakab}Jakab
    {Janos}János***
    {Kalman}Kálmán
    {Karoly}Károly
    {Lajos}Lajos
    {Laszlo}László
    {Lorand}Lóránd
    {Lorinc}Lőrinc
    {Lukacs}Lukács
    {Mate}Máté
    {Matko}Matko
    {Matyas}Mátyás
    {Mihaly}Mihály
    {Miklos}Miklós ****
    {Mladen}Mladen
    {Oliver}Olivér
    {Orban}Orbán
    {Pal}Pál
    {PeterM}Péter
    {Rajnald}Rajnald
    {Robert}Róbert
    {Sandor}Sándor
    {Sebestyen}Sebestyén
    {Simon}Simon
    {Szaniszlo}Szaniszló
    {Tamas}Tamás
    {Ulrik}Ulrik
    {Vilmos}Vilmos
    {Vince}Vince
    {Vlatko}Vlatko
    {Zsigmond}Zsigmond

    Female

    {AgnesM}Ágnes
    {Agota}Ágota
    {Anglis}Anglis
    {Anna}Anna***
    {Apollonia}Apollónia
    {Barbara}Barbara
    {Borbala}Borbála*
    {Brigitta}Brigitta
    {Cecilia}Cecília
    {Dorottya}Dorottya*
    {Drusiana}Drusiana
    {Erzsebet}Erzsébet**
    {Eva}Éva
    {Fruzsina}Fruzsina
    {Hedvig}Hedvig
    {Ildiko}Ildikó
    {Ilona}Ilona*
    {Jeronima}Jeronima
    {Judit}Judit
    {Julianna}Julianna
    {Katalin}Katalin******
    {Klara}Klára*
    {Krisztina}Krisztina
    {Lucia}Lucia
    {Magdolna}Magdolna
    {Margit}Margit**
    {MariaM}Mária*
    {Medea}Médea
    {Orsolya}Orsolya
    {Polixena}Polixena
    {Potenciana}Potenciána
    {Sara}Sára
    {Veronika}Veronika
    {Zsofia}Zsófia*
    {Zsuzsanna}Zsuzsanna

    Family

    {Balassa}Balassa
    {Banfi}Bánfi
    {Bathory}Báthory
    {Bebek}Bebek
    {Cillei}Cillei
    {Csaki}Csáki
    {Csuz}Csúz
    {Czudar}Czudar
    {Debreceni}Debreceni
    {Drugeth}Drugeth
    {Forgach}Forgách
    {Frankopan}Frankopan
    {Garai}Garai
    {Gereb}Geréb
    {Giletfi}Gilétfi
    {Gonyu}Gönyű
    {Hedervari}Hédervári
    {Horvati}Horváti
    {Hrvatinic}Hrvatinic
    {Ilosvai}Ilosvai
    {Kanizsai}Kanizsai
    {Kaplai}Kaplai
    {Kompolti}Kompolti
    {Kont}Kont
    {Lackfi}Lackfi
    {Losonczi}Losonczi
    {Locsei}Lőcsei
    {Marcali}Marcali
    {Maroti}Maróti
    {Nadasdy}Nádasdy
    {Nagymartoni}Nagymartoni
    {Nekcsei}Nekcsei
    {Orszagh}Guti Országh
    {Ozorai}Ozorai
    {Paksi}Paksi
    {Palizsna}Palizsna
    {Paloczi}Pálóczi
    {Perenyi}Perényi
    {Petenye}Petenye
    {Peto}Pető
    {Pomazi}Pomázi
    {Rozgonyi}Rozgonyi
    {Sirokai}Sirokai
    {Stibor}Stibor
    {Subic}Šubić
    {Szecsenyi}Szécsényi
    {Szecsi}Szécsi
    {Szentgyorgyi}Szentgyörgyi
    {Szepesi}Szepesi
    {Szilagyi}Szilágyi
    {Telegdi}Telegdi
    {Thalloczi}Thallóczi
    {Treutel}Treutel
    {Ujlaki}Újlaki
    {Zambo}Zámbó
    {Zrinyi}Zrínyi
    {Zsamboki}Zsámboki


    *These names should be multipled in descr_names.txt because they were extremely popular. Every * should mean an extra slot.

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