Chertoff: home-grown terrorism on the rise in Europe

[HorseArcher]

"I have to say the biggest threat comes from overseas, and one of the places we are increasingly worried about is Europe "

-Michael Chertoff
Homeland Security Secretary

One of the biggest threats to US security may now come from within Europe, US Homeland Security head Michael Chertoff has told the BBC.

He said militant attacks and plots in Europe over recent years had made the US aware of the "real risk that Europe will become a platform for terrorists".

Mr Chertoff said it was likely security checks on travelers from Europe would be increased.

But he said steps would be taken to ensure travel and trade were not hit.

In the interview on the BBC's World News America, Mr Chertoff said he had seen "home-grown terrorism begin to rise in Europe".

full article

I just want to know what Europeans think of these statements coming from the US Homeland Security Secretary.

Is Europe really this bad?
USA should fear, that terrorists might immigrate to USA from Europe?

[jankren]

Hmm, America is so paranoid of everybody that they probably wish they could move to a separate planet of their own.

[LegioFornicatio]

Hmm, America is so paranoid of everybody that they probably wish they could move to a separate planet of their own.

Actually, we just wish everybody else would move off this planet

[Markas]

Actually, we just wish everybody else would move off this planet

Hands up everyone in the world who would rather Americans move off the planet rather than everyone else.

There, democracy in action.

[LegioFornicatio]

Hands up everyone in the world who would rather Americans move off the planet rather than everyone else.

There, democracy in action.

self defense in action


All kidding aside, I do not wish everyone else would leave the planet.

[LordEdmundBlackadder]

US Border Officials confiscated my British passport for around half an hour.

I am not returning to the US.

[LegioFornicatio]

US Border Officials confiscated my British passport for around half an hour.

I am not returning to the US.

Thats most unfortunate. Can you tell us how this happened?

[LordEdmundBlackadder]

Thats most unfortunate. Can you tell us how this happened?

Driving through, they told us (my mother and my brother) to get out and go into this white building. Fair enough. They asked for our passports, we showed them.

They didn't hand them back. They just put them on a cabinet behind the counter. We asked repeatedly that our passports be returned, and they consistently refused with absolutely no reasoning or justification. By this point, I was actually quite keen on just turning around and going home. So, we told them we no longer had any interest in going to the US, but they still would not return the passports.

About half an hour later, they called us up and gave them back.


I've travelled to a lot of countries. I have never had my passport taken against my will. Ever. Even in Turkmenistan.

[Burnum]

Its the moderates who by default, support the radicals.

How does someone support something by default? is it like since if you're a white Christian American does that mean you support the KKK, by default?

Thats the most dangerous aspect of radical Islam, it benefits from the support of moderate Muslims.

How?

That is what is particularly worrisome about Europe,

What's particularly worrisome is not Radical Islam, but the Rise of white supremacy in Europe. (again)

where Muslims have always banded together in the poorer sections of the some of the world great cities.

How is this different than any of the other Poor ethnic groups?

Radical Islam lives and breathes there, and its supported by the those who would never take to violence in support of their religion, but also turn a blind eye to what is happening in their own backyard.

Seriously, we've heard this before.

There are Muslim Sociologists who declare themselves Islamic-realists

David duke calls him self a Racial realist.

[mrmouth]

How does someone support something by default? is it like since if you're a white Christian American does that mean you support the KKK, by default?

If the KKK existed with the support of the communities they called home, that would be support by default. They exist because of free speech, and unless they commit crimes, there is nothing anyone can do about them.

The same goes for radicals. You can hate the West all you want, its when you actively plot against it that you are no longer protected by free speech, and in fact a criminal.

Radical Islam feeds on the brotherhood created in Islam itself. Do you actually think that the citizens of these communities in Europe have no idea where the radical preaching is going on? Who among them might be considered more radical than the others? These people know plenty, and then act astonished when their neighbor throws hand grenades at police like that young man did in North Amsterdam. His entire family knew he was radical, yet they couldn't be charged because they didn't know he was plotting anything.

What's particularly worrisome is not Radical Islam, but the Rise of white supremacy in Europe.

Yeah, hate like that is scary. Its not nice to be beaten up on the street. As far as I know they are not guilty of any mass murder though.

How is this different than any of the other Poor ethnic groups?

Radical Islam?? A history of living under colonial rule??

Seriously, we've heard this before.

You've also seen it before. Its not just some theory.

David duke calls him self a Racial realist.

Ok...

[s.rwitt]

Well, all kidding aside, I don't think anyone can deny that there has been a recent (as in the past few years) rise in the recruitment by radical Muslim groups as well as the outspokeness of such groups in the West in general, but particularly in Europe.

[mrmouth]

I don't think anyone can deny that there has been a recent (as in the past few years) rise in the recruitment by radical Muslim groups as well as the outspokeness of such groups in the West in general, but particularly in Europe.

Give it time, they will come.

Europeans don't want to see it. They don't believe the children of Muslim immigrants who lived under colonialism might use that as an excuse to become enraged. After all, these are completely rational people we are talking about.

They don't want to believe that Muslims immigrants don't feel truly a part of the society they immigrate to. Yet there are plenty of undercover videos coming out of European Mosques where the man shouting says exactly that, along with the whole colonialism bit.

Perhaps most frightening of all is that these Mosques remain open and business as usual continues.

All you have to do is look at the long history, going back nearly half a century, of radical Muslims coming out of Europe itself, or using it as one giant safe house while they plan attacks.

The mass immigration of Muslims to Europe was an unintended consequence of post-World War II guest-worker programs. Backed by friendly politicians and sympathetic judges, foreign workers, who were supposed to stay temporarily, benefited from family reunification programs and became permanent. Successive waves of immigrants formed a sea of descendants. Today, Muslims constitute the majority of immigrants in most western European countries, including Belgium, France, Germany, and the Netherlands, and the largest single component of the immigrant population in the United Kingdom. Exact numbers are hard to come by because Western censuses rarely ask respondents about their faith. But it is estimated that between 15 and 20 million Muslims now call Europe home and make up four to five percent of its total population. (Muslims in the United States probably do not exceed 3 million, accounting for less than two percent of the total population.) France has the largest proportion of Muslims (seven to ten percent of its total population), followed by the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and Italy. Given continued immigration and high Muslim fertility rates, the National Intelligence Council projects that Europe's Muslim population will double by 2025.

Unlike their U.S. counterparts, who entered a gigantic country built on immigration, most Muslim newcomers to western Europe started arriving only after World War II, crowding into small, culturally homogenous nations. Their influx was a new phenomenon for many host states and often unwelcome. Meanwhile, North African immigrants retained powerful attachments to their native cultures. So unlike American Muslims, who are geographically diffuse, ethnically fragmented, and generally well off, Europe's Muslims gather in bleak enclaves with their compatriots: Algerians in France, Moroccans in Spain, Turks in Germany, and Pakistanis in the United Kingdom.

The footprint of Muslim immigrants in Europe is already more visible than that of the Hispanic population in the United States. Unlike the jumble of nationalities that make up the American Latino community, the Muslims of western Europe are likely to be distinct, cohesive, and bitter. In Europe, host countries that never learned to integrate newcomers collide with immigrants exceptionally retentive of their ways, producing a variant of what the French scholar Olivier Roy calls "globalized Islam": militant Islamic resentment at Western dominance, anti-imperialism exalted by revivalism.

As the French academic Gilles Kepel acknowledges, "neither the blood spilled by Muslims from North Africa fighting in French uniforms during both world wars nor the sweat of migrant laborers, living under deplorable living conditions, who rebuilt France (and Europe) for a pittance after 1945, has made their children ... full fellow citizens." Small wonder, then, that a radical leader of the Union of Islamic Organizations of France, a group associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, curses his new homeland: "Oh sweet France! Are you astonished that so many of your children commune in a stinging naal bou la France [**** France], and damn your Fathers?"

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/200507...y-muslims.html

[LegioFornicatio]

Give it time, they will come.

Europeans don't want to see it. They don't believe the children of Muslim immigrants who lived under colonialism might use that as an excuse to become enraged. After all, these are completely rational people we are talking about.

They don't want to believe that Muslims immigrants don't feel truly a part of the society they immigrate to. Yet there are plenty of undercover videos coming out of European Mosques where the man shouting says exactly that, along with the whole colonialism bit.

Perhaps most frightening of all is that these Mosques remain open and business as usual continues.

All you have to do is look at the long history, going back nearly half a century, of radical Muslims coming out of Europe itself, or using it as one giant safe house while they plan attacks.

From what I have read there has been a bit of a backlash and anti-immigration politicians have gained ground. Geert Wilders comes to mind.

I truly feel bad for moderate muslims who are going to be attacked from both sides.

[s.rwitt]

Europeans don't want to see it.

It does seem that way.

All you have to do is look at the long history

Or the more recent history, considering the (terrorist related) events in the UK, Spain, France, Denmark, and Germany.

I truly feel bad for moderate muslims who are going to be attacked from both sides.

So do I, and that is why, in my oppinion, they need to be some of the first to speak out against the nutcases that actually plan and go through with these protests/speeches/attacks. Make it obvious that the vast majority of Muslims DO NOT agree with the ones that are so outspoken.

Like these guys (whose type seems to be too few and too far between):

http://www.reformislam.org/

Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy. Twenty-first century Muslims have two options: we can continue the barbaric policies of the seventh century perpetuated by Hassan al-Banna, Abdullah Azzam, Yassir Arafat, Ruhollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, etc., leading to a global war between Dar al-Islam (Islamic World) and Dar al-Harb (non-Islamic World), or we can reform Islam to keep our rich cultural heritage and to cleanse our religion from the reviled relics of the past. We, as Muslims who desire to live in harmony with people of other religions, agnostics, and atheists choose the latter option. We can no longer allow Islamic extremists to use our religion as a weapon. We must protect future generations of Muslims from being brainwashed by the Islamic radicals.

http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/terrorism.php

The Free Muslims Coalition believes that there can NEVER be a justification for terrorism.

The Coalition believes that fundamentalist Islamic terror represents one of the most lethal threats to the stability of the civilized world. The existence of Islamic terrorists is the existence of threats to democracy. There is no room for terrorism in the modern world and the United States should take a no-tolerance stance on terrorism in order to avoid another tragedy, along the lines of 9-11. With the added threat of biochemical weapons, the call to defeat terrorism has never been so urgent.

http://www.rayhawk.com/classics/matusa/home.html

Muslims AGAINST Terrorism was founded in the wake of the tragedy of September 11th by a group of young American Muslims. Our goal is to honor the loss of the thousands who were senselessly killed by working to ensure that it never happens again. We stand, as Muslims, against all forms of terrorism in all parts of the world

Ironically [?] all three of these groups (and the only ones of their nature on the first three pages of Google "Muslims Against" are base in America.

[LegioFornicatio]

So do I, and that is why, in my oppinion, they need to be some of the first to speak out against the nutcases that actually plan and go through with these protests/speeches/attacks. Make it obvious that the vast majority of Muslims DO NOT agree with the ones that are so outspoken.

Agreed.
But they know they will get it far worse from radical muslims than from any right wing politician. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, for example, has to have round the clock protection. I can understand why they are afraid to speak out.

[s.rwitt]

Well then I guess they can't complain about people misunderstanding Islam.

When all you see is the outspoken radicals and no one actually FROM the religon standing up to them, what are you supposed to believe (assuming that the only contact you have with Muslims is through the media of course).

[antares24]

"I have to say the biggest threat comes from overseas, and one of the places we are increasingly worried about is Europe "

-Michael Chertoff
Homeland Security Secretary




full article

I just want to know what Europeans think of these statements coming from the US Homeland Security Secretary.

Is Europe really this bad?
USA should fear, that terrorists might immigrate to USA from Europe?

this isn't fresh news, i remember reading an article on newsweek, some months ago, about the fact that british intelligence was worried of the fact that al qaida was training british born muslims in the afghan/pakistan border to sent them back to england to act as instructor/recruiter for wannabie terrorists.
Chertoff assertion however is a big generalization, first, as many americans, he have to learn that Europe is not a single country. There have been attacks in Spain and Britain only.
There are big muslim communities in France that recently were rioting, but no one of them has yet blow himself up, their rioting, while really worring, was not religiously motivated.
And in the other countries there have been a lot of arrests and every mosque and muslim cultural centre is under close look by our police forces, so this is not a problem that is not taken seriously here.

Apart from this is not true that Europeans don't want to see this, everyone don't like muslim radicals and wish them be deported (and before someone jump on me i have said "muslims radicals" not muslims in generals LOL PC in action), but we don't grab these people en mass and put them in prison (a là guantanamo) we put them on trial and wait for the judges decision, just a pair of weeks ago another radical imam was deported from my country.

Oh and the biggest source of immigration in western europe is eastern europe, not muslims countries as someone say in previous posts, and across the continent there isn't a country in wich talk about new immigration laws isn't in course.

[Hansa]

First of all, I find it hard to take anyone who warns of an increased terror danger based on a ''gut feeling'' seriously. And Chertoff has done this several times.

Secondly as the poster above wrote, this is generalizing Europe enormousy. I don't think there is any imminent danger of a terror attack in the vast majority of European countries, I bet the Balts and Poles worry though as their combined Moslem population is about 3 persons. As stated above, only Spain and England have been affected, (Van Gogh in the Netherlands could be added) and if I remember correctly the combined death toll in all these operations are about 200 dead over years among a population of ore than 700 million. And Europeans are conserned by Moslem terrorism (not me personally though). For most Europeans, who are reasonably rational people, Islamic fundamentalism is not something to loose sleep over, one is far more likely to get killed by cancer, cars, the flu, bad cooking, lightning and Brown and Polar bears(i). The few countries affected by Moslem terrrorism generally have a history of dealing with terror, comitted by far, far more competent enemies than a few nutcases unable to interpret the Koran in a logical way.

In a few Western European countries, there is a minor threat to individual citizens being posed by Islamic terrorism, for most countries its nothing to worry about. We have a couple of questionable persons in my country, but we don't worry. One or two Moslem agents and a couple of hidden mics from our security police and everything fine.

(i)The latter probably a more pressing consern in Scandinavia than London for instance.

[s.rwitt]

Umm.... He never said an attack was imminent.

But your post is an excellent example of what I said in my earlier post, about Europeans not taking the issue seriously even after several successful attacks (and by natives on top of that), as well as the uncovering of multiple other planned attacks.

[Hansa]

Umm.... He never said an attack was imminent.

Nevertheless, my point was that any upper official that warns of increased threats from terrorists based on gut feelings, and hunches, have little credibility in my book.

But your post is an excellent example of what I said in my earlier post, about Europeans not taking the issue seriously even after several successful attacks (and by natives on top of that), as well as the uncovering of multiple other planned attacks.

Well, what am I supposed to do? Go around worrying? Questioning any ''brown'' person I see. Thanks but I have better things to do with my time. And in my country there hasn't been any serious incidents and the police seem on top of things. Why worry?

Do Americans worry much about non-moslem home grown terrorism? A certain Timothy McVeigh springs to mind among others. No one has ever died in any terrorist attack in my country, no serious terrorist plot has been foiled that had anything to do with modern Islamic fundamentalism. Police forces all over Europe are looking at Moslem extermists with far more vigilance than before, apparently within the framework given by the laws of different countries. For me thats enough.