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Thread: Historical Battles

  1. #1
    Sarmatian's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Historical Battles

    Hi guys, historical battles for Tsardoms is an idea we've been tossing around for some time. It would be nice to have some historical battles to add more flavour to the mod. The thing with is, we're busy with doing other stuff, but instead of dropping the idea altogether, we decided to give everybody a chance to contribute, so that we could put them in some later versions. The more research gets done, the easier for us to include them.

    This is the potential list of the battles. Now, this doesn't mean that all of them are going to get in, but this list covers more or less all important battles of the timeframe and region.

    Velbuzhd (1331)
    Maritza (1371)
    Kosovo (1389)
    Nicopolis (1394)
    Ankara (1402)
    Varna (1444)
    siege of Constantinople (1453)
    siege of Belgrade (1456)
    Vaslui (1475)
    siege of Rhodes (1522)
    Mohacz (1526)
    siege of Vienna (1529)

    So this is it. Your chance to contribute with research and help us make Tsardoms to be the best mod for a TW game ever.


  2. #2
    alien_t's Avatar В Съединението е Силата
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Varna (1444):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Varna

    Velbuzhd (1331):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velbuzhd

    Kosovo (1389):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo

    New idea
    Battle of Rusokastro(July 18, 1332):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rusokastro

    Also here you can find good ideas for other historical battles:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian-Ottoman_Wars
    Bulgaria: Total War - Mod For M2TW
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    "...We are Bulgarians and and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve" - Gotse Delchev, Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian question, Victor Roudometof, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2002, ISBN 0275976483, p. 79.

    "The Bulgarians, these are the people, who had everything they wished for. A nation, where the one who buys the nobility with the blood of the enemy receives titles..." - Magnus Felix Ennodius, description of battle at Margus
    (Morava) river 505 AD





  3. #3

    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Yes!!!! Mohaç !!!!! 2 hours and 175.000 hungarian were dead! A war that won the fastest ever!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Historical Battles

    ^I take issue with that post. I think we should all be a bit more respectful for the people that died in these battles. I don't think it is right to take joy in the death of hundreds of thousands of people. It is fun to play these battles to recreate history or to change it, but I don't think we should get perverse pleasure out of it. In any case I mean no offense and I hope you didn't either.
    Last edited by zznɟ ǝɥʇ; January 17, 2008 at 09:06 AM.

  5. #5
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiR TimuR View Post
    Yes!!!! Mohaç !!!!! 2 hours and 175.000 hungarian were dead! A war that won the fastest ever!
    I am more disturbed then offended...
    γνῶθι σεαυτόν ~ μηδὲν ἄγαν

  6. #6
    Matthæus's Avatar Knez Bribirski
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    not to mention that number of 175.000 is totally wrong.

    if there actually were 175.000 strong Hungarian army on Mohacs Ottomans would not win.
    Last edited by Matthæus; January 18, 2008 at 11:11 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Don't be disturbed or offended. Both of rivals were Turks. Hun Turks and Ottoman Turks, so they were both fool to fight with each other. Both of them deserve nothing, except death.

  8. #8
    Sarmatian's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Well Amir, the Hunnic origin of the Hungarians is debatable, as is the turkish origin of the Hunns. Not enough is known about the Hunns, they might have been mongols just as well.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Historical Battles

    No my friend, They were Hun Turks. I have read a lot. Even some sources say that Huns were German or so They are just funny stories. Hungary is just the thing that has left from Huns.
    Also As you know, Bulgars were relative with Turks, they had Khans and we called them as Turic nation but they also lost their identities. Religion is the most important factor that affects identity for races. Also Avars were Turic nation too and they affected the destiny of Balkans a lot.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Historical Battles

    the list looks good. here is another famous battle:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Szigetvar

  11. #11
    Sarmatian's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    It's 35 years after the mod ends...

    Wikipedia isn't really a good source for this sort of stuff. These battles were important and are more or less well documented, so wikipedia usually gives good acounts of the, but it is not detailed enough. Osprey has some books that deals with a few of those battles, that would be a good place to start...


  12. #12

    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Sorry about that...

  13. #13
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiR TimuR View Post
    No my friend, They were Hun Turks. I have read a lot. Even some sources say that Huns were German or so They are just funny stories. Hungary is just the thing that has left from Huns.
    Also As you know, Bulgars were relative with Turks, they had Khans and we called them as Turic nation but they also lost their identities. Religion is the most important factor that affects identity for races. Also Avars were Turic nation too and they affected the destiny of Balkans a lot.
    Cool, another Pan-Turkicist! Now we need a Macedonist and an Afrocentrist!

    Btw, Sarmatian, at least Varna and Nikopolis would need "some" Western units for them. Would Tzardoms:TW have enough Western units for such battles? True, Varna could eventually have only the Hungarians (without the Poles and the others), but Nikopolis could hardly do without the French (one of the reasons why the Crusaders failed).

  14. #14
    Sarmatian's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Yeah, I know. We'll manage somehow, don't worry... For now research is important.


  15. #15
    The_Bulgar_Slayer's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Quote Originally Posted by NikeBG View Post
    Cool, another Pan-Turkicist! Now we need a Macedonist and an Afrocentrist!

    Btw, Sarmatian, at least Varna and Nikopolis would need "some" Western units for them. Would Tzardoms:TW have enough Western units for such battles? True, Varna could eventually have only the Hungarians (without the Poles and the others), but Nikopolis could hardly do without the French (one of the reasons why the Crusaders failed).
    There should be enough Western units for these battles. Naples will definitely have some French units as well as Spanish, Italian and German because of the Condottieri. Venice, Athens, and the HRE(Austria) will have many Western units as well. There may be some Polish mercs available too for some factions, like Hungary.
    Last edited by The_Bulgar_Slayer; January 19, 2008 at 10:05 AM.

    Official Byzantine Historian for Tzardoms:Total War

  16. #16
    NikeBG's Avatar Sampsis
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Cool, that's going to be great then!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Vaslui was actually fought by Stephen the Great of Moldavia, which while it could be represented by Wallachia, should be substituted in for a battle actually fought by the Wallachians. I will try to find some decent substitutes.

  18. #18
    Zivica's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    How will you make Maritza? Serbian forces were attacked while they were sleeping right?
    ''I say...**** chemistry.''
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  19. #19

    Icon7 Re: Historical Battles

    I've read about Maritza..It says,that Serbians began to drink and celebrate the victory,before the battle was on..

  20. #20
    Milos98's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Historical Battles

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiR TimuR View Post
    Yes!!!! Mohaç !!!!! 2 hours and 175.000 hungarian were dead! A war that won the fastest ever!
    175,000!!! Wow, the whole eastern europe couldnt rise a professional army of 200.000 in that time!
    Regards, Milos98

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