Faction - Principality of Wallachia

[ShockBlast]

So intense arguments.
Gz for the fast work.

[Romano-Dacis]

Actually, I have a question for any well-educated person. We currently have a Romanian unit called "strajeri" which is the "town watch" type unit. However, I was wondering if it would be more appropriate to call them "globnici" since these people were technically like the "public order" guys who helped the mayor/jude/whatever collect taxes and hand out punishments.

Personally, I would still stick with "strajeri" since it literally means "guards" and that term refers more to a militia than "globnici" which are more like "taxmen." Your thoughts, anyone?

[Domnul Ceaşcă]

"Strajeri" sounds more appropiate.

[moarteainvacanta]

hi guys, i want to tell you i'm awaiting this mod with great interest, and so far TTW is looking awesome!

[ShockBlast]

Actually, I have a question for any well-educated person. We currently have a Romanian unit called "strajeri" which is the "town watch" type unit. However, I was wondering if it would be more appropriate to call them "globnici" since these people were technically like the "public order" guys who helped the mayor/jude/whatever collect taxes and hand out punishments.

Personally, I would still stick with "strajeri" since it literally means "guards" and that term refers more to a militia than "globnici" which are more like "taxmen." Your thoughts, anyone?

Strajeri sounds better and no one likes taxmen anyway.

[Cronos Impera]

Hi everyone.
I am Cronos Impera from the .Org.
Shame you closed the boutique there. Oh well.....

I'm 1/4 Polish, 1/4 Ukranian and 1/2 Romanian so I guess I'm preety neutral when it comes to Romanian history.

You could script the recognition of the Wallachian Orthodox Church by sending an emmisary to Constantinopole. At first the Orthodox Church wasn't recognised by Constantinopole but later recieved full credentials, allowing Wallachian monks to Mt. Athos and exchanges in holy icons.

[Romano-Dacis]

Good advice. The acknowledgement of the metropolitanate of Wallachia by the Byzantine church in 1359 was one of the key events in the consolidation of Wallachia's independence. We will probably at least mention it as a historical event if we don't script something for it.

[snipa]

hi guys, no offence just a question:

The name "tara Româneasca" means "Romanian land," here, actually "Walachia"; the word "Walachia" is derived from the Slavic word vlach, which is related to the Germanic walh, meaning "foreigner."

i found it here: http://workmall.com/wfb2001/romania/..._moldavia.html

so vlach mean foreigner ?

[vilil]

...the word "Walachia" is derived from the Slavic word vlach, which is related to the Germanic walh, meaning "foreigner."

i found it here: http://workmall.com/wfb2001/romania/..._moldavia.html

so vlach mean foreigner ?

Not true. Vlah, on Slavic mean "herdsman". (shepherd-cowboy...)

[Romano-Dacis]

That's actually a recent phenommenon. Vlach also means "Serb" to Croatians because both people are Orthodox Christians, and it also means "peasant" or "countryman" in Greek. The original derivation is from the tribe Volcae, which was a Romanized celtic tribe. The Romans refered to them as volcae and the Germans refered to them as "Walch", and they carried this word on to other Romanized people, or those who they percieved as having Roman influence (Walloons, Welsch etc.). In the East this term was adopted by the Slavs, who again used it for Romanized populations. snipa is right in saying it is derived from a word meaning "foreigner" but more specifically "latin-speaking foreigner". That's why the Poles refer to Italians as "Wlochy" and to Romanians as "Wolochy." There is a similar case with Hungarians using Olasz/Olah. In order for it to have originally meant "heardsman" it would have to be derived from the word sheep (e.g. in Romanian, "oaie" = sheep, "oier" = shepherd). With most Slavic words for sheep being "ovczy" we can see that this derivation is impossible.

With regards to Wallachia/Tara Romaneasca name, we decided to use "tara romaneasca" since Wallachia was an exonym, the same reason why we chose Magyar Királyság instead of Regnum Hungariae.

[speedyvm]

Agree with Romano-Dacis.
The term of Wallachia it is indeed a popular one outside of these borders , but not authentically used by local people, and here we are talking about peasants, noble people, writers from those times, etc. It was and still is a very well known this name of Ţara Românească in Romania and I am glad to see it as a faction name, in my opinion it is the most proper option. Thank you.

[vilil]

In order for it to have originally meant "heardsman" it would have to be derived from the word sheep (e.g. in Romanian, "oaie" = sheep, "oier" = shepherd). With most Slavic words for sheep being "ovczy" we can see that this derivation is impossible.

In medieval Serbia-Croatia, Vlah meant heardsman. Not only shepherd, or only a cowherd-boy, but catleman.

[snipa]

Thanx for all responses!

I try to summarize...
if i good understand:
- the vlachs' profession was shepherd (cowherd-boy, heardsman) in early medieval time
- when they appear in a land they was named like "vlach and similar variants" (which probably mean: foreigner, shepherd, cowherd-boy, heardsman etc...) by local people cause of their profession or religion

is it correct?

Btw how was named Tara Romaneasca/Wallachia in 14th c. by vlach's records? So how they called their country in their own language?

[speedyvm]

Thanx for all responses!

I try to summarize...
if i good understand:
- the vlachs' profession was shepherd (cowherd-boy, heardsman) in early medieval time
- when they appear in a land they was named like "vlach and similar variants" (which probably mean: foreigner, shepherd, cowherd-boy, heardsman etc...) by local people cause of their profession or religion

is it correct?

Btw how was named Tara Romaneasca/Wallachia in 14th c. by vlach's records? So how they called their country in their own language?

Not only shepards, there were feudal structures in these regions too, so we also can speak about farmers, merchants, etc.
In 14th century they called their countryŢara Românească or Ţeara Românească, I think the second form is more appropriate. The first for is still in use in present day, these people has "deep rooted".

[Romano-Dacis]

The problem with "their own records" is that like in all (or most) countries at the time the native language was not the one of the court. As such, the exonym persisted in internal documents written in old Slavonic. However, when we get documents written in what is recognizably Romanian, the name "teara Romaneasca" is used. Furthermore, even before we find documents written in the native language, we gain plenty of insight from humanists and travellers and others that the "vlachs" actually used the name "roman" for themselves.

speedyvm is right about the professions. Although being herdsmen became one of the stereotypical professions, there were others as well. Many vlachs in Bosnia and other places became wealthy by providing protection to merchant caravans for example. My personal opinion is that the vlachs who had been there earlier were marginalized and pushed into the less fertile foothills by the Slavs. Therefore many vlachs became herdsmen. However, we should not think of this as an exclusive occupation; there is plenty of archaeological evidence of terraced foothills in the regions populated by vlachs historically, showing these people did practice farming, even if it became harder for them.

when they appear in a land they was named like "vlach and similar variants" (which probably mean: foreigner, shepherd, cowherd-boy, heardsman etc...) by local people cause of their profession or religion

The term "vlach" was as I mentioned originally describing an ethnicity, and only much later stereotyped with a profession. I would put the evolution of the term as such:
ethnicity (6th-12th century) -> profession (13th-16th century) -> all other meanings, peasant, orthodox christian etc. (17th-20th century).

I hope this has clarified it.

[vilil]

speedyvm is right about the professions. Although being herdsmen became one of the stereotypical professions, there were others as well. Many vlachs in Bosnia and other places became wealthy by providing protection to merchant caravans for example. My personal opinion is that the vlachs who had been there earlier were marginalized and pushed into the less fertile foothills by the Slavs. Therefore many vlachs became herdsmen. However, we should not think of this as an exclusive occupation; there is plenty of archaeological evidence of terraced foothills in the regions populated by vlachs historically, showing these people did practice farming, even if it became harder for them.

What are Vlahs? Nation, tribe?

[Romano-Dacis]

What are Vlahs? Nation, tribe?

"vlach" is an umbrella term used to describe all Southern Balkan Latin people (Aromanians, Istroromanians, Meglenoromanians) and sometimes also used to describe Romanians. It is like the term "Southern Slav", used to group together people of a common or similar ethnicity. It is a grouping of several related ethnicities.

[snipa]

Not only shepards, there were feudal structures in these regions too, so we also can speak about farmers, merchants, etc.
In 14th century they called their countryŢara Românească or Ţeara Românească, I think the second form is more appropriate. The first for is still in use in present day, these people has "deep rooted".

well, i have to correct my last post, so their main profession was sepherd...

and how was called Moldavia? i think there was a same name like Ţara Românească <--> Wallachia, wasn't?

[vilil]

Is there any conections between Vlahs and Romanians. I know that Vlahs are only connected with Arbanas(Albanians).

[Baron Vlad Felix]

vilil bla bla bla....
What are Vlahs? Nation, tribe? it s romanian(Romano-Dacis) nations!!!!

Vlachs originate from the Romanized people of south-eastern Europe; from a mix of Roman colonists (from various Roman provinces) and indigenous peoples who were Romanized. The Vlach peoples from the south Balkans have generally been identified with the indigenous populations of Thracian and or Illyrian origin. Many Vlachs settled into the less-accessible mountainous areas of Greece and the northern Balkan region because of the Germanic and Avar-Slav invasions and immigration of the 5th-7th centuries.

Vlachs is a blanket term covering several modern Latin peoples descending from the Latinised population in Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe. It is also called Vallachians, Wallachians, Wlachs, Wallachs, Vlahs, Olahs or Ulahs; (Albanian: Vllenjë,Vllehë; Czech: Valaši; Greek: Βλάχοι Vláhi; Polish: Wołosi; South Slavic: Власи Vlasi; Turkish: Ulahlar; Ukrainian: Волохи Volokhy). Groups that have historically been called Vlachs include: modern-day Romanians, Aromanians, Morlachs, Megleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians. Since the creation of the Romanian state, the term in English has mostly been used for those living outside Romania.

The term "Vlach" is originally an exonym. All the Vlach groups used various words derived from romanus to refer to themselves: Români, Rumâni, Rumâri, Aromâni, Arumâni etc. (note: the Megleno-Romanians nowadays call themselves "Vlaşi", but historically called themselves "Rămâni"; The Istro-Romanians also have adopted the names Vlaşi, but still use Rumâni and Rumâri to refer to themselves).

Vlachs descend predominantly from the Romanised Dacians, Thracians and Illyrians, the indigenous populations of the Balkans, and Roman colonists (from various provinces of the Roman Empire).

The Vlach languages, also called the Eastern Romance languages, have a common origin from the Proto-Romanian language. Over the centuries, the Vlachs split into various Vlach groups (see Romania in the Dark Ages) and mixed with neighbouring populations: Slavs, Greeks, Albanians, Cumans, and others.

Almost all modern nations in Central and Southeastern Europe (Austria, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Ukraine, Serbia, Croatia, the Republic of Macedonia, Albania, Greece and Bulgaria.) have native Vlach minorities.
Wallachia ("Ungro-Wallachia" or"Wallachia Transalpina" in administrative sorces; "Ţara Românească" in Romanian Language) - between the Southern Carpathians and the Danube
Moldo-Wallachia ("Moldavia", Maurovlachia - "Black Wallachia", Moldovlachia or Ruso-Vlachia in Byzantine sources, Bogdan Iflak - "Bogdan's Wallachia", or even "Wallachia" in Polish sources, and "L`otra Wallachia" -the other Wallachia- in native sources) - between the Carpathians and the Nistru river.
Wallachia and Bulgaria - between the Danube and the Balkan Mountains
Great Wallachia ("Μεγάλη Βλαχία", Megáli Vlahía) - in Thessaly.
Regions:
Vlaşca - part of southern Wallachia
Greater Wallachia ("Muntenia") - east of the Olt river
Lower Wallachia ("Oltenia") - west of the Olt river
Walachia Cissalpina/Walachia citeriore (also called Vulaska, Vlaska,Valachia, Vlaskozemski, Parvan Vallachiam, etc.) - Banat
Upper Wallachia ("Άνω Βλαχία", Áno Vlahía) - in southern Macedonia and Epirus
The first record of a Balkan Romanic presence in the Byzantine period can be found in the writings of Procopius, in the 5th century. The writings mention forts with names such as Skeptekasas (Seven Houses), Burgulatu (Broad City), Loupofantana (Wolf's Well) and Gemellomountes (Twin Mountains). A Byzantine chronicle of 586 about an incursion against the Avars in the eastern Balkans may contain one of the earliest references to Vlachs. The account states that when the baggage carried by a mule slipped, the muleteer shouted, "Torna, torna, fratre!" ("Return, return, brother!"). However the account might just be a recording of one of the last appearances of Latin (Vulgar Latin).

Their more exact place of origin is hard to determine as they can be found all over the Balkan peninsula. Aromanians can be found in Greece, Bulgaria, Albania and the Republic of Macedonia, while Romanians in Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Serbia and Hungary. Their occupations were mostly trading, shepherding and craftsmanship. It is not known exactly when the Vlachs who were the ancestors of present day Aromanians broke off from the general body of Vlach people; historians point to a period between the 5th--9th Centuri

Blachernae, the suburb of Constantinople, was named after a certain Duke from Scythia named "Blachernos". His name may be linked with the name "Blachs" (Vlachs).

In the 10th century, the Hungarians arrived in the Pannonian plain, and, according to the Gesta Hungarorum written by an anonymous chancellor of King Bela III of Hungary, the plain was inhabited by Slavs, Bulgars, Vlachs and pastores Romanorum (shepherds of the Romans) (in original: sclauij, Bulgarij et Blachij, ac pastores romanorum). However, the chronicle was written around 1146.

In 1185, two noble brothers from Tarnovo named Peter and Asen led a Bulgarian revolt against Byzantine Greek rule and declared Tsar Peter II (also known as Theodore Peter) as king of the reborn state. The following year, the Byzantines were forced to recognize Bulgaria's independence. Peter styled himself "Tsar of the Bulgars, Greeks, and Vlachs" as did most subsequent rulers of the Second Bulgarian Empire (see Vlach-Bulgar Rebellion).
After the collapse of the Byzantine Empire in the Fourth Crusade, the numerous Aromanians (Valachians) of Thessaly and the southern regions of Macedonia and Epirus established their own state, and the area was known as Great Wallachia(Vlahia).Choniates wrote, between 1202 and 1214, that the Thessalian mountain region was called "Great Wallachia". After the establishment of the Latin Empire at Constantinople in 1204, Great Walachia was absorbed by the Greek Despotate of Epirus; later it was annexed by the Serbs, and in 1393 it fell to the Turks. Another Vlach region, called Little Walachia, was located in Aetolia and Acarnania(department in west central Greece).
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