Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

[snipa]

Eh i tried

Ive said ill make another map using the one that The Noble Lord presented
The administration goes like this:
1 Province: Macva-Bor, Town: Beograd
2 Province: Moravica, Town: Rasina
3 Province: Muntenegro, Town: Podgorica
4 Province: Kosovo, Town: Pristina
5 Province: Zajecar, Town: Pirot
6 Province: Albania, Town: Tirana
7 Province: Raska, Town Skopje
8 Province: Makedonia, Town: Tessaloniki
9 Province: Vlahia Velik, Town: Larrisa

i found this map for 1345!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Europe_in_1345.png

my oppinion u should decide that need more rebels or every provinces will be include to a state...
i think the best if u use more rebels because if there is no enough rebels we cant increase our state without war against other faction!

[Romano-Dacis]

Yes, we're already deciding on rebel regions. We will make regions which generally were more independent or prone to revolt as rebels. This will require a bit of research but we can get it done. For instance, Vlahia Velik in Thessaly was prone to revolts against the Byzantines, and even revolted against the Crusaders a century earlier, so it is quite possible that it will start out as a rebel province. Likewise for Bulgaria, we've made Dobruja independent since it was very prone to being autonomous.

[SrbLordMija]

My opinion is that you should make it how it was. It was like that then you can't expand with out war (IN THE BALKANS)!!!

[Matthæus]

we have quite a discussion here.

about serbian coa:
vizantinac - i understand that a question of coat of arms and flags is tricky in this period. but we have to put sometning - this game is designed that way - an "faction" must have a "faction symbol". aut of all possibilities we concluded that "red eagle-golden background" is the best. it will appear on some battlefield flags and shields but wont be overrepresented. it will be nicely mixed with other symbols and coats of arms of noble families.
PS - no 4C flags or coa will be presend in the mod
now this brings us to the question of authencity of coats of arms of other noble families. and again - we have to put something and we have to work with sources that we have even if they are suspicious at least. if you have any knowledge about coats of arms in "despotovina" period i would appreciate help.

about cavalry units - again after a lot of reading and discussing we concluded the following:
1. basic cavalry unit in early stage of the mod will be so called auxilia (sorry couldnt think of better name). this unit will look very "byzantine" with its scale and mail armour and open helmet. they will be armoured with spears and swords.
2. after upgrading your castles a bit you will have possibility to train "vlastela" (nobles). they will have plate armour protection for the arms and legs but not for torso. still open helmets and spears. after some time (around 1400) you will have possibility to upgrade their armour. now they will have full plate armour and look very west europeian (much like duke Hrvoje Vukcic in his armour, from neighbouring Bosnia).
3. in later stages of game you will get even stronger heavy cavalry unit - vitezovi (the knights - again im not 100% satisfied with the name). they will have better armour - an milanese armour (imported from italy via Dubrovnik) and look much like Orlando's statue in Dubrovnik. these guys will have lances +maces (and not spears) and probably some protection of the horses.
- there will ba allso a posibility that you upgrade their armour even more (a bit "what if" situation) and have an german gothic armour (if you manage to surive to the final stage to the game and have money to afford such an expensive equipment).

about the provinces
thanks for the effort but this we allready have all information we need. no further research is needed

[\Vazul's Ghost/]

we have quite a discussion here.

about serbian coa:
vizantinac - i understand that a question of coat of arms and flags is tricky in this period. but we have to put sometning - this game is designed that way - an "faction" must have a "faction symbol". aut of all possibilities we concluded that "red eagle-golden background" is the best. it will appear on some battlefield flags and shields but wont be overrepresented. it will be nicely mixed with other symbols and coats of arms of noble families.
PS - no 4C flags or coa will be presend in the mod
now this brings us to the question of authencity of coats of arms of other noble families. and again - we have to put something and we have to work with sources that we have even if they are suspicious at least. if you have any knowledge about coats of arms in "despotovina" period i would appreciate help.

about cavalry units - again after a lot of reading and discussing we concluded the following:
1. basic cavalry unit in early stage of the mod will be so called auxilia (sorry couldnt think of better name). this unit will look very "byzantine" with its scale and mail armour and open helmet. they will be armoured with spears and swords.
2. after upgrading your castles a bit you will have possibility to train "vlastela" (nobles). they will have plate armour protection for the arms and legs but not for torso. still open helmets and spears. after some time (around 1400) you will have possibility to upgrade their armour. now they will have full plate armour and look very west europeian (much like duke Hrvoje Vukcic in his armour, from neighbouring Bosnia).
3. in later stages of game you will get even stronger heavy cavalry unit - vitezovi (the knights - again im not 100% satisfied with the name). they will have better armour - an milanese armour (imported from italy via Dubrovnik) and look much like Orlando's statue in Dubrovnik. these guys will have lances +maces (and not spears) and probably some protection of the horses.
- there will ba allso a posibility that you upgrade their armour even more (a bit "what if" situation) and have an german gothic armour (if you manage to surive to the final stage to the game and have money to afford such an expensive equipment).

about the provinces
thanks for the effort but this we allready have all information we need. no further research is needed

Welcome back Matko! Its good to hear from you!

[The Noble Lord]

if you have any knowledge about coats of arms in "despotovina" period i would appreciate help.

I may be able to assist when it comes to that period. You are talking about the reign of the two despots, do you??
Despot Stefan and Despot Djuradj.

[Stakee]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...daries_CIA.jpg

Something usefull

[Matthæus]

i could use a little help:

Nikola Altomanović - does anyone konw how did his coat of arms look like ?
+ any coats of arms from period of "Despotovina"(except the 2 despots i have those )

[The Noble Lord]

i could use a little help:

Nikola Altomanović - does anyone konw how did his coat of arms look like ?
+ any coats of arms from period of "Despotovina"(except the 2 despots i have those )

I am in the middle of my research and this is what I've come up with so far.
The CoA of Nikola Altomanovic and Altomanovic family is very hard to find (for some reason).
But I am doing my best, I even contacted Heraldic Society in Belgrade for help. As for other families, can you give me the names of the families that you need for the mod and I'll get the CoA's as best as I can.


CHEERS

[Matthæus]

I am in the middle of my research and this is what I've come up with so far.
The CoA of Nikola Altomanovic and Altomanovic family is very hard to find (for some reason).
But I am doing my best, I even contacted Heraldic Society in Belgrade for help. As for other families, can you give me the names of the families that you need for the mod and I'll get the CoA's as best as I can.


CHEERS

well I'm not an expert for Serbian history but i know we need at least 2-3 coats of arms of noble families to put on shields of units that appear late in the game. Which families should that be I'm not sure.

[The Noble Lord]

well I'm not an expert for Serbian history but i know we need at least 2-3 coats of arms of noble families to put on shields of units that appear late in the game. Which families should that be I'm not sure.

Alright, here is some stuff that maybe of help to you.
The CoA's of noble families from the period of 1345-1530,
which is the time span of the mod.

Here they are:

Some Serbian ones:


Hrebeljanovic Coat of Arms


Jugovic Coat of Arms


Mrnjavcevic Coat of Arms


Obilic Coat of Arms


Brankovic Coat of Arms


Kosaca Coat of Arms


Balsic Coat of Arms


Oblacic Coat of Arms


Orlovic Coat of Arms


Rajkovic Coat of Arms


Some Bosnian ones:



Kotromanica Coat of Arms


Bakcic Coat of Arms


Bosnae


Another Kotromanjica Coat of Arms

And Croatian ones:


Dalmatia


Draxoevic Coat of Arms


Frankopan Coat of Arms


Krovatiae Coat of Arms


This stuff should be able to help, but I am doing my research and plenty more is coming. Its very peculiar fact that Altomanovic family Coat of Arms is hard to find, but I am expecting it from very good and reliable source. It should be posted in the next few days, I alarmed everybody and its all in motion now .


CHEERS

[Bosnae]

HEHEH LOL you also listed my COA

Bosnae!!!!!^^

[Ali G]

very nice and detailed Coats of arms. good job.

[The Noble Lord]

Just an update for the Altomanovic family coat of arms. I am still waiting for it and its coming up soon. I'll post it immediately as I get it.


CHEERS

[Ali G]

@TNL
can you please post some Bosnian coats of arms from that period, any you have. i want to see Bosnian noble families and how their CoAs looked like.
thanx.

[Bosnian_King]

@TNL
can you please post some Bosnian coats of arms from that period, any you have. i want to see Bosnian noble families and how their CoAs looked like.
thanx.

go to this site:

http://www.samostan.ba/photos/thumbnails.php?album=11

Kotromanovic, Kovacevic are some of the Bosnian families.

[Bosnian_King]

The half moon at the Bosnian coat of arms is not the simbol of Islam by the way..

It is the symbol of Ilirizam. Because many Bosnian families had Iliric roots they put this simbol on their coat of arms. This simbol we can also find on tombstones in Bosnia and i Albania too. But this simbol also present at the Croatian flag.

Greetings

[The Noble Lord]

@TNL
can you please post some Bosnian coats of arms from that period, any you have. i want to see Bosnian noble families and how their CoAs looked like.
thanx.

I will, as soon as I got all of them ready. I spend some time on Altomanovica Coat of Arms and there are some Bosnian Noble families that I am researching.
I tend to be very careful and will post something, only if it comes from fair and balanced sources that are 110% historically objective. As everyone knows, there is heaps of stuff out there, but plenty of it is bias and historically unreliable.

The half moon at the Bosnian coat of arms is not the simbol of Islam by the way..

Its obvious, there was no Islam in those regions at the time when those Coats of Arms were made. Islam only came later and brought Half Crescent
as its symbol. But origins of Half crescent symbol is quite intriguing.


CHEERS

[Baron Vlad Felix]

The half moon at the Bosnian coat of arms is not the simbol of Islam by the way..

It is the symbol of Ilirizam. Because many Bosnian families had Iliric roots they put this simbol on their coat of arms. This simbol we can also find on tombstones in Bosnia and i Albania too. But this simbol also present at the Croatian flag.

Greetings

It is not the symbol of Ilirizam.

[Matthæus]

It is not the symbol of Ilirizam.

yup it was. they thought (especially Lj.Gaj) that the crescent was a symbol of antic Illirians.