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Thread: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

  1. #21

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Dont forget that Serbia had wery good army in period just before battle of Kosovo.I think you shoud base on more western style units like french Noble Chavalry or English Knights.Yet the light cavalry shoud be more like russian troops Boyar Sons or Druzhina.Yet the infantry was mixed and you shoud make it something like Dismounted boyar sons, Varangian guard, Dismounted Knights and Sergeant Spearman.
    Bechause the chavalry was stronger i sugest you create a chavalry unit to be the unique one and call it something like Serbian Knights or Order of the Dragon of saint Djordje.You shoud think about creating a unit called Knights of death bechause they were formed after Kosovo battle to avenge prince Lazar (they actualy survived the battle).I'm holding fingers for this mode

  2. #22

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    It depends on the age. TTW symbol (double headed eagle on yellow background) is symbol of Tsar Dusan. They're all correct, just depends on the timeframe...
    Actualy the white eagle in red background is more acurate for medieval serbia...and this is his Coat of arms:


  3. #23
    The Noble Lord's Avatar Holy Arab Nation
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    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Hi,


    Its very interesting topic about the Serbian flag and COA thats gonna
    be presented in the mod.
    Because mod covers historical period of 1345-1530, all historical evidence points to the direction of red two-headed eagle on jellow field for the flag and
    white eagle on red background as coat of arms.



    CHEERS
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    أسد العراق Asad al-Iraq
    KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!!
    Under the proud patronage of the magnificent Tzar


  4. #24

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Yes that is quite resonable bechause Red eagle in yellow background was used as flag in period when Dushan Nemanjich was tsar , but in the coat of arms was always used White one in red background.
    As i coud see in some faction symbols you used their flags (Turkey,Austria,Byzantine,Bosnia) and in others you used their coat of arms (Hungary,Bulgaria,Walachia).
    I woud like to see all those flags when the unit is fully improoved,and hope thay will be in all those red,white and gold collors,with double headed eagles,crosses,ocils and other Serbian vlastela symbols.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    I woud just like to ask one more thing in favor of my respect of my ancestors who diserve it more than some others...for that i will continue in serbian assuming some of the creators of this mode are Serbs:

    Zanima me tacno izgled srpskih trupa u modu buduci da je rec o periodu vladavine cara Dushana.Posto imate toliko istoricara u timu razocaralo bi me da su jedinice (a narocito konjica) uradjene u stilu ranofeudalnih vojnika ili jos gore ruske vojske iz doticnog perioda.
    Prema mnogim izvorima, pa cak i turskim ,spominje se da je srpska vojska bila veoma disciplinovana i da je bila organizovana nalik na zapadnoevropske armije i pored toga sto je Srbija bila pod velikim uticajem Vizantije.Naime jedan turski izvor kaze da su se janicari Bajazitovog levog krila uspanicili jer se >>zemlja tresla od siline i mase srpske konjice u jurisu<<
    Sto se tice pesadije ona je bila slabije poremljena ali je i dalje bila veoma disciplinovana.

    Zeleo bih jos da napomenem da iako vec imate veliki strucni kadar ja vam mogu pomoci oko dosta stvari buduci da sam veliki ljubitelj Srednjeg veka a narocito perioda izmedju 1300-1500 godine koji vec nekoliko godina proucavam.I jos nesto,dosta pouzdanih informacija mozete naci u knjizi "Kosovska bitka 1389" koju je napisao Bane Kerac.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    I LOVE these new units!
    Paticularly the Hussars and Gussari!!
    Keep up the good work, guys!

  7. #27

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    About the eagle, it seems like albanian eagle (or chicken? )...like purpose...BUT i think that real serbian heraldry was this from 14th century:




    And this look like serbian too:



    And this:



    :hmmm:
    Last edited by Lothar14; June 13, 2008 at 09:48 AM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Well the eagle is not Albanian but Albanian eagle is Serbian!Thay took the black eagle from CoA of Serbian noble Djuradj Kastriotich who was muslimised and became known as Skender Beg.The eagle is derived from Nemanjich dynasty CoA and in that time it was popular symbol amongst Serbian Nobles.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    ok, but its better to take a serbian eagle, what seems like SERBIAN at the first sight to the game....not albanian (serbian?)....i want to play to Serbia, not Albania......

  10. #30

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    this will be Serbian CoA in Tsardoms:


    The House of Wilpuri ~ Proud Patron of: The Noble Lord & Sumskilz


  11. #31
    srednjovekovnik's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    nice.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Ok for the coat of arms its fine with me but consider what have i sead about the units,otherwise it wont be historicaly acurate and thats not what you want.

  13. #33
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzar View Post
    this will be Serbian CoA in Tsardoms:


    From what I understand as a long standing fanatical fan of this mod, the Tsardoms team has put a lot of time into their research for the heraldry and faction symbols within this mod, and probably won't change it any time soon.
    γνῶθι σεαυτόν ~ μηδὲν ἄγαν

  14. #34
    Bosnae's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Dushan don't worry the history reasarches are as accurate as possible for the CoA and the Units. Haven't you seen the 1 or 2 Preview with the Serbian troops?



  15. #35

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Yes but it is little short described,and cavalry units did not suprise me much.I just hope this will not end up as 1989 movie "Kosovo Battle".

  16. #36

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    I have read all written in this topic and I do have some corrections to add. I studied archaeology and I had exam from heraldry (more specifically Serbian heraldry) so, trust me, I know what am I saying.
    Despite all the influences from the west (during the 13 and 14 centuries) there is NO evidence whatsoever that Serbia (kingdom and empire) used any coat of arms to define itself, or that any noble families used coats of arms. However it should be noted that medieval Serbia was not unified culturally, so some of the provinces had more western influences (Zeta for example), and it is possible that some form of coat of arms was used to describe noble family who would rule it at the time. The greatest problem is that many people (especially young Serbs) tend to look upon medieval Serbia as western country. This is common misconception. In Serbia, there were no knights – in the romantic sense of the term, there was no capital city, there were no tournaments (only few of them are mentioned during the 200 years of Nemanjic rule), and there were no coats of arms used until the beginning of the 15 century.

    Dushan the Powerfull” posted coat of arms that supposedly belonged to Stefan Dusan the Mighty; this coat of arms has nothing to do with medieval Serbia. If I am not wrong (and almost certainly I am not) this coat of arms is from baroque period, invented by Hristofer Zefarovic or Zaharija Orfelin to resemble the Serbian Empire which encompassed many provinces of Habsburg Empire (you can recognize symbols usually given to Rama,Zeta,Croatia,Hum …). It is belived that this CoA was first made by some admiral (despite all efforts I can not remember the name) in Spain (Castilla I think) after the battle of Lepanto in the beginning of the 16 century who claimed to be descendant of Nemanjic house. As there were glorious plans to recapture Balkan from Ottomans he hoped that if he proves his noble ancestry he might be appointed king or emperor of renewed state. Therefore he invented not only his ancestry but also supported it with coats of arms of various provinces of Balkan. Most CoAs that you consider today to be Rashkan, Zetian, Macvan are actually from that book he wrote.
    Of course, we have no way of knowing if he used some older document to make up his ancestry,but so far it is unknown that nobles in Serbia used ANY coat of arms prior to despotat.
    After the defeat of Ottomans in Ankara, in 1402, despot Stefan Lazarevic agreed to become Hungarian vassal, and from then we have introduction of CoA in Serbian nobility.

    However,some facts deserve to be noted.
    1.It is generally considered that Stefan Nemanja took the symbol of bicephalous eagle from the Roman Empire (Byzantia) to be the symbol of his house. – There is no written proof of this in any of his biography, however, bicephalous eagle is used as ornament in clothing and in frescoes from that time onward.
    2. The coat of arms of Stefan Dusan was red bicephalous eagle on golden field. – No historical evidence for this (some even say that “his flag was green with silver eagle”).However, on the map of Angelino Dulcerti (I belive I’m right about the name), from the middle of 14 century, Serbian Empire is shown with flag on the city of Skoplje, the flag being gold with red bicephalous eagle. This caused the thought of Serbian symbol was as described. It is most probable that Dusan’s own flag was like that – no proof anyway.
    3.The medieval Serbian CoA was silver eagle on red field. – no proof for this either. The CoA of Stefan Lazarevic as member of Ordo Draconis was silver eagle on red field surrounded with tied up dragon. His coat as despot was silver bicephalous eagle on red field ,with silver bull horns in beaks. We do not know if this is reuse of any other CoA from earlier period but it is generally taken as fact.
    Actually,present CoA of Republic of Serbia,is made in the late 19 century by Stojan Novakovic supposedly on the earlier CoA.

    And,one more thing before I finish; the Serbian cavalry in the movie “Boj na Kosovu” is very well made (I speak of the costumes), most probably resembling their real look. (Read Dr.Vladan Djordjevic – Emperor Dusan, Smilja Dusanic “History of private life in medieval Serbia” and you’ll see that makers of the film used original medieval sources to describe the look of Serbian army )

  17. #37

  18. #38

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    The Nemanjics
    Attachment 15528
    Last edited by Baron Vlad Felix; October 26, 2008 at 09:56 AM.

  19. #39
    The Noble Lord's Avatar Holy Arab Nation
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    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    Very interesting pics VLAD FELIX. Nice.


    CHEERS
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    أسد العراق Asad al-Iraq
    KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!!
    Under the proud patronage of the magnificent Tzar


  20. #40

    Default Re: Faction - Tsardom of Serbia

    hvala!The Noble Lord

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