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Thread: Faction - Republic of Venice

  1. #1

    Default Faction - Republic of Venice

    Serenissima Republica Veneta

    *Republica de Venesia*


    * * * * * * * * * * * UNITS * * * * * * * * * * *



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    Last edited by Tzar; February 11, 2008 at 10:00 PM.
    The House of Wilpuri ~ Proud Patron of: The Noble Lord & Sumskilz


  2. #2

    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    ......to be edited
    The House of Wilpuri ~ Proud Patron of: The Noble Lord & Sumskilz


  3. #3
    Sarmatian's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    Ok, this is a very WIP unit roster for Venice. Feel free to debate and disscuss.

    Venice was at first one of many Italian city-states, but it's unique position allowed it become the most powerful and influental city state in Italy.
    Situated on an island, surrounded by lagoons and canals, Venice was almost unassailable from land. Venetians used this fact to create a powerful fleet which dominated eastern Mediteranean till the second half of the 16th century. This was not in small part due to the Arsenal and technological innovations used in shipbuilding. Naval might of Venice was almost exlusively based on production power of the Arsenal. Arsenal got it's name from Arabic word for Dockyard. It served not only as a Dockyard, but as a military factory... It produced weapons and armour on a scale never repeated until industrial revolution.

    Venetian army was similarly very efficient. This allowed this relatively small city-state to fight effectively against more powerful and bigger opponents, like Hungary and HRE. It's militia was considered the best in Italy and it's bottomless purse allowed best mercenaries to be hired...

    Through it's trade network, Venice had access to Byzantine and Muslim military technology so it is no wonder that Venice used tactics, arms and equipment that was much more advanced than in countries north of the Alps.
    From 11-12 centuries entire northern Italy mosly relied on town militia for fighting, but starting from the second half of the 14th century, most city-stated moved toward hiring professional and semi-proffesional mercenaries - Condottieri. Origins of Condottieri are probably foreign mercenary companies that roamed Italy in the XIV century, looking for employment. Through much of the XIV, XV and XVI century, northern Italy was a buyers market. Abudance of Condottieri alowed city-stated to hire quality Condottieri. Condottieri themselves ranged from local Italians to German, English and Spanish troops. Also, some more exotic mercenaries, like Saracens from Sicily were employed on occassions.
    Venetian themselves weren't really warlike. The treated war like a neccessary evil for furthering their trade interests and they usualy refrained from it unless they were sure it was going to be profitable.

    As elsewhere in northern Italy, crossbow was probably the most important single piece of weaponry. It had great penetrative power, it was easy to use and fairly precise. It was used both by army and navy. Venetian republic had long used standardized crossbows and bolts so that bolts could be fitted on any weapon, regardless of who made it. Crossbows were mostly made in the Arsenal. Venetian tradition of all classes to carrying arms and goverment encouraging military training among citizens, it's not suprising that Venetian infantry was both numerous and effective. In Venice itself, those troops were called Sestieri and they included crossbowmen, spearmen, pikemen, handgunners (in the second half of the XIV century). mounted units etc... Almost national pride these man had ensured that their morale was very high. The elite of Venetian militia infantry were, however, Arsenalotti, who were well paid craftsmen of the Arsenal. They were responsible for guarding Doge's Palace and other important buildings.

    Infantry in Terra Firma (litteraly firm land, which included mainland italian position) was similarly organized but the troops recruited from Terra Firma -
    Ordinanze were generally of poorer quality. In most cases they were auxiliary troops not used in battles unless it was absolutely neccessary. They lacked the training, equipment and morale of infantry from the city of Venice.
    Likewise, infantry recruited from neighbouring feudal lands were also of poorer quality. They were called Masnada.

    Heavy Cavalry was organized as Lanze (lances) units, consisting of Man-at-arms, armoured sergeant and a mounted servant. Those troops were mostly short term condottieri. Meanwhile, similar more stable formation was formed Lanze Spezzale (broken lances), who consisted of almost the same type of troops. However, those position were permanent and usually veteran troops.
    Light cavalry was mostly non-italian and from cca 1400 local stradioti were mostly employed in defence of overseas colonies but they were also used in Italy, since they proved their worth in numerous battles. They were recruited mostly from Albanian, Dalmatian and Greek population. Their equipment ranged, fro, none armour at all to leather and mail and they were armed with spears, javelins, bows etc... Stradioti were undisciplined but they had excellent morale and they were very reliable troops. The fact that they were cheap didn't hurt either...

    My plan is to divide units in two types: Militia and Condottieri
    Militia will be standardly recruited, but I'm thinking of separate Condottieri recruitment building from which most of the field army will be recruited.
    Condottieri were historicaly used as field army (although their contracts were time limited) while militia was mostly used for garrisons. Of course Provisionati will be present, but they weren't used as much as condottieri so Venetian player will rely mostly on condottieri...

    Condottieri recruitment center should be avaible in Venice, Terra Firma and Dalmatia (with slightly different unit roster in Dalmatia maybe).

    Venice AOR:
    Italy, eastern Adriatic with islands and eastern Mediterranean.

    Venice wasn't really interested in the mainland which was usually difficult to keep and expensive to govern. The republic usually let local forces do the garissoning, which was a lot cheaper. That was not the case with islands, since they were crucial for her maritime empire and they were usually garrisoned with some venetian troops, along with local ones of course. This was the case with Crete, Evoia and so on... That's why I think continental Greece shouldn't be in Venice AOR

    The roster:

    1)Venice

    Infantry

    Level 1
    Spear sestieri - sestieri lanceri
    xbow sestieri - sestieri balestrieri

    Level 2
    Spear sestieri - sestieri lanceri
    xbow sestieri - sestieri balestrieri
    pavise crossbow sestieri

    Level 3
    Spear sestieri - sestieri lanceri
    xbow sestieri - sestieri balestrieri
    pavise crossbow sestieri
    pike sestieri

    Level 4
    Spear sestieri - sestieri lanceri
    xbow sestieri - sestieri balestrieri
    pavise crossbow sestieri
    pike sestieri
    xbow arsenalotti

    Level 5
    Spear sestieri - sestieri lanceri
    xbow sestieri - sestieri balestrieri
    pavise crossbow sestieri
    pike sestieri
    xbow arsenalotti
    handgun sestieri
    handgun arsenalotti

    Level 6
    Spear sestieri - sestieri lanceri
    xbow sestieri - sestieri balestrieri
    pavise crossbow sestieri
    pike sestieri
    xbow arsenalotti
    handgun sestieri
    handgun arsenalotti
    arqebusie sestieri
    arqebusie arsenalotti

    Cavalry

    Level 1
    mounted spear sestieri

    Level 2
    mounted spear sestieri
    mounted crossbow sestieri

    Level 3
    mounted spear sestieri
    mounted xbow sestieri

    Level 4
    mounted spear sestieri
    mounted xbow sestieri

    Level 5
    mounted spear sestieri
    mounted xbow sestieri
    mounted handgun sestieri

    Level 6
    mounted spear sestieri
    mounted xbow sestieri
    mounted handgun sestieri
    mounted arqebusie sestieri

    2)Cities in Terra Firma and rest of Italy
    ordinanze militia (same as venice, just no arsenalotti) lower stats and morale...

    3)Dalmatia, Istria and Crete
    Ordinanze militia + some local troops

    4)Other overseas colonies
    infantry
    local troops

    cavalry
    level 1
    spear stradioti

    level 2
    spear stradioti
    javelin stradioti

    level 3
    spear stradioti
    javelin stradioti
    horsearcher stradioti

    Level 4,5,6 the same


    Castles (provisionati)

    1) Terra Firma (+ entire Italy)

    Infantry

    level 1
    xbowmen

    level 2
    xbowmen
    light assault "sword and buckler" infantry - rotularii

    level 3
    xbowmen
    light assault "sword and buckler" infantry - rotularii
    venetian infantry

    level 4
    xbowmen
    light assault "sword and buckler" infantry - rotularii
    venetian infantry
    ronconeri - billmen

    level 5
    xbowmen
    light assault "sword and buckler" infantry - rotularii
    venetian infantry
    ronconeri - billmen
    venetian heavy infantry

    level 6
    xbowmen
    light assault "sword and buckler" infantry - rotularii
    venetian infantry
    ronconeri - billmen
    venetian heavy infantry
    dismounted lanze spezzate

    cavalry

    level 1
    mounted xbowmen

    level 2
    mounted xbowmen
    italian light cavalry

    level 3
    mounted xbowmen
    italian light cavalry
    armoured sargeants

    level 4
    mounted xbowmen
    italian light cavalry
    armoured sargeants
    men-at-arms

    level 5
    mounted xbowmen
    italian light cavalry
    armoured sargeants
    men-at-arms
    utili lanze spezzate (no horse armour)

    level 6
    mounted xbowmen
    italian light cavalry
    armoured sargeants
    men-at-arms
    utili lanze spezzate (no horse armour)
    elmetti lanze spezzate (armoured horse)

    2)Oversea colonies - Dalmatia, Istria and Crete
    same as castles + local troops

    Condottieri (recruited in separate building in cities in Italy and on the field)
    same as castles +
    saracen composite bowmen (not to sure about them, maybe only in the first couple of decades)
    spanish infantry
    swiss pikemen (rare)
    swiss halberdiers
    german infantry
    english longbowmen (rare)
    genoese crossbowmen


  4. #4
    Basileos's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    i'm very curious for this,because i think this would be the first time that venetian units will be reskined.

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  5. #5
    Matthæus's Avatar Knez Bribirski
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    burrek already reskinned units, but what we will do is to remake the unit roster completely
    Last edited by Matthæus; February 13, 2008 at 04:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Zenith Darksea's Avatar Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος!
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    May I just point out once and for all that it's spelt 'roster', not 'rooster'. A 'roster' is a list; a 'rooster' is a kind of farmyard animal.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    ...
    Last edited by il_duce_!; March 25, 2008 at 12:29 PM.

    TTW GRANDMASTER

  8. #8
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    Venetian heavy archer(late)...
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  9. #9
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    North italian millitia man(late)
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  10. #10
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    14th century italian millitia(like the one in MTW)!

    FOR YOU FRIENDS!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    Thanks
    The House of Wilpuri ~ Proud Patron of: The Noble Lord & Sumskilz


  12. #12

    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    Sorry Tzar...but if my memory don't fail me terribly this symbol you've posted as of venice is from persia, is the persian lion...The simbol of venice would be a similar lion, but holding an open book with some things written in it...

  13. #13
    pacco's Avatar -master-of-none-
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    The book was open in time of peace and closed in time of war (under the lion leg), that is correct simbol.

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice



    This flag was used in time of peace and the one we will use in Tsardoms was used in time of war and because this is Medieval Total War
    The House of Wilpuri ~ Proud Patron of: The Noble Lord & Sumskilz


  15. #15
    Sarmatian's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    There is one more theory actually, that open book was a flag for merchant ships, while warships had the closed book, sometimes with a sword...


  16. #16

    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzar View Post


    This flag was used in time of peace and the one we will use in Tsardoms was used in time of war and because this is Medieval Total War
    ohh...than it is surely apropriated for a game called total war!



    There is one more theory actually, that open book was a flag for merchant ships, while warships had the closed book, sometimes with a sword...
    interesting...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    so... with venice will you be pretending that it's a hereditary republic? and if so, will you be making the starting consilgeiri (or whatever, i don't know what the heir is called) the guy who in real life replaced the starting doge, or his actual son?

  18. #18
    The_Bulgar_Slayer's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    I'm not sure if the plan is to make it hereditary like in M2TW or more like the Teutonic knights in Kingdoms.

    Official Byzantine Historian for Tzardoms:Total War

  19. #19
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    Wait, is Cyprus going to be its own Kingdom, Venice took control in 1498, but it was its own Kingdom in 1345.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Cyprus:hmmm:

  20. #20
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Faction - Republic of Venice

    A small gift:
    Venetian








    CRETAN ARCHER under Venice rule.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


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