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Thread: Faction - Kingdom of Hungary

  1. #201

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    EDIT: nevermind, the off-topic stuff is gone.
    Last edited by Romano-Dacis; August 04, 2008 at 12:22 PM.

  2. #202
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Phew...
    It seems safe to venture here again...
    γνῶθι σεαυτόν ~ μηδὲν ἄγαν

  3. #203

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    So do you have the final unit list or it's still reshearching?



  4. #204

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    OFF: HAPPY BIRTHDAY HUNGARY!!!! ON xD



  5. #205

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Last edited by Baron Vlad Felix; October 26, 2008 at 11:00 AM.

  6. #206
    Csatádi's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Good pictures.
    The first one has a nomad hat, interesting. Rarely seen on Hungarian heads but it was in use in the period. I suppose especially Cumans liked this type.

    The knight has a wrong COA but looks cool.

  7. #207
    Matthćus's Avatar Knez Bribirski
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    thanks for the pictures vlad.

    first picture is deffinitley Cuman.
    second - armour is good. we will make something like this. and model of king will have a crown on helmet like this figure.

  8. #208
    Odovacar's Avatar I am with Europe!
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    First picture is incorrect.
    Hungarian knights had the same equipment as german knights.

    Most of the cavalrymen were light cavalry though.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB HORSEARCHER
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  9. #209

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Were horsearchers still significant in the army by 1345? I have a tendency to believe they weren't since Bertrand de la Brecqiere wrote that the Magyar horsearchers were not as competent as the Ottoman ones in 1440, and I believe Sigismund of Luxemburg even had to pass a law which forced every tenth serf to be equipped as an archer. I may be wrong, but I've never read of any battle after 1290 where the Hungarians had strong horsearchers.

  10. #210
    Odovacar's Avatar I am with Europe!
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Horsearchers were provided by the cumans after 1300.
    Even before then, most of the hungarians, maybe with the exception of székelys weren't horseachers.

    Your sources are right, Sigismund had a difficulty in raising horse archer bands. By 1400 cumans weren't nomadic, and 100 years later they elted into the hungarians, although the last speaker of cuman language died in 1770.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB HORSEARCHER
    quis enim dubitat quin multis iam saeculis, ex quo vires illius ad Romanorum nomen accesserint, Italia quidem sit gentium domina gloriae vetustate sed Pannonia virtute

    Sorry Armenia, for the rascals who lead us.


  11. #211

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    In Chronica Hungarorum from late 15th century (1493. AFAIR) it is written that mid-15th century Hungarian army under John Hunyadi had a mounted missile contingent mainly of mounted crossbowmen, equiped in the western fashion, with smaller number of szekely´s horse archers as skirmishers who would provoke enemy reaction or harass them during the march.

    Author of the ---== Knights Templar Mod ==---
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  12. #212
    Odovacar's Avatar I am with Europe!
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Some pics from my thread in Musaeum:

    Hungarian knights in 13th century: (no, fake ushanka hats!)

    http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?im...spusztakq8.jpg

    Cuman warrior, 14th century
    http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cuman2lw2.jpg
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB HORSEARCHER
    quis enim dubitat quin multis iam saeculis, ex quo vires illius ad Romanorum nomen accesserint, Italia quidem sit gentium domina gloriae vetustate sed Pannonia virtute

    Sorry Armenia, for the rascals who lead us.


  13. #213

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Very nice! Thanks odo.

  14. #214
    Csatádi's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by Romano-Dacis View Post
    Were horsearchers still significant in the army by 1345? I have a tendency to believe they weren't since Bertrand de la Brecqiere wrote that the Magyar horsearchers were not as competent as the Ottoman ones in 1440, and I believe Sigismund of Luxemburg even had to pass a law which forced every tenth serf to be equipped as an archer. I may be wrong, but I've never read of any battle after 1290 where the Hungarians had strong horsearchers.
    Around 1345 there were a lot of horse archers especially Cumans and Székelys. Horse archers were mentioned a lot in Italian sources in the wars of Lajos the Great. And as I remember in his Serbian wars, too. They were also mercenary horse archers in Italy for a while. The Italian lords liked them because there were a lesser chance of betrayal.
    In the Magyar Mod the player may hire peasant horse archers from the time of Sigismund they will be poor and cheap units.
    To the 15th century Cumans changed their warfare methods and served as knights and like Hussars.
    Even at the end of the 15th century Székelys provided horse archers, too.

    Anyway I suggest this page: http://www.warfareeast.co.uk/main/Medieval_Hungary.htm

  15. #215

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    I hope these will help.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by speedyvm; March 19, 2009 at 01:03 PM.

  16. #216
    Csatádi's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Unit list suggestion to Tsardom mod:

    Number of recruitable units also important thus I use a sign to reflect this if it is important. In vanilla 0.7 is the max number per turn so I use the N0,7 in the sake of simplicity.
    Another note in Hungary we halved the number of recruitable knights compared to the western factions.
    In Hungary the nobility shall defend only the area of Hungary. For foreign wars the kings had to hire soldiers but many nobles went with him especially in the 14th century in the hope of fame, royal gifts and loot.


    Castle
    NE Late Bodyguards
    peasants we gave them lances N0,7
    peasant archers not tipical but why not? N0,3
    Spearmen similar like sergeant spearmen only a few to defend walls and being castle guards N0,4
    Vlach spearmen tough, good morale N0,4
    Swordsmen chain mail or similar, round shield. ug: small pavese N0,4
    feudal knights ug1 till ~1370-80
    chivalric knights from the beginning or soon
    pavese spearmen chainmail or a bit better armor, 60 soldiers, heavy inf, very slow, able to stop any attack even if they die, charge 1, may be eligible from the start or a bit later N0,2
    foot archers or dismounted magyar cavalry till those N0,3
    pavise crossbowmen
    Lancers (or Hungarian nobles) like mounted sergeants or similar unit you use. chainmail. riding pony
    Magyar cavarly: till ~ 1380 medium numbers N0,4
    Székely cavalry: archer specialists, +1 attack and def skill compared to magyar cavalry, very hardy, a bit better morale, armor ~leather in value N0,2
    Cumans or C horse archers: a bit worse than székely, defenetly leather armor may look like leather coats. few hireable N0,5. till ~ 1375, may be available in very small numbers till 1420 N0,1
    Cuman nobles: heavy horse archers till ~1375 N0,1
    Peasant horse archers: the militia portalis. cheap, poor, weak. pony. N0,9 till ~ 1450 secondary weapon may be small war axes (fokos).
    Heavy halberdiers: like obudshaer, from 1420 N0,2
    Dismounted chivalric knights
    Magyar knights (royal banderium): similar weapons and stats like the gothic knights but only their upgrade gets the gothic armor.
    Serb Hussars: in Hungary they appeared as an effect of the occupation of Serbia by the Turks. I suppose you use a script to this. They may be also merceneries in vast numbers. fast pony N0,9
    Magyar Hussars: historically from ~1450. In the mod they should appear linked somehow to the Serb hussars. In additon they may appear when Hungary meets the Turks. fast pony. N0,9
    Armored Hussars: in the mod they should appear only if the turks conquer many parts of Hungary and the Hungarian knights were destroyed. Historically happened after the battle of Mohács in 1526
    Mounted crossbowmen: they were actually Bohemian and Polish mercenaries. Used by king Mátyás in his Bohemian wars.
    Mercenary heavy cavalry: in gothic armor, maybe a bit weaker bot gothic looking. similar in power like the standard knights
    Székely infantry: poor but very fierce. Swords, axes. from ~1420. N0,4
    Foot nobles, insurrection: or something like this. Poor nobles taking weapons only when enemy an army attacked Hungary. I can imagine them since 1450 with few number compared to the mounted insurrection but grow with time to N0,3. May be skipped, historically they hadn't got any important role. I suggest cheap like 50 florin hiring cost but high maintain cost. Poor, weak skills but better moral, differently armored and weaponed like club-fokos-sabre-sword. N0,7 The insurrection may be hired in a separate building or from the mercenary pool so high number of units should be hired every turn like 6-7.
    Noble insurrection: like lancers OR the two units may be the same. Right from start. I suggest cheap, 100 florin hiring cost but very expensive to maintain. if separated unit from the lancers they should be differently armored from clothing to chainmail or brigandine. Weapons, too: Axes-sabres-swords. pony N1,0

    City
    town militia if you use them
    spearmen militia
    crossbow militia
    halberd militia
    Lancers or Cavalry militia, see the lancers above. Many cities were obliged to send a few heavy cavalry to the royal army. N0,2
    handgunners haven't full armor. gambeson is more suitable
    Arquebusiers: it was invented around 1450

    I suppose Matko has created some Croatian units.

  17. #217

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by speedyvm View Post
    I hope these will help.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Nice Slovakians weapons are here +rep

    The more sand has escaped from the hourglass of our life, the clearer we should see through it.
    Niccolo Machiavelli

  18. #218

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Some of the best sources for equippment are church murals. Here's some from Transylvania covering the armor of knights and infantry too.
    14th century
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    This one is interesting because it shows the king and what could be his banderium.

    This one is interesting because it shows Hungarian infantry defeating Cumans.

    15th century:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Images of knights:



    The one above is very interesting because of the high level of detail on armor that is typical of the late 15th century.

    This one rather interestingly shows the Hungarian king fighting the Cuman khan. Note the bow, quiver, pointy hat, and horse with saddle in the background.

    What I find rather interesting is the distinct absence of spurs on the knights.
    Last edited by Romano-Dacis; March 01, 2009 at 10:25 AM.

  19. #219
    Csatádi's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Good pictures, Romano-Dacis. From which settlements are they from?

    This one is interesting because it shows Hungarian infantry defeating Cumans.
    They are just two episodes of a St Ladislaus scene.
    And the Cuman is only a Cuman warrior.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Faction-Kingdom of Hungary

    Quote Originally Posted by Csatádi View Post
    Good pictures, Romano-Dacis. From which settlements are they from?
    All of these are from various churches in Transylvania. Most of them are from the Harghita, Covasna, or Hunedoara regions. Some are from Mures as well.

    They are just two episodes of a St Ladislaus scene.
    And the Cuman is only a Cuman warrior.
    Yeah, I realized this later but forgot to change it. You can tell it's the same scene in the 14th and 15th century section because both show a woman chopping the cuman's leg off with an axe.

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