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Thread: Buildings and economy

  1. #1
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Buildings and economy

    Just as the thread title says, this thread is for descusing the new buildings planed for this (soon to be) great mod.

    From the second previw thred:
    Quote Originally Posted by il_duce_! View Post
    Nothing is set to stone. We still have to balance their effects. Feel free to post your ideas here at TTW.

    Any new ideas are appreciated. Any help is most welcome.

    I like the idea of ghettos, will propably make that as another new building.
    Regarding, Wine cellars, they very much existed in monastaries, and they will be in. I dont know for sure what effects they will have.

    You are right for the vineyard, and tavern, so, that will be corrected.

    Regarding Mint, well to make money you needed gold, or silver. Its just matter of balance. We will see about that. But, like Sarmatian said, feel free to open another thread, all buildings and economy is WIP, and we can discuss there.
    About the wine cellars: Ofcourse they existed, but they didnt have mutch impact. They were very minor constractions, now I have another suggestion:
    Split the wine market into 2 buildings:
    The vineyard- Greately encreases trade income, can onely be built in the requierd teritories.
    From wiki: "A vineyard is a plantation of grape-bearing vines, grown mainly for winemaking, but also raisins, table grapes and non-alcoholic grape juice."
    Winery (The place that actually makes the wine)- Encreases population happines, small conversion bonus for christian.
    From wiki: "wineries can be found nearly everywhere. Wineries do not have to be located adjacent to vineyards; grapes can be shipped anywhere."
    "In medieval Europe, the Christian Church was a staunch supporter of wine which was necessary for the celebration of the Catholic Mass. "

    About the mint:
    I seriousely dont know how you can represent the minting proces in-game.
    The medieval II engyn cant handle this reallistically.
    Now, if we had inflation, it would be posible.

    Also: you shoul place a limit on production buildings in cities that raises when the city grows.
    So that, for instance: A large city could have 2 production buildings, and a huge city 3. (thats just an example)
    Last edited by Valentin the II; January 12, 2008 at 10:28 AM.
    Born to be wild - live to outgrow it (Lao Tzu)
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    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

  2. #2

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Well, the very first limit for production buildings are the resources. In order to make a production building, appropriate resource must be present.

    I can make winery, and keep those wine cellars as an upgrade for winery. Something like level 2 upgrade, available only in cities and big cities. But still, those buildings must have some kind of requierment.

    I dont know If its possible to make a requierment like this> if the Vineyard is present in another city, than construct Winery anywhere you want. I have an idea how to implement that kind of requierment, but have to check it out first.

    Oh, I forgot to mention that there are going to be some serious limitations for population grow in TTW. Its going to be very hard or impossible for small cities to achieve huge city level. Those levels are reserved only for certain cities. So, limiting the production buildings with the population grow is a bad idea. Besides, there were high production cities in medieval times, with a relative small population.

    Regarding mint. Well, we can do it as an effect of that building. And I mean real global effects for that specific faction, its economy and merchants.
    Last edited by il_duce_!; January 12, 2008 at 11:25 AM.

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  3. #3
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by il_duce_! View Post
    Well, the very first limit for production buildings are the resources. In order to make a production building, appropriate resource must be present.

    I can make winery, and keep those wine cellars as an upgrade for winery. Something like level 2 upgrade, available only in cities and big cities. But still, those buildings must have some kind of requierment.

    I dont know If its possible to make a requierment like this> if the Vineyard is present in another city, than construct Winery anywhere you want. I have an idea how to implement that kind of requierment, but have to check it out first.

    Oh, I forgot to mention that there are going to be some serious limitations for population grow in TTW. Its going to be very hard or impossible for small cities to achieve huge city level. Those levels are reserved only for certain cities. So, limiting the production buildings with the population grow is a bad idea. Besides, there were high production cities in medieval times, with a relative small population.

    Regarding mint. Well, we can do it as an effect of that building. And I mean real global effects for that specific faction, its economy and merchants.
    Great.
    But remember: Minting money has nothing to do with trade.

    EDIT: What controll over the economy you (as a modder) have?
    Last edited by Valentin the II; January 12, 2008 at 11:56 AM.
    Born to be wild - live to outgrow it (Lao Tzu)
    Someday you will die and somehow something's going to steal your carbon
    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

  4. #4

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin the II View Post
    Great.
    But remember: Minting money has nothing to do with trade.

    EDIT: What controll over the economy you (as a modder) have?
    Well, you can do a lot of things. Manage the incomes, population grow, bonuses from the buildings, merchants, resoruces and stuff like that.
    Last edited by il_duce_!; January 12, 2008 at 12:07 PM.

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  5. #5
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Do you have any controll over what recources a city buyes (you can see them in the trade section of a setlment) and what efect they have?
    Born to be wild - live to outgrow it (Lao Tzu)
    Someday you will die and somehow something's going to steal your carbon
    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

  6. #6

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin the II View Post
    Do you have any controll over what recources a city buyes (you can see them in the trade section of a setlment) and what efect they have?
    No, you dont have any control over that. Tell me whats in your mind.

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  7. #7
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    I was just thinking that the vinyard could produce a grape resource, that the city with the winery would buy.
    You could use this system for many things, but thins you dont have controll over that....
    Born to be wild - live to outgrow it (Lao Tzu)
    Someday you will die and somehow something's going to steal your carbon
    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

  8. #8

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Unfortunately, that's impossible.

    I added Jewish ghetto...So, basically the player will have a choice > jewish quarters or ghetto. Of course, the effects will be different for each building.

    Last edited by il_duce_!; January 14, 2008 at 10:35 PM.

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  9. #9
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin the II View Post
    I was just thinking that the vinyard could produce a grape resource, that the city with the winery would buy.
    You could use this system for many things, but thins you dont have controll over that....

    Its possible, through some creative scripting.

  10. #10

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Well, if it is possible, I will investigate it. I didnt know that you can actually control the trade and the exchange of the resources.

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  11. #11
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Not directly, but you can assign bonuses, build buildings, and if needed simulate trade with the add_money command, and add positive or negative numbers.

    With Kingdoms you can destroy buildings/trees, and increment the Kings Purse. A lot of time with scripting you just need to know what you want the end result to be, then you can put a description that says whatever you want in the building file. Like:

    Winery: allows you to import grapes and produce wine.

    Then in the winery building the first thing you do is put a trade_bonus in it, that gives you a static bonus.

    Then you can script a command for each settlement that you want to allow the winery in that can add other amounts of money.

    SettlementTurnEnd London
    if condition = true then add_money 10

    If other condition = true then add 50

    Or...
    If SettlementBuildingExists London Winery
    and SettlementBuildingExists
    and if settlementowner London = England
    and SettlementBuildingExists Caen Vineyard
    and SettlementOwner Caen = England

    add_money

    Something like that, which gives you the money based on conditions you apply. Its not REALLY manipulating trade, but you get the end results you want, which is added money. You just have to figure out a list of conditions and when to test them.

  12. #12

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Yea, I'm ok with that, but to produce a resource?

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  13. #13
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    I think you misunderstood what I was saying if you thought I said you could "produce" a resource.

    Regarding this:
    I was just thinking that the vinyard could produce a grape resource, that the city with the winery would buy.
    I dont think he specifically meant produce the resource on the map through the building, like producing ships when you have a port, but rather that he was wondering if there was a way to control trade routes and stuff like that which cant be done. But it can all be simulated as I mentioned above.

  14. #14

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Added winery.


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  15. #15

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Mercenary camps> eastern and western.


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  16. #16
    \Vazul's Ghost/'s Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    This may seem like a stupid question but I know little of how buildings work when it comes to modding, will these actually appear on the battle map or is that impossible... Looks great either way though. Keep up the GREAT WORK!
    γνῶθι σεαυτόν ~ μηδὲν ἄγαν

  17. #17

    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Well, it is possible, but requires a lot of work. New models, skins, etc. First things first. We have to finish units, and later, we will see about new buildings on the battle map.

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  18. #18
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    You can just use one of the vanilla models to represent it on the battle map.

    btw love the artwork.

  19. #19
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by GrnEyedDvl View Post

    I dont think he specifically meant produce the resource on the map through the building, like producing ships when you have a port, but rather that he was wondering if there was a way to control trade routes and stuff like that which cant be done. But it can all be simulated as I mentioned above.
    Yep, thats what I meant.

    Aniway, great buildings.
    What are the mercinary camps gona do?
    Born to be wild - live to outgrow it (Lao Tzu)
    Someday you will die and somehow something's going to steal your carbon
    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

  20. #20
    Sarmatian's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: About the new buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin the II View Post
    What are the mercinary camps gona do?
    I'll give you three guesses ...

    You're gonna hire mercenaries in them


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