Faction - Banate of Bosnia

[B. Ward]

Please use English. If you wish to talk in your native tongue please use the appropriate language forums or private messages. This is your friendly general warning.

[Bosnian_King]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ox_monasteries

Dear Tzar,

You really are making a mistake here. We can proof it. You are using wikipedia as a relevant source. Why not your own Serbian historians. The people that wroted your national history? Believe me Tzar. One manystree was found in hum. I quoted 2 of the serbian profesors, PROFESOR, which said: "No orhodox were present in Bosnia, this is for us a clear case now" Did you read my qouete? Read their books. I can qouete 18 more.

Find ONE Serb historian for me that is mentioning orthodox manastries in Bosnia. And find one historian, Serbian historian who is mentioning more than the found orthodox manastry in hum. Quoete this historian and all the problems will be solved. I don't ask more from you. But if you do something this gas to be fundated in proof. We are talking about the history of the country we Bosnians see as our only country. It's importent for us.

[il_duce_!]

Dear Tzar,

You really are making a mistake here. We can proof it. You are using wikipedia as a relevant source. Why not your own Serbian historians. The people that wroted your national history? Believe me Tzar. One manystree was found in hum. I quoted 2 of the serbian profesors, PROFESOR, which said: "No orhodox were present in Bosnia, this is for us a clear case now" Did you read my qouete? Read their books. I can qouete 18 more.

Find ONE Serb historian for me that is mentioning orthodox manastries in Bosnia. And find one historian, Serbian historian who is mentioning more than the found orthodox manastry in hum. Quoete this historian and all the problems will be solved. I don't ask more from you. But if you do something this gas to be fundated in proof. We are talking about the history of the country we Bosnians see as our only country. It's importent for us.

No, you got it wrong. You dont have to prove anything here.

And who said that stecak monuments were used only by Krstjani? There are a lot of those monuments in western Serbia, in land that has nothing to do with the Krstjani (they are even called differently - krajputasi).

"Your only country" belongs to the people that live there. Today that includes Serbs, Croats, Muslims. You are very pathetic at least, if you think that the theories of one columnist, and some quotes, gives you the right to call that lands yours (whatever or whoever you are).

That was your goal in the first place. Sorry, wrong (nazi) approach, wrong theory, wrong forum, wrong moderator.

I will not tolerate that crap anymore.

[Bosnian_King]

No, you got it wrong. You dont have to prove anything here.

And who said that stecak monuments were used only by Krstjani? There are a lot of those monuments in western Serbia, in land that has nothing to do with the Krstjani (they are even called differently - krajputasi).

"Your only country" belongs to the people that live there. Today that includes Serbs, Croats, Muslims. You are very pathetic at least, if you think that the theories of one columnist, and some quotes, gives you the right to call that lands yours (whatever or whoever you are).

That was your goal in the first place. Sorry, wrong (nazi) approach, wrong theory, wrong forum, wrong moderator.

I will not tolerate that crap anymore.

What the hell are you talking about man? Now I am a nazi too because I say that we don't want to be called like Turks and Serbs. While you was not here about 30 post were deleted. NOT ONE OFFENDED POST DID I WRITE. Ask the other people if this is true. An when I say Bosnia is our obly country I don't mean that it is Only ours but that we dont have another reserve country like Serbs and croatians in Bosnia. Serbs don't support the Bosnian team for instance nor do croatians do. In Bosnia it is forbidden by law to call the Bosniaks Muslims on tv. We are Bosniaks by law and our national flag is the flag with the lillies. I don't know if you are another Serb moderator but i suggest you are...

Anyway I am off this mod. It is not interesting to me anymore. I tried to help and I gave some resistence to those who called us Turks and Serbs, traitors and I did this withput one signel bad word. And what do I get in return? I am called a nazi because some of the admins doesn't understand English that well. Of course Bosnia is our one country. That's what we have always said! If I am a nazi because of that just ban me, I don't miind. And i didn't mentioned steci here I only said that all serb historians say that there was one orthodox church in hum and not more than one.

[il_duce_!]

What the hell are you talking about man? Now I am a nazi too because I say that we don't want to be called like Turks and Serbs. While you was not here about 30 post were deleted. NOT ONE OFFENDED POST DID I WRITE.

I deleted them all.

Ask the other people if this is true. An when I say Bosnia is our obly country I don't mean that it is Only ours but that we dont have another reserve country like Serbs and croatians in Bosnia. Serbs don't support the Bosnian team for instance nor do croatians do. In Bosnia it is forbidden by law to call the Bosniaks Muslims on tv. We are Bosniaks by law and our national flag is the flag with the lillies. I don't know if you are another Serb moderator but i suggest you are...

Another reserve country? Whats that?

Maybe its the country where you are sent off, if you are unwelcome in your own.

Anyway I am off this mod. It is not interesting to me anymore. I tried to help and I gave some resistence to those who called us Turks and Serbs, traitors and I did this withput one signel bad word. And what do I get in return? I am called a nazi because some of the admins doesn't understand English that well. Of course Bosnia is our one country. That's what we have always said! If I am a nazi because of that just ban me, I don't miind. And i didn't mentioned steci here I only said that all serb historians say that there was one orthodox church in hum and not more than one.

And whats your point? You want to prove that before the Ottomans in Bosnia there were no Serbs, except in Hum? I suppose so, because you suggested to change and lower the numbers of orthodox population.

Why is that important so much to you? Obviously not because you are interested in this mod (you said it yourself in your last post), but for other political reasons.

Personally, I dont want to see that kind of discussion here. First of all, because this isnt the appropriate forum for that, and because people like Matko and myself, have to delete, edit, write, etc. posts, and we have better things to do.

[Matthæus]

you didn't listen to my warnings so see what happened.

before we started this mod a friend told me: "A mod about medieval Balkans ? why ? who needs such thing ? it will only make people fight over ancient history all over your forum". he was right after all.

we here will not support any national exclusive theory, what ever side it comes from.
so NO to "There is no such thing as Bosnians, those are actually Serbs"
and also NO to "there were no Serbs in medieval Bosnia"

and you all will have to live with that.

[The Noble Lord]

I agree, politics should be kept out of this forum. If anyone wanna discuss Balkan politics and historical issues of the Balkan peoples, then there is Political Mudpit and Political Academy.


CHEERS

[Bosnian_King]

I deleted them all.




Another reserve country? Whats that?

Maybe its the country where you are sent off, if you are unwelcome in your own.



And whats your point? You want to prove that before the Ottomans in Bosnia there were no Serbs, except in Hum? I suppose so, because you suggested to change and lower the numbers of orthodox population.

Why is that important so much to you? Obviously not because you are interested in this mod (you said it yourself in your last post), but for other political reasons.

Personally, I dont want to see that kind of discussion here. First of all, because this isnt the appropriate forum for that, and because people like Matko and myself, have to delete, edit, write, etc. posts, and we have better things to do.

I don't say there were no Serb tribes. A part of the Bosnjan has serb roots. We are talking about the religion. Here is something from the beginning of Ban Tvrtko's rule:

Isprava Rajkovicima koja zavrsava sa
"I s tim ivasemi predasmo ga u viru dedinju i vse crkve bosanske. I vse krstjane da mu je ruka. I da mu se ne more svrci vera krstjanska ni za jedin uzrok...... i sto ga ne sudi Ded i dva strojnika s njim,.........I da ne suzanj nikadar dokle je koren u Bosne crkve Bozje. da u tom ima crkva stati."

[sportsman81]

Hey people!

This is my first post in this forum. Firstly, I would like to show my GREAT (finally someone want to do a big mod on Balkan countries) admiration for modders who are working on this great mod, Tsardoms. I wish them all the best!

Further more, I hope this mod will be soon finnished. If yes, when? If not, I want to help. Not as a modder (I am bad in modding) but, as a historian. I am a big medieval history fan (especially on Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia medieval history themes) so, I am willing, to help you people who are working on this mod, to make this mod more historically accurate with exact details and information. Just order me and I will do it as soon as possible.

Why there is not Croatia in Tsardoms? I think Croatia should be there but you are the bosses people. What kind of pathces do I need to play Tsardoms? Also, there is too much politics on this topic. We should have take in consider historically accurate details and facts not "politically accurate".

I hope mod will be finnished soon.

I wish you all the best!

[il_duce_!]

Thanks for the support!

We dont know when we are going to finish it and release it. There is a lot of work to do.

[Matthæus]

Hey people!

This is my first post in this forum. Firstly, I would like to show my GREAT (finally someone want to do a big mod on Balkan countries) admiration for modders who are working on this great mod, Tsardoms. I wish them all the best!

Further more, I hope this mod will be soon finnished. If yes, when? If not, I want to help. Not as a modder (I am bad in modding) but, as a historian. I am a big medieval history fan (especially on Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia medieval history themes) so, I am willing, to help you people who are working on this mod, to make this mod more historically accurate with exact details and information. Just order me and I will do it as soon as possible.

Why there is not Croatia in Tsardoms? I think Croatia should be there but you are the bosses people. What kind of pathces do I need to play Tsardoms? Also, there is too much politics on this topic. We should have take in consider historically accurate details and facts not "politically accurate".

I hope mod will be finnished soon.

I wish you all the best!

thanks

Croatia is part of Hungary, at this time. so it will be interpreted within Hungarian faction via specific units (Uskoks and other ), various flags and coats of arms (Except Frankapan flags and coa on shields).

[Yuri Orlov]

(Uskoks and other ),

One question... will the uskoks only come after/if the turks take over the balkans?
is it possible to make it this way....

[Matthæus]

One question... will the uskoks only come after/if the turks take over the balkans?
is it possible to make it this way....

they will certainly come very late. there could be a script - if Ottomans conquer parts of Bosnia or Croatia (geographically speaking) they trigger an event that enables their recruitment.

[The Noble Lord]

Why there is not Croatia in Tsardoms? I think Croatia should be there

Welcome to the Tsardoms forum sportsman81
You can contribute with your knowledge and know-how, you are most welcome.
And to answer you question about Croatia, there is a thread under name "New faction: Croatia" on this forum and in there we have already discussed why Croatia is not going to take part in the mod.
The Tsardoms mod will cover time from 1345 to 1530. And during that time Croatia was firmly under control of Hungary. That's why! There is no conspiracy or anything like that, its just that Croatia doesn't belong to time-span of the mod due to the historical circumstances.


CHEERS

[Matthæus]

to be more precise - Croatian nobility was feeling pretty satisfied within the borders of the "lands of the crown of the St.Stephen". Since they had equal rights as their Hungarian counterparts they didn't even think of independence of Croatian lands.

[B. Ward]

Please keep all political discussion in the Mudpit. Do not disrupt the development of the mod with it. This is your final warning. Infractions will be handed out from this point on.

[sportsman81]

Hey guys!

@The Noble Lord and @matko, thank you for your explanation regarding Croatia not in Tsardoms.

Regarding Bosnia, have take in consider making in Tsardoms the character of herceg Stjepan Vukcic Kosaca, a Great Bosnian duke and nobleman of Hum and Zahumlje. He fought for about almost 20 years with Ottomans after they conquered Bosnia in 1463.

[Ali G]

Kosaca family will be included, there is their CoA's as well in another thraed on this forum.

[sportsman81]

OK, nice to hear that Kosaca noblemen are there. They are my favorite Bosnian noblemen.
I suppose Grand Ban of Bosnia Stjepan II Kotromanic will also be there from the beginning. Also, will Bosnian Banate in Tsardoms, in the time of Stjepan II Kotromanic in the beginning of the play, have the same estates and lands!? For example, Stjepan II Kotromanic ruled over (except Gornja Bosna/Vrhbosna) Usora, Soli, Donji kraji, Hum/Zahumlje with parts of Primorje and Zavrsje/Zapadne strane (Duvno, Livno, Glamoc). Will those estates and land be included as special provinces of Banate of Bosnia with some cities/forts within.

Furher more, since Bosnian Banate ends in a year 1377. and, under the rule of Ban Tvrtko Kotromanic, Bosnia becomes a Kingdom and Tvrtko a King, will it come, in Tsardoms, to that change, that Bosnia in a year 1377. transforms from a Banate to a Kingdom or, perhaps, it should immediately begin as a Kingdom, under Stjepan II Kotromanic rule, if it is not possible to make a transformation during the gameplay!? That would be desireable, if possible!

More over, except in Bosnian Banate/Kingdom, krstjani as a religion (followers of Bosnian Church) should be present, partly, also in Dalmatia and Slavonia. They were present present in Rashka but, Grand Zupan Stefan Nemanja banished them from Rascia to Hum and Zahumlje.

Please, take in consider these details!

Best regards!

[sportsman81]

What about Ragusa (Dubrovnik)? In which faction will be Ragusa? Byzantium? Hungary? Venice?