Faction - Banate of Bosnia

[Tzar]

Banate of Bosnia

*Bosanska Banovina*

* * * * * * * * * * * UNITS * * * * * * * * * * *

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[Bosnae]

do you already know the regions wich will be under Bosnian control at the begin of the game?

and will Usora i Soli be there?

greeting

[Matthæus]

regions: Bosna (Bobovac - castle), Usora & Soli (Srebrenik - castle), Hum (Blagaj - castle), Donji Kraji (Kljuc - castle).

[Bosnae]

Great thx

Here i got some informations about the medieval bosnian army i hope they will be usefull for you i got this informations from a great tabletop-game.


Organisation
In the countryside most people were Kmets (Serfs) who (sometimes) paid a tithe to the King and did military service for their lord. In the mountains there were herdsmen, including Vlachs, who were only loosely part of the feudal system. The senior nobles and office holders of the state were called Veomoze (magnates), or after Bosnia became a kingdom Ban, and the lower nobles Knez (baron). In towns the Knez was more of an administrator (often a merchant) who would appoint a garrison commander although in the later period a Knez could also be a military commander. The old regional title of Zupan, survived until the early 1400’s, to denote something in between these levels.
The senior nobles held great power and had courts often on a par with the King. They were well connected with the rest of central Europe, including culture and marriage, despite the geographical remoteness. Families such as the Hrvatinici, Kosaca and Jablanic should be viewed as semi-independent principalities joined in a loose federation with the King to constitute the kingdom. There does not appear to have been any land for service arrangement like the Byzantine and Serbian pronoia.
As towns developed so did a series of impressive castles many of which can still be seen today. They dominated trade routes that were important not just locally. Merchants from Dubrovnik controlled trade and organised custom duties, dealing directly with the senior nobles. Not that this stopped the local nobles from extracting revenues or the Vlachs from looting caravans.
We know relatively little about how the armies were constituted and equipped. The army would be made up largely from the contingents of the nobility, supplemented by some mercenaries, funded from Bosnia’s mineral wealth. From the Bosnian stecaki (gravestones), royal seals and the limited exhibits in the National Museum it appears that they were organised and equipped similar to the Serbs, although with Hungarian and even Italian influences (via Dubrovnik) in armour. Essentially the Bosnian army is a lighter version of their Serbian and Hungarian neighbours to reflect the mountainous terrain.

greetings

[custa]

Knights and weaponry of the 14th and 15th century.


Since most of historical artifacts of former Yugoslavia, and especially Bosnia, went to the museum in Belgrade, I thought this image from the Belgrade museum may be useful. Bosnae mentioned the similarities between Serbian and Bosnian equipment in this time period. Hope it helps...

[Bosnae]

do you have an list of the first bosnian units

[Tzar]

do you have an list of the first bosnian units

Yes we have ,but it's still in development. If you have any idea please post it

[Bosnae]

well i don't know if you already have this on the list:hmmm:

here are some units witch would fit for this faction

Pronijar heavy cavalary
(a unit wich is a kind of the bosnian/croation version of the normal western european knights but not so heavy armoured)

Vojnici peasent infantry
(standard troops armed with halberds or Hand weapon probably axe and an shield and some light armour)

and an skirmish units wich is armed with bow or javelins
to reflect the mountainous terrain but i have no idea for a name
(and we all know mountainous terrain = light skirmish troops e.g the turkish azabs in vanilla)

i will later post some pics

[Matthæus]

well i don't know if you already have this on the list:hmmm:

here are some units witch would fit for this faction

Pronijar heavy cavalary
(a unit wich is a kind of the bosnian/croation version of the normal western european knights but not so heavy armoured)

"Pronija" is type of land grant that was not present in Bosnia -it was not heritable. Bosnia had feudalism of western type. so heavy cavalry would be called "Vlastela".
as for other non generic units - some kind of shielded archers and light cavalry unit.

[Bosnae]

"Pronija" is type of land grant that was not present in Bosnia -it was not heritable. Bosnia had feudalism of western type. so heavy cavalry would be called "Vlastela".

well thx for the description i was not sure with "vlastela" because i couldn't find something about them but i read some articles about "pronija" units so i thougt this would be the right name

[Matthæus]

Tsar - put this in your first post please

Family tree:

[Bosnae]

well her is the promesd pic it show's an peasent "vojnik"
i hope it helps

[Tzar]

First post edited

[Bosnae]

i hope i am not annoying you but i just have to ask you this

bosnia is the only kristjani faction so will they have a special priest as strategic charackter:hmmm:

e.g a "Did" or "Gost"

hope you know what i mean

greetings

[Tzar]

i hope i am not annoying you but i just have to ask you this

bosnia is the only kristjani faction so will they have a special priest as strategic charackter:hmmm:

e.g a "Did" or "Gost"

hope you know what i mean

greetings

Yes, they will have special religious character colled "djed"("grandfather")

[custa]

Other than the Kotromanic family, are there going to be other families included in the mod, mainly the nobles, some of whom had mixed loyalties to the Ban or King of Bosnia. It would make it more realistic.

[4th Regiment]

First, you have all the best wishes and potential (mostly historical advice) help from me, since I have no time for modding
First inaccuracy I have seen is in the list of factions.
Banate of Bosnia is listed as Kristijani(Orthodox Bogumil sect). It arrived in Bosnia form Serbia (it's origins are in Bulgaria) during time of Stephen Nemanja (around 1200) and in the time of start of this Mod there was no any Bogumilas in Bosnia. No any historical data about their presence. I know it is romantic but it they were heavily prosecuted by Pope and Orthodox Church Population was either ortodox (mostly in eastern part) or Catholic in western. Nobles and rulers were also either Orthodox or Catholic. It can be interesting since it can affect public order in provinces ruled by Orthodox or Catholic governor...

[custa]

Krstjani did not leave many writings because they operated in secret. In public, the Bosnian "ban" or "king" had his allegiance to the Pope, but in secret they did little to resist the teachings of the Bosnian church. If anything, you could say that krstjani were a spinoff of catholicism, and not heavily influenced by the orthodox teachings. The "heretical" teachings of the church started during the rule of Kulin Ban in the late 12th century. There were very little orthodox christians in Bosnia prior to the Ottoman period, mostly concentrated in the Zahumlje region.

[Sarmatian]

First, you have all the best wishes and potential (mostly historical advice) help from me, since I have no time for modding
First inaccuracy I have seen is in the list of factions.
Banate of Bosnia is listed as Kristijani(Orthodox Bogumil sect). It arrived in Bosnia form Serbia (it's origins are in Bulgaria) during time of Stephen Nemanja (around 1200) and in the time of start of this Mod there was no any Bogumilas in Bosnia. No any historical data about their presence. I know it is romantic but it they were heavily prosecuted by Pope and Orthodox Church Population was either ortodox (mostly in eastern part) or Catholic in western. Nobles and rulers were also either Orthodox or Catholic. It can be interesting since it can affect public order in provinces ruled by Orthodox or Catholic governor...

You presented me with a perfect opportunity to present the team's view on the matter of historical authenticity/accuracy.

1) We do stuff to the best of our knowledge. We don't claim to be all-knowing. That means that we might not be always 100% right, but we sure did some heavy research on the subject.

2) We have a couple of proffesional historians on the team, which means that we didn't just put some effort in this, but that we also have educated people to check everything.

3) Some stuff about this time period isn't exactly known. Nobody can say for sure that he/she know exactly how every single soldier looked like, what's exactly the population of some particular city, how many people exactly in some region were followers of some particular faith and so on...

4) This is the most important thing. If you want to point out some inaccuracy, you can't just say "it's inaccurate" and "it wasn't like that". Point out some credible sources (preferably more than one) that proves without a doubt that we are wrong.

So, to sum up, posts that say "this isn't correct" without pointing out several credible sources won't be taken into consideration. Period.

Thanks...

[Tzar]