Outstanding!.

**Halie Satanus** · January 05, 2008, 05:35 AM

Or not, that is the question. As per the awards thread I'm thinking nominations or not a mod has to be released to be defineable as outstanding, otherwise it's simply ''promising'', and we have a most promising MTW2 award..

Anyway have your say now and I'll make a decision based on that, this thread will only run for a day or so, so don't hold back.

Thank you.

**Amroth** · January 05, 2008, 05:41 AM

I agree. How would you know if a mod is outstanding if you have not played it yet? There are previews and stuff, of course, but they can only tell you so much.

Edit: Should probably be checked for a few other awards too, Creative Mapping comes to mind; can you really judge a map from screenshots only?

**MasterOfNone** · January 05, 2008, 05:55 AM

And "Achievement" suggests something that has been done, completed in some form or another. An author might write an oustanding manuscript, but it ain't gonna win any awards until it's published..which reminds me, I must get back to writing at some point soon

**Roman_Man#3** · January 05, 2008, 12:05 PM

It should only be released mods. I think thats fair, because we have the most promising mod awards for not released mods(although I may add not a RTW most promising mods).

**~~Miraj~~** · January 05, 2008, 02:04 PM

I agree in general, especially with regards to a "mod" or "team" award in that category. I think BC has no problem with being removed from that category, since - indeed- we have not even released yet.

However, I believe AlphaDelta is fully deserving to be on the outstanding individual awards poll. During BC's progress every fan has been able to see the progress of every single model, skin, map and other aspects of the mod. As a co-founder of BC AlphaDelta has shown time and time again the amazing speed and quality of his work and has previewed every single unit he's done on the forums, literally every week. His nick name around the BC forums has been "the machine" as a testament to both his artistic skill and speed. If you guys take a glance at the work that has been done in the BC forums, you'll see why so many people are voting for BC related materials. Its part fanboyism & hype no doubt - something we don't approve - but there are genuine and real reasons too. And those reasons are big enough to nullify issues of not being released yet.

What I would also suggest is that these in these polls RTW and M2TW be separated. Since its quite odd to have to choose between some individuals who aren't really in the same playing field. Its not fair to either M2TW mods or RTW mods.

**Halie Satanus** · January 05, 2008, 02:42 PM

Ok, I'm going to remove all unreleased mods and start the poll again, sorry about that, I did mention this before but when it came to putting them up it was a bit of a monotonous slog so remembering everything I meant to do wasn't really on the cards (like handicapping FATW in the fantasy mod award

) Sigh.

My personal opinion is that ''outstanding achievement'' and a couple of other awards should be dealt with by a closed Panel. I did say that before as well, maybe you'll all listen next time.

Again sorry about this.

Individual awards will stand as they are. though that should have been a panel as well.

**MasterOfNone** · January 05, 2008, 02:57 PM

Yes, I think the awards should be split where such cases occur.

I am not sure that your reasoning for AlphaDelta is justified though, simply because one could point to others who have done the same (and I can think of one "machine" that has very high standards and has produced an enormous amount at that time - though still remains unrecognised even after the release).

To my mind I find it hard to see that a contribution to the community or to modding can occur when something is unreleased. It simply exists in a non-contributed state. At this point the work with BC is contributed only to the Team and has yet to be contributed to the community. I have, for example, contributed some tutorials of some merit to the community(and also to help me not forget things!

), but they would not be of much use if they had just sat on my computer or kept them within the Dev Team and shown teasers of them...

I'm not saying this to whine, only to try and create greater fairness - TWC awards have been dogged with unfair comparisons and general quirkiness over the years and this has begun to be addressed in these last two Awards. The M2tw / RTW distinction should not marr that, and that is best achieved by split votes and applying the same rules.

**~~Miraj~~** · January 05, 2008, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by MasterOfNone

Yes, I think the awards should be split where such cases occur.

I am not sure that your reasoning for AlphaDelta is justified though, simply because one could point to others who have done the same (and I can think of one "machine" that has very high standards and has produced an enormous amount at that time - though still remains unrecognised even after the release).

To my mind I find it hard to see that a contribution to the community or to modding can occur when something is unreleased. It simply exists in a non-contributed state. At this point the work with BC is contributed only to the Team and has yet to be contributed to the community. I have, for example, contributed some tutorials of some merit to the community(and also to help me not forget things!

), but they would not be of much use if they had just sat on my computer or kept them within the Dev Team and shown teasers of them...

I'm not saying this to whine, only to try and create greater fairness - TWC awards have been dogged with unfair comparisons and general quirkiness over the years and this has begun to be addressed in these last two Awards. The M2tw / RTW distinction should not marr that, and that is best achieved by split votes and applying the same rules.

I can't find anything strongly disagreeable here. Note that I'm not telling you who should win.

I'm just stating whether AD deserves to be up there. BC is a mod in progress and will very soon be released - thats a major modification for M2TW in a period of 10 months. And consider the fact that each unit in M2TW comprimises of at least 3 unique skins due to the variations. Now BC has over 250 unique units through out its game world authored by AD. Another fact is that we've had total transparency throughout every aspect of our progress, which has generated a lot of attention and fans and by extension those votes you see.

So while I totally agree that a team award should be for teams that have released their work already. I feel AD is quite deserving to be on that individual awards poll.

**Halie Satanus** · January 05, 2008, 03:19 PM

Gahh, bugger, this is why I hate the awards, this is why I hate communities, and this is why I hate democracy, Next time I'm going to go down the pub with a list of names and a hat, you'd better be nice to me or you won't go in the dam hat!!!!....

Lets face it, AD shouldn't even be in there, sorry M'rge, fact is unreleased isn't by any measure ''outstanding'', potential, promising, yes, but outstanding no.

I'm going to sleep on it, I'm to tired to do anything about it right now.

**~~Miraj~~** · January 05, 2008, 03:25 PM

I agree putting such issues up for a vote can be highly problematic and divisive. I think perhaps its best to have that closed panel idea you stated earlier.

And to be perfectly honest, AD probably doesn't give 2 shytes if he's on a poll or not. So the BC team has no issues with whatever you guys decide since we never made our mod for awards - like most modders. Heck AD and Strelac probably just learnt about them in the past week.