modern inhabitants of sparta

**genko** · January 03, 2008, 12:49 PM

ok ive looked everywhere (meaning a quick google search

) and from what i can gather the desendants of the spartans are the tsakonians and maniotes which aparently arent that numerous and ancient sparta was destroyed then later rebuilt so what i want to know is who are the modern inhabitants of sparta decended from mesenians possibly?? :hmmm:

**Nikron** · January 03, 2008, 02:50 PM

Tsakonians maybe, but i think is better if we call them Arcadians...Maniotes are not descendants, coz they are arvanites, who came from north and south albania, the major part of them from Laberia ( albanian famous region ), and from the town of Himara, the most important town of the region ( i have to say im from himara

). Some of the himoriotes, went to italy too, in calabria and with many other albanians form every region of albania, who fleed from turikish invasion, after Skanderbeg death, created there an albanian comunity, that still speak albanian, like the arvanites of greece...I think there are no truly spartans in modern Sparti. Thats my opinion.

**Aradan** · January 04, 2008, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Constantine VII's De Administrando Imperio

Be it known that the inhabitants of Castle Maina are not from the race of aforesaid Slavs but from the older Romaioi, who up to the present time are termed Hellenes by the local inhabitants on account of their being in olden times idolaters and worshippers of idols like the ancient Greeks, and who were baptized and became Christians in the reign of the glorious Basil. The place in which they live is waterless and inaccessible, but has olives from which they gain some consolation.

So, Maniates are not Arvanites, ok? If you bother to make even a quick research you will find they are descendants of Spartans; and they have existed in that area and in history for *much* longer than some nations have existed in the Balkans - which can also be said about numerous other ethnicities, temples, generals, historical personalities, heroes, settlements and so on, if you catch my drift.
Tsakonians are also descendants of Spartans, their dialect is of Doric origin too, they were even regarded such that during the days of the Byzantine Empire - that was the reason they were heavily recruited into the army too.

That said, not many spartan-blood people live in Sparta today. Most of them are descended from other regions of Pelopennese, including Messenia and Arcadia.

**genko** · January 04, 2008, 06:01 AM

its nice to know the spartans didnt completely die out though it is a shame that they no longer inhabit sparta itself its also a shame old sparta was destroyed by ignorant people also may i add that if it wasnt for this mod i would have known absolutely nothing about ancient greece i think it was a briliant era that should be remembered for all time

**Nikron** · January 04, 2008, 09:24 AM

Aradan, i didnt said that Maina was not populated, but the new comers albanians inhabitated it, and made the major part of the people there. This albanians came from the town of Himara and they spoke and still speak albanian ( old albanian ). What do u mean when u say that they were not slavs? Are u saying that albanians are slavs? U are wrong my friend...Another region in peloponesos inhabitated by albanians is Morea...If u see all the heroes of Maina and Morea, are albanians, who dress their fustanellas ( albanian traditional clothes ), and speak only albanian with each other. They learned greek in 20th century ( there are many histories about their language, and that they didnt knew greek, even if they lived there since 10th and 11th century ). A bizantine emperor called this albanians to populate this region, and they were the first who fought against the ottomans in all greece. To honor them, the bizantine emperor changed his name to Glini ( albanian name ), and his wife name, Kuqia ( albanian name too )...This can be proved by the brakicefaly too...Kalo mire

**genko** · January 04, 2008, 09:28 AM

i thought i read somewhere that the albanians in greece where moved out by the bizantines??? though not the ones in mania

**Aradan** · January 04, 2008, 11:27 AM

I didn't say that Albanians are Slavs, I just quoted the whole passage from the text - in which Slavs were mentioned; my main goal was to show that Maniates are Greeks - not just a minority, but the vast majority of them. Albanians are not Slavs, by all means.

I am not interested in entering a nationalistic rant competition, so I will just say this: Peloponnesian heroes were Greeks, speaking Greek, having Greek families, fathers, women and children, were Greek-Orthodox and have nothing to do with Albanians. Morea, which you seem to think is a part of Pelopennese, was simply the very name of Pelopennese back then. When they rose up against the Turks they cried out for God and Greece, not Albania...

Understand that is insulting to claim another nation's heroes as your own. You wouldn't like it if I propagandised that Skenderbei (spelling might be wrong, sorry) was Greek... And it so happens that countries that have rich history, such as is Hellas, are often the victims of such propagandistic attempts. I know the education one gets at school plays a role in his beliefs and no country in the world has a completely unbiased history, though some are worse than others, depending one a nation's 'need' for history.

Off-topic ends here, regards Nikron, I hope you were not insulted.

**genko** · January 04, 2008, 01:07 PM

oh if only i could learn about greece in the same way i eat cake id be a genius im gonna go off my own topic now and ask another question what are your views on helenic neo-paganism?? a good idea to revive this great religion or something to be left in the past? i love it though im not a belever myself its a shame these days people find it hard to swallow that some girl high on fumes could tell you the future then we could revive the oracle at delphi haha

**Nikron** · January 04, 2008, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Aradan

I didn't say that Albanians are Slavs, I just quoted the whole passage from the text - in which Slavs were mentioned; my main goal was to show that Maniates are Greeks - not just a minority, but the vast majority of them. Albanians are not Slavs, by all means.

I am not interested in entering a nationalistic rant competition, so I will just say this: Peloponnesian heroes were Greeks, speaking Greek, having Greek families, fathers, women and children, were Greek-Orthodox and have nothing to do with Albanians. Morea, which you seem to think is a part of Pelopennese, was simply the very name of Pelopennese back then. When they rose up against the Turks they cried out for God and Greece, not Albania...

Understand that is insulting to claim another nation's heroes as your own. You wouldn't like it if I propagandised that Skenderbei (spelling might be wrong, sorry) was Greek... And it so happens that countries that have rich history, such as is Hellas, are often the victims of such propagandistic attempts. I know the education one gets at school plays a role in his beliefs and no country in the world has a completely unbiased history, though some are worse than others, depending one a nation's 'need' for history.

Off-topic ends here, regards Nikron, I hope you were not insulted.

Maniotes were Arvanites my friend. I though that u maybe were interested to know something new about maniotes, but now i opened ur profile and ur locations was Hellas. In this case, i cant talk with u coz we will never understand each other. But is a little hard to believe, that the inhabitants of Mani and Morea ( i mean the territory of the Despotate of Moream not all peloponesos ), lived there since 10th century, and they didnt knew greek ( this is unbelievable, but during the war of indipendence, many authors, greek authors, says that they spoke only albanian, and only some arvanite generals, knew a little greek, but when they talked with each other, they used albanian, coz was very difficult for them ). And why u think that after the liberation of greece, after arvanites, not greeks, liberated it, all the arvanites were sent to prisons, were killed, and why they fought counter the hellenization during this period, the period after the indipendence. And we dont learn in our school propaganda, sincerely, we dont learn things for example that the major part of hellenes were illyrian-pelasgians, but some of us know something more than normal people. Another arvanite, Aristidhi Kola ( or Aristides Kolias, greek version ), who died in 2000, a misterious death, said many things about his ancestors. Just read his books, and u will hate him. Im sure. But im just loosing my time with this things, coz this dont change nothing, the "Great Powers" will write the real history in the future. Im sure for that, coz Madeleine Albright said in her book that 80% of the greek museum, is albanian. Now the topics end here. Regards for u too Aradan. Have a nice day...Kalo mire

**~~removeduser_3482674582374~~** · January 05, 2008, 10:46 AM

Ok let me just say a few things to Aradar since i will lose my time if i reply to Nikron...It has been attempted many a times to "steal" Hellenic history etc. etc.
The thing most of these people who troll around in the net trying to "support" their "Crusades", when you ask them about sources they never come up with any...(Surprise, Surprise!!!!)...AND when i say sources i mean books and articles both old and new that THE ACADEMIC WORLD RECOGNISES!!!so obviously Albright' book isn't really considered as of one of the top academic book PLUS Albright herself is not also considered as one of the top Academics in the world....

One last question @ Nikron plz for the sake of comparing...

"How many museums do you Have in Albania (real big museums) and how many visitors do they get in a year???"

With Honor,

Polemidas.

**Nikron** · January 05, 2008, 03:53 PM

Im not going to lose my time with u, coz this dont change nothing. Im just curious, how old are u? What education do u have? What is ur hobby, to show others ur stolen history?? Im not talking for the history of Crete, coz i like the history of Crete, and other pre-hellenic civilization. Ok?....With honor Polemidas? Do u really think u have honor??

**Eastern Roman** · January 05, 2008, 05:11 PM

hahaha.... lol guys
Nikron is guy who thinks his country(Albania) had conquered the world lol....
Arvanites are greeks... Maniates live in Mani, famous for it's resistance when greece were under the turks... Arcadians live in Arcadia, Athenians live in Athens etc...

Sparta was destroyed, yes due to it's laws and way a living, spartans could not develop their city, so it could not grow again... Sparta lost it's value and fall in dark age... Today's Sparta's modern inhabitants of sparta are partly decended of the old ones. Greeks from sparta mixed with other greeks perhaps during the time of byzantine empire and the first years of the independence of greece cause Peloponnese( where sparta is) was from the first places that join the new greek state, people moved there from north greece (macedonia, ipeiros, thrace) asia minor, to live there us free people...
Expect of that, we know that goths invaded greece, serbians, huns, turks so that mixed the people there even more.

Few words about our ambition friend (Nikron)
I don't now and we can't be sure if albanians are illyrians or any other nation who lived in the south balkans. Some say they came with the huns and they were they slaves, who took care the horses, or with the serbians, bulgarians later. Albania has nothing to do with arbanites, ancient greece or modern. Since albanians gain great influence form the turks ( religion for example), some say they are turks, moved there from the heart of the asia, which was used in old times.
Modern Albanian, gain it's independence from italy, who simply didn't let the greeks( in the Balkan wars, WW1, WW2) to expand their power in the Adriatic sea. Modern south albanian, also called north epeiros was the last old greek land, with greeks live in it, not join greek nation.

Go read a book kid...

**thebigsalad** · January 05, 2008, 11:00 PM

DarylB if you're interested in Hellenic Polytheism, I'd suggest looking at http://www.neokoroi.org/ and http://www.hellenion.org/
Be warned that Neokoroi has a very high volume discussion list... you can waste a day reading that stuff

If you decide that you really are interested, you might be suprised about the number of members around... I know there's been quite a revival in Greece, and Hellenes aren't uncommon in America, though they tend to butt heads with Wiccans. In Australia I only knew of one Hellene on the west coast and she moved south before I ever met her!

**Nikron** · January 06, 2008, 04:25 AM

Hahahahhaha, karakalos call me kid. Im a kid by my age, but u r a kid by ur brain...I never said that albanians conquered the world, u said that greeks were so much in number and conquered asia minor, balkans, italy and who knows what they conquered...Dont forget that in the 19th century 1/3 of the population of greece was arvanite...Now about the arvanites. U say they are not albanians, and albanians are huns, slaves, serbs, bulgarians, turks. How can u say that? We are one of the most unmixed race of the world. We are white, tall, we have brakicefaly. With some words, we are not like u, short, dark skinned ( normally, turks have done their work, all the greek girls hmmmmmm )...In albania, no turk touched an albanian girl, coz when a village felt, for them was better to die, than to be in bed with turks. Remember, the dance of Zalongo, the dance of Kruja, and many other albanian dances. In greece this never happened. And why arvanites are not albanians? They carry the name of our country, Arbania ( then the other europeans changed it, they called it Albania, but the original form is with "r", not "l" ), they speak albanian, they have albanian trditional clothes ( fustanella, used since old times in albania ). In the albanian city of Vlora, in a village called Smokthina, was found a man with fustanella, dating in the 4th century AD, and other illyrian pictures in stone, that had some men with fustanella. Later, after the arvanites liberated Greece, coz greeks, as Lord Byron said in his famous book, greeks only cried when they were under turkish invasion, and were some stupid slaves. Albanians revolted counter Ottoman Empire every 30 years, for 5 century. And the geograph of the english king, said that albania was from modern Kosova, Montenegro, to Aetolia in the south. Ur nickname karakalos, has a beautiful meaning in albanian. Is better to dont say the meaning...hahahahahhah....grow up kid....pfffff....u live only with ur fantasy....u think u r the sons of Hercules....hahahhaha

**Eastern Roman** · January 06, 2008, 07:20 AM