Milanese to Genoese proposition

[delra]

Yeah, they won't be huge at the beginning. Our business is to make them grow huge quickly.

One thing we could do is boosting income and growth in the city of Genoa just like KK did for all other capitals.

Also nice barracks could help their early conquest. They would probably hit Florence first, then Ajaccio and Marseille following with Bern and Milan. After that they can land in Palma like Milan does now and meddle into french affairs. This is how I imagine their potential progress.

I doubt we will ever force them to take Antioch, Caffa, Iraklion and so on... Colonies aren't working good in M2TW anyway. But at least we can have a strong competitor for Venice, France and HRE.

[Echad]

Yeah, they won't be huge at the beginning. Our business is to make them grow huge quickly.

One thing we could do is boosting income and growth in the city of Genoa just like KK did for all other capitals.

Also nice barracks could help their early conquest. They would probably hit Florence first, then Ajaccio and Marseille following with Bern and Milan. After that they can land in Palma like Milan does now and meddle into french affairs. This is how I imagine their potential progress.

I doubt we will ever force them to take Antioch, Caffa, Iraklion and so on... Colonies aren't working good in M2TW anyway. But at least we can have a strong competitor for Venice, France and HRE.

Just give them Milan at the start, as it is already in SS and was in vanilla! I'll check the Vespers.

[delra]

I'd rather make them more maritime with Ajaccio and Cagliari, but well, Milan works too as it's probably less work and more profit.

[Echad]

I'd rather make them more maritime with Ajaccio and Cagliari, but well, Milan works too as it's probably less work and more profit.

They should have a castle... In Vespers they are not a Republic in 1080, but "Compagna Communis Genuensis", and are "Repùblica di Genua" in the late era campaign... The SV mod aims for historical accuracy and the SS is a little offset, featuring "Kingdom of Portugal" and "Republic of Novgorod" in 1080, but it's more fun this way! So having Genoa owning Milan in 1080 won't be anything wrong, especially since Venice didn't own Ancona, as it's in the game.

[delra]

Ajaccio and Cagliari are castles, Milan isn't...

[Inhuman One]

Maybe make Milan a rebel province and give them something else? that will also help them differ from Milan.

[Echad]

Ajaccio and Cagliari are castles, Milan isn't...

Whoa? Sec, I'll check everything... I thought every nation owns a castle and a city at the start, and Milan owned Genoa and itself...

I see... Well, Genoa HAS a port at the start!

[delra]

No, there are factions who have no castles at all. Milan is one of them, Aragon also doesn't have any. Novgorod has three cities too. It's not a requirement to have a castle. Especially that with their excellent militia, Genoa won't need one.

[Echad]

No, there are factions who have no castles at all. Milan is one of them, Aragon also doesn't have any. Novgorod has three cities too. It's not a requirement to have a castle. Especially that with their excellent militia, Genoa won't need one.

Aha, I see, than I will just swap Milan and Genoa in the descr_strat for Genoa to be bigger...

We (or KK) may think of a better solution later. For now I'll just release a preview... Wait for it!

Edit: Genoa had Doge from 1300+, but who ruled it before, anyone got the information?

[Sidmen]

Before 1100, Genoa emerged as an independent city-state, one of a number of Italian city-states during this period. Nominally, the Holy Roman Emperor was overlord and the Bishop of Genoa was president of the city; however, actual power was wielded by a number of "consuls" annually elected by popular assembly.

As far as I can tell it remained like this till the dodges were elected.

[delra]

The reality was that Genoa was run like it was a private company, so rather a corporation than a bishopric. So no bishop, rather a consul should be in REAL charge there.

It's a shame we can't have different types of goverment and election systems for republics in the game. It would be awesome if we could simulate internal struggle between families...

[Echad]

The reality was that Genoa was run like it was a private company, so rather a corporation than a bishopric. So no bishop, rather a consul should be in REAL charge there.

It's a shame we can't have different types of goverment and election systems for republics in the game. It would be awesome if we could simulate internal struggle between families...

Aha... And what about knighly orders system, like Teutons do have, would it be of any use to implement them for republics, such as Novgorod, Venice or Genoa?

[delra]

I don't know them. Haven't played Kingdoms long enough. Is this implemented for Templars? When playing them I haven't noticed any knightly order type of ruling, just normal father-son salic stuff.

[Sidmen]

Is the 'choose a ruler' thing still an option from Rome? If so, we could start a family tree with a bunch of unrelated people and choose who will be the next 'high consul' or something.

[delra]

You can't choose a heir in M2TW. It's hardcoded and is one of the ugliest things CA did here.

Guys making mods like EB2 cry at nights because of that...

[Sidmen]

LOL.

We could cheat and just give every family member the 'consul' title. That should work...

[delra]

But there still has to be a ruler and a heir. Whatever we name them. Could be even archmage... :-)

[Sarpedon]

Just got up; I'll see what I can dig up over the course of today on historic details (Genoese independence, titles, rulers etc.)
I have been going back and forth on the consul/bishop leadership. We could have 'Consul' as the head and have him start with the 'ordained' trait, to indicate some sort of religious affiliation. Or set up a oligarchy type title, (i.e. Pro-Consul, Premier, Co-Consul, legate etc.) I will see about titles today.
I also agree about good relations with the Pope, what do you think about good relations with Byzantium since there are some historical affiliations and it makes sense that they would be chummy with enemies to Venice.
In terms of units, I like some of Recon's suggestions and maybe supplemental units like "Lombard Knights/ Cavalry/Light Cavalry", I also like the idea of incorporating some sort of pirate/light infantry raiding unit. Like 'Barbary Corsairs (could make this a mercenary unit, Genoese Marines etc. something that represents the units that would do mostly trade post protection, pirate hunting etc.
Also I have always been a fan of making Central-Northern Italian governors getting Ghibelline or Guelph traits (affecting Piety, authority, loyalty -we can really make it do any number of things) and this seems like as god a time as any to bring it up.

[Echad]

I'm in a halfway of realeasing the first Milan-Genoa convertion pack, which will feature new Coat of Arms, faction name and map color!

It will come packed with my Fix Pack, some optional tweaks and wolfslayer's latest beta smoke/effects fix!

The only issue I had so far is that Spain (Leon-Castille) already occupies the golden color, so I made Genoa amber! =)

[delra]

I agree regarding Genoa-Byzantium treaties. They are very logical and also will fit in very nice into the game.

They both hate Venice so they should start very friendly... Be natural partners for an alliance. Just like Scotland and France...