Hope more accurate voice commands this time.

[GiorgioIII]

I recently heard the Greek sounds on the original barbarorum and they were hillarious,, nothing to do with Greek. The ending oi in most of the units sounds simply i forget the o.

[Foot]

Well, you know, we use ancient greek, not modern greek. There is a difference you know.

Foot

[Admetos]

First of all, next time you want want to post about the mod, be polite and enquire about your view, not just insult the team. You're obviously new to EB GiorgioIII, because if you weren't then you'd know the lenghts the team go to to ensure EVERYTHING is as near to historical accuracy as possible, and you wouldn't even dream of insulting them and basically slapping them around the face and saying "you're wrong". Well, it'd be intersting to know what kind of qualifications you've got in ancient language. PhD? Major? Because many of the EB team are EXTREMELY qualified and I'm sure they know a world more than you do. It's a pity that this is a public forum, because if it wasn't then maybe I could say what I really think about you after that post, let's just say I'm angered. And I can't imagine how much more angry I'd be if I was on the team, I'm suprised Foot was so polite...

[GiorgioIII]

Sorry if i made you feel like that.And yes i am new to EB . And to answer your question i did ancient Greek 3 years in school (oh yes i am Greek). I didn't mean to insult anyone and i don't even think my post is insulting. I am just saying that even though the units are written historically accurate they don't sound like as they should. Ending oi in modern and ancient Greek is sound simply i. Ending ai is sound like e.That is my opinion and it cannot change, after all this is a freely speaking forum.

[Aru]

I think I may have one little critique.
There was one thureophoroi (doh, something like that, you know what I mean) mercenary unit I thought I heard say R like English speaker would say. Not wholly even, it's something between hard R and English.
Is that supposed to be pronounced like that? I have a feeling Greeks say (said) hard R, something like Slavs. Latin units say it ok, and most Greek, if not all except that one (I think).

I know, it's not even the real critique, nor do I mind it, all the voices are made great, but I just notice it every time I hear it. (As I said, it doesn't bother me, kudos to the makers of voice-mod, great job).

Actually I just need someone to confirm I really heard it, and to tell me how was R pronounced in ancient Greek.

[Ludens]

Let's keep it friendly here, shall we? You are not going to convince someone he's wrong by shouting at them.

GiorgioIII, there are a couple of controversies about how ancient Greek was spoken. You should have a look at this topic: it explains why the team chose the current pronunciation. For the record: the recordings were made by a Greek.

[GiorgioIII]

Actually I just need someone to confirm I really heard it, and to tell me how was R pronounced in ancient Greek.

R was clearly heard in the words not eliminated. For example ρομαιοι (romans)
was pronounced {romei} not {omei} or {romiioi}

[Keravnos]

Sorry if i made you feel like that.And yes i am new to EB . And to answer your question i did ancient Greek 3 years in school (oh yes i am Greek). I didn't mean to insult anyone and i don't even think my post is insulting. I am just saying that even though the units are written historically accurate they don't sound like as they should. Ending oi in modern and ancient Greek is sound simply i. Ending ai is sound like e.That is my opinion and it cannot change, after all this is a freely speaking forum.

Let me give you some links. I saved those just for people like you.

just one,
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...3&postcount=22

[GiorgioIII]

And here is something for people like you

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~ancgre...c_practU1.html

click and hear

[Admetos]

To be honest Giorgio, you're wasting your time arguing with someone like Keravnos.

[Keravnos]

And how are those examples you mentioned different from what is heard in the mod exactly?

:hmmm:

In the timeline EB begins, fi or "φ" was called p+h. We know this because the Romani who used to joke making greeks spell "f" and couldn't, causing the Romans to laugh. If this was the case during the time the Romani conquered Greece, I suppose it was the case earlier.

θ, ορ t+h is much the same story. At the time of EB the most usual spelling was a "heavy t".

δ was more like an english "d" hadn't yet acquired the sound it now has in modern greek.

ζ was the only one which had dropped the "dz" sound into like our modern "z" so far as I know. I may be proven wrong but I think the change had taken place.

I am not saying I am correct all the time. In fact it is more than possible that in Attic greek (which is the voicemods' language), "Hippeis" would be spelled "hippes" as in everyday speech back then the "e+i" dipthong was shortened to "e". However there is no way to know whether this happened all over the greek world or it is an athenian only phaenomenon.

Also bear in mind that there was some thraikian influence in the greek language of yore. In Thraikian language (a different language than greek altogether), "ph" dipthong had become p, "th" d or t. That means that northern greeks being in constant contact with the Thraikians would deffinitely have an accent closer to them, not the southerns.

Not to mention that Makedonians actually changed the dialect of the language they were using only in their upper echelon of society. The people would still be using the dorian "northwestern" dialect of greek.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-Western_Greek
The Makedonian sub-branch of NW greek,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient...onian_language

I think you will find many interesting things in those links.

[Quinctilius Varus]

I recently heard the Greek sounds on the original barbarorum and they were hillarious,, nothing to do with Greek. The ending oi in most of the units sounds simply i forget the o.

who care? they were Graeculi good only for be killed by the Romans (just kidding )

[Hax]

Filthy Romaioi dogs. They should bow down to their true Epeirote masters.

[Keravnos]

who care? they were Graeculi good only for be killed by the Romans (just kidding )

Well, that is deffinitely what I expected a Romani to say!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The original swear word for the Romani by Greeks was "Οπικοι" or a stone age lookalike tribe that the Greeks had subdued when colonizing Italy. -meaning "dumb as a rock", some historical name calling for you...

[Etepete]

It is obvious that the EBII team has done all the research that could be asked and more, and I'm really happy to see an ambitious and well-researched approach to the original language. And they/you have put in a lot of effort, time and talent. Tons of Kudos.

This is why it _really_ pains me to say that from what I've heard so far, it is still a weakness. The problem is one of pronunciation. The english accent is quite audible in all the files so far. And for that matter on the pronunciation website you linked too. Obviously, every nation has its own accent when it comes to pronouncing ancient languages, but none is as notoriously thick as the british or the american one - so this is no way reflects on the ability of the EB team in itself.

There are other options: finns, for instance are renowned for a rather neutral pronounciation of latin. And of course: if the Latin would be pronounced in an italian accent, or the Koine in a greek one, then who are we to complain?

I realise that this is a controversial topic, and I can but profess my own standpoint. I really hope that the EB II team will strive for a more "neutral" pronunciation. I recognize the tremendous effort already put into producing the audio for this game. I hope my concerns in this regard can be taken on board as the constructive criticism it is intended to be.

[Zenith Darksea]

Well, I'm a Classics student at university who has studied ancient Greek phonetics. I've read the most authoritative works on ancient Greek pronunciation and I've heard lectures from some of the most authoritative lecturers. And let me tell you -

Greek pronunciation has changed in the last 2300 years!

Believe it or not, modern Greek pronunciation is not the same as ancient Greek pronunciation. The only people who will claim that it is the same are ill-educated Greek nationalists. Although I am a great lover of the modern Greek nation and have a great fondness for the Greeks, if there is one thing about them that annoys me it's when they come and try to claim that ancient Greece was exactly like modern Greece.

[Etepete]

Yup, and I should clarify I totally agree with the EB crew on the main point here: -oi is "oy" not "i", -ai is "ay" not "e" etc, as far as I know. I only did one year of ancient greek though...

Lets not confuse modern and classic greek

[Tyrtaios]

"somatophùlakes strategoù" is "somatophùlakes strategù"....
I noticed that the "ou" pronunciation is "où" in the mod, but the ancent greek pronuntiation was "ù", not "où".

(I am italian and I am not good at english. I ask sorry if my english is not good. But i could write in latin or greek ).

[I-Trojan-I]

ROFL I love it how everything on twcenter turns into a heated debate.

[born2dive67]

And how are those examples you mentioned different from what is heard in the mod exactly?

:hmmm:

In the timeline EB begins, fi or "φ" was called p+h. We know this because the Romani who used to joke making greeks spell "f" and couldn't, causing the Romans to laugh. If this was the case during the time the Romani conquered Greece, I suppose it was the case earlier.

θ, ορ t+h is much the same story. At the time of EB the most usual spelling was a "heavy t".

δ was more like an english "d" hadn't yet acquired the sound it now has in modern greek.

ζ was the only one which had dropped the "dz" sound into like our modern "z" so far as I know. I may be proven wrong but I think the change had taken place.

I am not saying I am correct all the time. In fact it is more than possible that in Attic greek (which is the voicemods' language), "Hippeis" would be spelled "hippes" as in everyday speech back then the "e+i" dipthong was shortened to "e". However there is no way to know whether this happened all over the greek world or it is an athenian only phaenomenon.

Also bear in mind that there was some thraikian influence in the greek language of yore. In Thraikian language (a different language than greek altogether), "ph" dipthong had become p, "th" d or t. That means that northern greeks being in constant contact with the Thraikians would deffinitely have an accent closer to them, not the southerns.

Not to mention that Makedonians actually changed the dialect of the language they were using only in their upper echelon of society. The people would still be using the dorian "northwestern" dialect of greek.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-Western_Greek
The Makedonian sub-branch of NW greek,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient...onian_language

I think you will find many interesting things in those links.

I finally get to say this and its actually true " It's all greek to me" lol don't have a clue of the impact that a voice would have on game play. To me as long as it sounds like a greek accent, i could care less what age that accent is. but if its speaking complete greek to me then i will be bummed cause i wont have a clue what you programmed this game to say at me
As long as the accent is greek, for greek troops and not a British accent its all good to me thumbs up to the team for sticking their ground