Cvria Ivlia, Consulate of Sabinus/Lepidus

[Winter]

"Do not twist my wish for economic wellbeing into just cause for war! The Italians have not provoked us in any way, Quaestor, and I have yet to see any Casus Belli for an attack on them. We must concentrate on the tyrant Pyrrhus, he must be smashed in south Italy.

Economic reforms, such as increases in farming, better road networks, and updated port infrastructure, should immediately follow."

"Senior Consul, may we see a report indicating our current military strength?"

[Caesar Rex]

If you will wait, I will send one of my lictors to rattle the cage of my legate Marcus Valerius.

lictor... lictor... yes you. Go and get that report from Marcus. He is on the campus as we speak. And run fool.

ooc: go to http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=136888 for my suggestions!!!

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

"Do not twist my wish for economic wellbeing into just cause for war! The Italians have not provoked us in any way, Quaestor, and I have yet to see any Casus Belli for an attack on them. We must concentrate on the tyrant Pyrrhus, he must be smashed in south Italy.

Economic reforms, such as increases in farming, better road networks, and updated port infrastructure, should immediately follow."

"Senior Consul, may we see a report indicating our current military strength?"

I protest, Consul Lepidus. They WILL be a barrier against us in our fight against Pyrrhus, to the South. They'll block our supplies, ambush our armies, they think they can defy us! Currently, the Calabrians have no official alliance with Pyrrhus, but surely they want his heavy tyrant hands destroying, looting and burning Rome. Do you think I can't see their intentions, Consul? They are our foes, currently in a state of hostily, and will await our first vulnerability to join Pyrrhus in a Crusade to smash us and give Italy back to the Greeks! Time is not for concialiatory deals, treaties, or diplomatic arrangements! Time is for Iron and Blood, Consul and Noble Senators! To that, we must focus our economy into raising legions to crush our foes and secure our threatened borders!

[Winter]

"Surley, Quaestor, you will be willing to share your source of omniscience with this body? Have you sent your own envoys to the Calabrians? Perhaps they are on our side in this war, against the tyrant. You speak words of war and destruction, and we must be sure they are well informed."

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

"Surley, Quaestor, you will be willing to share your source of omniscience with this body? Have you sent your own envoys to the Calabrians? Perhaps they are on our side in this war, against the tyrant. You speak words of war and destruction, and we must be sure they are well informed."

I'm not omnscient, Consul Lepidus, but I know, and many here too, when an enemy is ready to stab us in the back or hamper our progress if we don't do anything about it. The Calabrians will block our way to Pyrrhus! My immediate suggestion is to send the legions there, then attack Pyrrhus, instead of waiting for him and the Calabrians to invade our Roman lands! Death to the Calabrian parasites!

[Kritias]

Censor Claudius was all that time hearing the other senators debating;He then got up from his chair and walked in the middle of the Curia.He raised his hands in an oratory stance and said these:

<<Senators of the Republic;This is a dark day and we are presented with a dilemma;Should we march against Pyrrhus and his minions south,recapture the city of Tarentum and hold there or shall we unite all Italy under our banners?While the answer to that is more than complicated,I cannot by think what would the people want us to do.We are the leaders of the state,Senators,make no mistake;The roman people want a vision;The glory of ROME;Can we do anything less?>>

[Winter]

"You would send our limited legions to face an undecided observer of this war while our true enemy sits and watches? Destroy an insignificant power, weakening our legions while our enemy grows ever stronger? Foolishness, utterly ludicrous! We must attack Pyrrhus now, while he is not prepared to invade! Leave the Calabrians be, they have done us no harm in the past and certainly do us none by remaining on the sidelines."

" To senator Constantinus, my family was once one of the people, the plebeians. We are now of the Nobilitas but we remember what it means to be of a lower rank. They want nothing more than their daily food, a good house, a dependable job, and happiness. What will war with the powers of Italy bring? Death, destruction, and despair! This is foolhardy."

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Censor Claudius was all that time hearing the other senators debating;He then got up from his chair and walked in the middle of the Curia.He raised his hands in an oratory stance and said these:

<<Senators of the Republic;This is a dark day and we are presented with a dilemma;Should we march against Pyrrhus and his minions south,recapture the city of Tarentum and hold there or shall we unite all Italy under our banners?While the answer to that is more than complicated,I cannot by think what would the people want us to do.We are the leaders of the state,Senators,make no mistake;The roman people want a vision;The glory of ROME;Can we do anything less?>>

Let the Roman People and the Senate decide by vote what action shall we take first! The will of the majority is unquestionable!

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

"You would send our limited legions to face an undecided observer of this war while our true enemy sits and watches? Destroy an insignifigant power, weakening our legions while our enemy grows ever stronger? Foolishness, utterly ludicrous! We must attack Pyrrhus now, while he is not prepared to invade! Leave the Calabrians be, they have done us no harm in the past and certainly do us none by remaining on the sidelines."

That is the Real point of this discussion, Senator! Will the Calabrians do us any harm? Methinks, that were they some kind of backwards slum in Northern Italy, or in an Island in the Mediterranean, or in Sicily, they would pose us no harm. But they're right next to Pyrrhus, and as such, they'll be a foe, because they're simpathetic towards the tyrant's cause, and because their position is of strategical importance! I say, let's build our legions, then waste no time and declare WAR upon the Calabrians and Pyrrhus!

[Winter]

You assume that a nations geographical position determines their alignment. I say, let us get agents into their settlements and find out their mind. If they have not built up their forces on our border, I would say they mean us no harm. If they have, they probably do. If their army remains stationary, they are probably afraid that one of the two greater powers in this war will attack them, and are only waiting to see who it will be. Listening to you, that power would no doubt be us.

[EmperorCharles]

ooc.OK then I guess I am praetor.

Let us proceed in all things with care. Before we decide the fate of the men of Roma let us know what the situation is. It is understood that Pyrrhus is in the south but with how many men, what quality and who supports him.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

You assume that a nations geographical position determines their alignment. I say, let us get agents into their settlements and find out their mind. If they have not built up their forces on our border, I would say they mean us no harm. If they have, they probably do. If their army remains stationary, they are probably afraid that one of the two greater powers in this war will attack them, and are only waiting to see who it will be. Listening to you, that power would no doubt be us.

Senator, you forgot our past wars with the Greeks in the Peninsula. You forgot they have their trade and ethnical interests on Pyrrhus side. You forgot that, like Pyrrhus, they're treacherous Greeks, who hate us, who fought us in the past, and who lost against us! I say, have no mercy upon them, even if they hide now, what about the future? What if a horde of Gauls reaches our northern border? Will they be peaceful and honest, or will they stab us in the back in the moment of greatest fragility? I say, they're ripe for conquest even if they hide their true intentions now. Let's us end this annoyance now, wipe out the Calabrians, wipe out Pyrrhus, share the loot and be not affraid again! I do not trust them, Senators, and their treacherous nature will soon lead them to leave their covens and attack us, creating problems that we can avoid now by conquering them together with Pyrrhus!

[Winter]

Thank you Praetor. The Consul should send agents out as soon as he can.

Then, Quaestor, your wish to destroy the Calabrians comes down to your ethical hatred of Greeks. I pity you. Do you not remember that we are spawned from the Greeks of Troy, that we in some way share a blood lineage with these people you so wish to kill. It is a shame that you have let you passion cloud your judgment here today."

[Kritias]

Censor Claudius Constantinus(CCC or 3C) now speaks:

<< I would feel much safer for our legions if Pyrrhus is stopped from getting a foothold in the Italian Peninsula;He currently holds a town,which can give him no reinforcements - If he manages to move up to Cannae he will have two cities and already built military facilities to retrain and refit his men; We need to make the first move,Senators! Also,I feel that leaving the free cities of the South independent would only give ground for a future counteroffensive of the Epirotes or another power landing in Italy;We must not give them a city,a fortress to possess in our land,something that we will do if we don't force via diplomacy or the gladius the free Italian cities to join the Republic>>

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

" To senator Constantinus, my family was once one of the people, the plebeians. We are now of the Nobilitas but we remember what it means to be of a lower rank. They want nothing more than their daily food, a good house, a dependable job, and happiness. What will war with the powers of Italy bring? Death, destruction, and despair! This is foolhardy."

War will bring Roman conquest. Roman conquest will bring Pax Romana. Pax Romana will bring abundant lands, for plebeian and patrician alike, to live and prosper. War will make us rich, and will give the opportunity for the poor who live in Rome to settle new lands and live a better life! Pax Romana will bring harmony to the land, and prosperity, infinite prosperity, culture and civilization!

[Winter]

There is always someone to fight, senator. If not on the outside, then on the inside.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Then, Quaestor, your wish to destroy the Calabrians comes down to your ethical hatred of Greeks. I pity you. Do you not remember that we are spawned from the Greeks of Troy, that we in some way share a blood lineage with these people you so wish to kill. It is a shame that you have let you passion cloud your judgment here today."

If the Greeks were to become our allies, if Pyrrhus was to become our ally! But then, they aren't! My mission, noble Senators, is not to exterminate the Greeks! I love greek culture, and philosophy, and we Romans can learn much from them! But first, we must acomplish our mission of liberating Greece, Calabria and Tarentum from the hands of their petty tyrants and giving them the true freedom under the hands of the Republic! That's our greatest gift to our Greek neighbors in all history!

[Kritias]

Censor Claudius rises with an ironic smile on his face:

<<Perhaps the good consul would have us surrender or climb a tree to save our skins from our enemies?Yes,Consul,there will always be someone to fight;Is then all our efforts in vain? No - I would rather see Rome prospering and ruling a thousand nations instead of being cut to pieces by her enemies.War is a necessary evil,but still essential in survival;>>

[Winter]

You claim to love Greek culture, and call for the Greeks to become our ally, and call them treacherous at the same time.

they're treacherous Greeks, who hate us, who fought us in the past, and who lost against us!

But for now we shall put aside this simple contradiction. We are getting nowhere with this petty argument and insult tactic. We should wait until my Co-Consul reports on the militaries of Pyrrhus and Calabria before action is taken.

To senator Constantinus: I was merely reacting to the Quaestors remark that rapid expansion could bring about a Pax Romana. No one wants to see Rome conquered.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I was talking, Consul Lepidus, about the petty group of tyrans and people who oppose us, not the majority of the Greeks. So, this isn't a contradiction!

And I agree, let's wait for more. But I'm warning you, Consul: war is the inevitable outcome. We can choose to delay it! But if we do so, the enemy will come with double strenght to our doors, in all fronts! We must strike hard, after we're ready, and when we have the chance to put Pyrrhus to run!