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Thread: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit 1.0) Version 6.0

  1. #81

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    Polish foot knights with that mace and without helmet is total fiction. Please change the mace to 1h axe at least, and put a helmet on their heads – I would recommend szlom helmet (similar to the one of the upgraded mounted crossbowmen).
    1. Please listen to the moderator, I'd hate to see you get banned.
    2. If you want to make me a new model that features a chapel-de-fer style helmet I'd be very appreciative.
    3. Soldiers armored in mail hauberk with an attached or detached mail coif were commonplace throughout the middle ages. These soldiers may simply not be able to afford a helmet or may have removed them momentarily. There are plenty of contemporary illustrations of soldiers with simple mail coifs to support my inclusion of this unit in this manner. A good reference for this is English Medieval Knight 1200-1300 by C. Gravett. See pages 15, 24, E15, and 54. See Medieval Scandinavian Armies (1) and (2) by D. Lindholm & D. Nicolle, as well as German Medieval Armies (1) and (2) by Christopher Gravett, in addition you could reference Hungary and the Fall of Eastern Europe by D. Nicolle, all of which I own and used for reference in my mod.
    4. It was very common practice to wear your mail hood over your skull cap helmet, or "arming cap", which could be made of metal or leather. It's not unrealistic that some of the fellows in my unit have such helmets beneath their coifs (thought this is a stretch, of course).
    5. Maces were a common melee weapon throughout the middle ages, especially for use against armored heavy infantry. Maces can be found in armies from the Islamic Fertile Crescent (The Armies of Islam by D Nicolle, page 24, illustration a4) to England (English Medieval Knight 1200-1300 by Christopher Gravett, page 33, illustration a1). Maces were especially favored by religious orders and even moreso by armed clergy, since the Bible commands to "slay not with the edge of the sword". Having a unit of "foot knights" armed with maces is completely plausible.
    6. I do not have a book on strictly Polish infantry only, so, I had to improvise.
    7. As I stated in my readme, I simply retextured the "baltest_mace" model already found in the game files. I did not, and could not, create that model. If you can make one for me, I'm all ears.

    Thank you for your feedback. If you have any models that feature helmets and swords that you are working on, please let me know. Otherwise, sit back and enjoy the mod, or go and enjoy somebody elses.

    Cheers,
    Candelarius

  2. #82

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Darkwing View Post
    I know this is totally off-topic, but Silesian Noble, do me a favor and read my pm - I haven't banned you from our mod forums!
    I've read it already and I'm not angry on you. Though the new admin should have sent PM about his decision with explanation inside at least.

    I do not have a book on strictly Polish infantry only, so, I had to improvise.
    Exactly. While Poland is different then typical western country. Such mace is really inappropriate for Polish foot knight. Every Polish historian would say that, as this was not common or popular weapon in Poland. I wish you could switch the weapon… Anyway your pack is still delicious
    Last edited by Silesian_Noble; January 06, 2008 at 06:16 PM.

  3. #83
    Elric von Rabenfels's Avatar The Devil Inside
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    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Whew.. them I'm glad
    Sorry for hiijacking this thread Candelarius!

    Hmm.. question to not be totally off-topic:

    Is the unit balance made for any special mod, or vanilla?
    - What can change the nature of a man?

  4. #84

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Darkwing View Post
    Whew.. them I'm glad
    Sorry for hiijacking this thread Candelarius!

    Hmm.. question to not be totally off-topic:

    Is the unit balance made for any special mod, or vanilla?
    That's on topic silly! This mod is for the Retrofit Mod 1.0. Is that what you meant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    Exactly. While Poland is different then typical western country. Such mace is really inappropriate for Polish foot knight. Every Polish historian would say that, as this was not common or popular weapon in Poland. I wish you could switch the weapon… Anyway your pack is still delicious
    Hmmm....well, this is the first I've heard of Polish troops never using maces. I find that surprising, since in Hungary and the Fall of Eastern Europe there are pictures of Bulgarians, Serbs, Byzantines, and Albanians all with maces or mentioned possibly using maces. Anyway, if we can have Byzantine Flamethrowers we can have Polish Macemen! lol
    Last edited by Candelarius; January 06, 2008 at 07:32 PM.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Can't wait for the update, a big thank you for including the Kingdoms models. This will pretty much be exactly what I was hoping for from the Retrofit mod. Something to transfer all the updated AI, features and pretty graphics over from Kingdoms into the Grand Campaign.

    My opinion on the historical accuracy issue is to just leave it be. I'm sure nobody plays Medieval for a history lesson.

  6. #86
    Elric von Rabenfels's Avatar The Devil Inside
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    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Candelarius View Post
    That's on topic silly! This mod is for the Retrofit Mod 1.0. Is that what you meant?

    Yep, that's it, thanks ^^

    Btw..
    1. Please listen to the moderator, I'd hate to see you get banned.
    That sentence is wrong. I'm not mod anymore.

    I agree on the history part, just leave it be.
    - What can change the nature of a man?

  7. #87

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    @Raven

    Oh, I thought you were a moderator warning Silesian_Noble about something. Nevermind. Duh.

    @Lord Snow

    No problem, you're welcome. I remember SSJ talking about adding in Kingdoms King models, but, I wasn't interested since I like the existing battlemap models just fine....but I didn't even think about adding the King models for the stratmap.

    Anyway, I'm uploading the new mod now, should take about an hour from now (I have a slow DSL connection).

    Note: I had said I didn't want this mod to become one of those "patch of the week" mods, and, I still feel that way. So, for those that are scratching their heads wondering why I keep making a patch every week....um....nevermind.

  8. #88

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    MINOR UPDATE

    I uploaded a new patch (version 4) and a new full installer today that contains a minor graphical enhancement. It was suggested to me that I include the Kingdoms king and sultan strat map models for the faction leader of each faction, and I agreed that would indeed be cool. So, every faction now has a unique strat map model for their faction leader, just like in Kingdoms. No other changes are included. This will probably be the last update to this mod as I can't think of any more Kingdoms content that is really worth adding and I'm also at the hardcoded unit cap (I tried to add another unit and failed, trust me) without removing existing units, which I don't want to do. So, the mod should be done unless a bug crops up somewhere at which point I'll of course patch it. The current full installer is up to date and the patch brings version 3 up to version 4. The patch and the full installer are both save-game compatible, meaning your saved game will work with the patch, but, the new strat models will not be available until you start a new campaign. See the first post in this thread for the download links.
    Last edited by Candelarius; January 06, 2008 at 11:49 PM.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Hmmm....well, this is the first I've heard of Polish troops never using maces.
    I didn’t say Polish never used maces. They did, but very rare and therefore mace is not good weaponry for typical Polish knight.

    I find that surprising, since in Hungary and the Fall of Eastern Europe there are pictures of Bulgarians, Serbs, Byzantines, and Albanians all with maces or mentioned possibly using maces.
    But countries you listened are located in Balkan region, where was different culture, warfare and enemies. Poland and Hungary were during history always great friends, never fought against each other, perhaps that is why mace never got such popularity as in its neighbors.

    Anyway, if we can have Byzantine Flamethrowers we can have Polish Macemen! lol
    This time I have to agree Anyway, if anytime a possibility to switch that weapon appear, please take advantage of it

    Cheers.

  10. #90

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    I didn’t say Polish never used maces. They did, but very rare and therefore mace is not good weaponry for typical Polish knight.

    But countries you listened are located in Balkan region, where was different culture, warfare and enemies. Poland and Hungary were during history always great friends, never fought against each other, perhaps that is why mace never got such popularity as in its neighbors.
    I could have also mentioned Germany and the Teutonic Order.

    This time I have to agree Anyway, if anytime a possibility to switch that weapon appear, please take advantage of it

    Cheers.
    If it were possible to change out weapons easily, trust me, I would. But for now we'll consider this to be in the same vein of believability with other quasi-historical units in the game. Your feedback is very much appreciated though.

  11. #91
    Otherside's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Im really interested in downloading this mod however my pc wont let me use file front not a clue why but if you could host this somewhere else i would be grateful.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Why can you not use Filefront? It's a major PC downloading site. Try changing your internet security settings, deleting your cookies and temp internet files, etc. Maybe try downloading from your local library and zapping the mod to a flash disk or burning it to a CDROM and then bringing it home to install?

    I really prefer to use Filefront so I can have a single site to update when I make a revision, I have unlimited storage space, and I can track how many people download my files. I basically have all my personal modding files located on Filefront.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    I've read it already and I'm not angry on you. Though the new admin should have sent PM about his decision with explanation inside at least.


    Exactly. While Poland is different then typical western country. Such mace is really inappropriate for Polish foot knight. Every Polish historian would say that, as this was not common or popular weapon in Poland. I wish you could switch the weapon… Anyway your pack is still delicious

    I take it you have never looked at the Maciejowski Bible then....which is of course Polish.

    Here are some illustrations of maces in it.

    Also, as a historian, we are instructed from the beginning to recognize that people who make broad statements like "Every Polish historian" or "this was not common or popular weapon in Poland" as those who don't know wtf they are talking about.

    Most historians will admit that medieval armies varied as much in equipment within its ranks than between its nations.

    Also, I have a Teutonic Knight outfit and I indeed wear my skullcap under my coif, well, until I got a Great Helm and the skullcap wouldn't fit

  14. #94

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Stadler View Post
    I take it you have never looked at the Maciejowski Bible then....which is of course Polish.
    But written in France!

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Stadler View Post
    Also, as a historian, we are instructed from the beginning to recognize that people who make broad statements like "Every Polish historian" or "this was not common or popular weapon in Poland" as those who don't know wtf they are talking about.
    I have numerous historical books and articles about Polish medieval armies. Most appropriate in our issue is 'The home arsenals of Polish knights in medieval era' by Piotr Nowakowski, 2006y edition, which is scientific essay about Polish Knight's equipment. Also I have access to largest Polish historical forum, were tone of knowledge is accessible. So believe me, when it cmes to Polish medieval army - I know what I'm talking about
    Last edited by Silesian_Noble; January 07, 2008 at 07:39 PM.

  15. #95

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Run! Nationalism based arguments! Beware the winged Hussars!

  16. #96

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJPabs View Post
    Run! Nationalism based arguments! Beware the winged Hussars!
    I recommend you to contact a good psychiatrist, as your perception is far hypersensitive. Hopefully after few visits you won’t spam such idiotic accusations.
    Last edited by Silesian_Noble; January 07, 2008 at 07:38 PM.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Fair enough, but I can't believe that maces would not be at least moderately common by the time of Grunwald....swords were being rapidly seconded for axes and maces in an effort to combat plate armor, along with those evil "raven's beaks."

    Regardless, I think we all can agree that historical accuracy was now and then sacrificed in MTW for gameplay, or just for flavor (the horned helmets for the Teutonic Knights anyone?.....mostly myth).

  18. #98

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    I purchased a book on the Teutonic Knights for Christmas and was disappointed that not a single illustration, photo, or mention was made of winged or horned helmets.


    Run! Nationalism based arguments! Beware the winged Hussars!
    Last edited by Candelarius; January 07, 2008 at 08:40 PM.

  19. #99

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Candelarius View Post
    I purchased a book on the Teutonic Knights for Christmas and was disappointed that not a single illustration, photo, or mention was made of winged or horned helmets.





    That is because there are only 2 known depictions of it...one on an effigy and the other a Knight charging at the Battle of Lake Peipus. The latter most likely isn't even an Order knight but one of the Livonian Secular knights (maybe even the Archbishop of Riga).

    It was then blown out of proportion by Eisenstein in his film....hmm, wonder why, horned/demonic German knights in a Communist Russian film.....

    Out of curiosity, is that the new Osprey book that came out on the Teutonic Knights? If so, how is it?

  20. #100

    Default Re: Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit) by Candelarius

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Stadler View Post
    That is because there are only 2 known depictions of it...one on an effigy and the other a Knight charging at the Battle of Lake Peipus. The latter most likely isn't even an Order knight but one of the Livonian Secular knights (maybe even the Archbishop of Riga).

    It was then blown out of proportion by Eisenstein in his film....hmm, wonder why, horned/demonic German knights in a Communist Russian film.....

    Out of curiosity, is that the new Osprey book that came out on the Teutonic Knights? If so, how is it?
    Actually, it is the Osprey book. My wife bought me TWENTY Osprey books for Christmas. My collection is getting pretty impressive.

    The Teutonic book is great. It's pretty short and sweat, like all Osprey books, but the illustrations are, as always, stunning. There are a couple nice treatments of knights from different periods, with the usual exteme attention to detail and all sorts of weapons, equipment, helmet variations, flags, etc, all detailed in the plates. Then there are a couple plates of different battle scenes, one of which is really cool with a Lithuanian mounted trooper invading a Teutonic camp, and you see a full armored 13th century knight with great helm pulling his sword out, as the Lithuanian is bring his own sword down for the blow, but, in the background, about twenty feet away, you see another Teutonoic knight, of the guys with the tau emblem (a half brother), pulling back a crossbow, staring up at the mounted Lithuanian. I was struck by the scene, and immediately thought to myself both "hurry up, dammit, your friend is about to bite it" and at the same time "****, that crossbow would hurt at that close range". You can just see the frustration on the tau guys face (sorta, he has a cool full face nasal guard and full mail coif) as he is struggling to arm his weapon.

    Anyway, it's, as always, another great book in the series. I didn't dwell much on the arms and armor of the Teutonic knights, not as much as the English Knight series did, but focused more on the history, organization, and even social customs of the Brotherhood. Strongly recommended though, if only for the awesome plates....and only 12 bucks a piece or so at Amazon.

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