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Thread: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

  1. #1

    Default Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    I was wondering if the Hindu and Muslim unit rosters should be more polarized, meaning that the Muslim Indian factions (not sure what they are called but whatever the Pakistanis would be) like Ghazni(?) or Ghorids(?) should have more different rosters to reflect the drastic difference between Hinduism/Buddhism and Islam.

    What I mean in that for Ghorids or Ghazni or one of the Muslim Indian factions, they have Hindu units for their lowest tier. I was thinking that doesn't make sense. Why would a Muslim Sultanate in India recruit Hindus to fight for him, against other Hindus (like the Rajputs)? Wouldn't those Hindus be more loyal to the Rajputs over a Muslim kingdom?

    So I was thinking the Muslim Indian roster should consist purely of Muslim Indians who converted from Hinduism/Buddhism and maybe converted Mongols and Turks and Persians and Afghans and maybe even mercenaries from far away places like Arabs and Sudani/Ethiopians or even Indonesian Muslims too who arrive by sea.

    I am sorry I don't know much about the history of Muslim and Hindu/Buddhist India, but I was just thinking that it would make more sense if Muslim Indians would recruit Muslims instead of Hindus, the very religion the Muslims are trying to convert the Hindu/Buddhist Indians from. Did the Muslim Indian Kingdoms regularly recruit Hindu warriors and allowed them to just stay Hindu?

    Maybe that, and another polarization I could think of is unit specialty. The Muslim Indian factions if they have Arab or Mongol Archers with them, they'd be better at bows than the Hindus are and much more better at jav cavalry and horse archers than the Hindus are. But the Hindus of course have better elephants, masses of troops and powerful spears/swords over melee faction. Muslim excel at ranged and Hindu excel at melee mostly.
    Last edited by Kiki52; December 10, 2007 at 11:19 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Well by hiring I assume you mean mercenaries and they just pay them to fight not conform to their beliefs or traditions.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maikeru View Post
    Well by hiring I assume you mean mercenaries and they just pay them to fight not conform to their beliefs or traditions.
    Oh opps I'm sorry I meant that the units I mean you recruit in castles and cities. Like Varangian Guard units for Byzantines in vanilla MTW2.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Should Muslim and Hindu rosters be polarized? No, not at all.

    What I mean in that for Ghorids or Ghazni or one of the Muslim Indian factions, they have Hindu units for their lowest tier. I was thinking that doesn't make sense.
    Historically Ghazni made wide use of indian levies, longbows and elephants. Especially in the Eastern part of their Empire, and of course in the later stages when they were confined to Lahore, India. However they have no hindu units in their native roster. Neither do the Ghorids. So I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to raise?

    Did the Muslim Indian Kingdoms regularly recruit Hindu warriors and allowed them to just stay Hindu?
    Yes, they did. Take a look at Sindh. The rulers were Rajputs, but they were Islamic. The majority of their subjects were Hindu. Their armies were as far as we are aware, Hindu. The ghaznavids also allowed their subject populations to remain Hindu as far as I am aware.

    The Muslim Indian factions if they have Arab or Mongol Archers with them, they'd be better at bows than the Hindus are and much more better at jav cavalry and horse archers than the Hindus are.
    Arab's don't have such a strong history of archery as the Indians. Indian longbows are highly regarded and they remained one of their strongest tools of war for millenium. Horse archery however is definitely stronger in Turkish/Mongol-Muslim history, hence the Rajputs have no horse archers.

    So I was thinking the Muslim Indian roster should consist purely of Muslim Indians who converted from Hinduism/Buddhism and maybe converted Mongols and Turks and Persians and Afghans and maybe even mercenaries from far away places like Arabs and Sudani/Ethiopians or even Indonesian Muslims too who arrive by sea.
    What faction are you talking about? Sindh? Well they do contain some muslim units (mainly the elites, jagir's and Soomro warriors) . However the history books disagree with your statements, the bulk of their armies were local Hindu levies. A small faction like Sindh could never afford to buy in large quantities of Persians, Arabs, Indonesians or Turks from long distances away. Mongols? Mongols were no where near Sindh until a long, long time after the start date of BC. Anyway, they simply levied the local populations. Levying local people into armies was standard practise in most medieval kingdoms/sultanates/states.

    Cheers
    Last edited by AlphaDelta; December 11, 2007 at 03:27 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiki52 View Post
    I was wondering if the Hindu and Muslim unit rosters should be more polarized, meaning that the Muslim Indian factions (not sure what they are called but whatever the Pakistanis would be) like Ghazni(?) or Ghorids(?) should have more different rosters to reflect the drastic difference between Hinduism/Buddhism and Islam.

    What I mean in that for Ghorids or Ghazni or one of the Muslim Indian factions, they have Hindu units for their lowest tier. I was thinking that doesn't make sense. Why would a Muslim Sultanate in India recruit Hindus to fight for him, against other Hindus (like the Rajputs)? Wouldn't those Hindus be more loyal to the Rajputs over a Muslim kingdom?

    So I was thinking the Muslim Indian roster should consist purely of Muslim Indians who converted from Hinduism/Buddhism and maybe converted Mongols and Turks and Persians and Afghans and maybe even mercenaries from far away places like Arabs and Sudani/Ethiopians or even Indonesian Muslims too who arrive by sea.

    I am sorry I don't know much about the history of Muslim and Hindu/Buddhist India, but I was just thinking that it would make more sense if Muslim Indians would recruit Muslims instead of Hindus, the very religion the Muslims are trying to convert the Hindu/Buddhist Indians from. Did the Muslim Indian Kingdoms regularly recruit Hindu warriors and allowed them to just stay Hindu?

    Maybe that, and another polarization I could think of is unit specialty. The Muslim Indian factions if they have Arab or Mongol Archers with them, they'd be better at bows than the Hindus are and much more better at jav cavalry and horse archers than the Hindus are. But the Hindus of course have better elephants, masses of troops and powerful spears/swords over melee faction. Muslim excel at ranged and Hindu excel at melee mostly.
    Not really sure what you're getting at. I can't see any historical basis for what you're saying. And Ghorids and Ghazni are non-Indian Muslim states, they have no Indian troops.

    And Muslims recruited many Hindus, since most of the Muslim activity in India was not about conversions, but it was about plunder and administering tax-rich lands (agriculture + large population). There's a reason why a majority of Indians are still Hindu even though most of India was in Muslim hands since 1206 until the 1600s.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    muslim natives and hindu natives are the same people and therefore use the same weapons

  7. #7

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Islam was, is, and always will be a tolerant religion.

    In the past, people always respected this, and often times, chose voluntarily to fight for Muslim rulers rather than their own tyrannical leaders.

    India was no different. The current religious troubles on the subcontinent did not always exist.

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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salah-ud-Din View Post
    Islam was, is, and always will be a tolerant religion.
    Whether or not Islam is tolerant has little bearing on whether Muslims are tolerant.

    I have read enough about the Ghaznavid and Ghorid invasions of India to say pretty conclusively that they were not very.. erm.. nice people.
    Last edited by Miraj; December 24, 2007 at 07:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salah-ud-Din View Post
    Islam was, is, and always will be a tolerant religion.

    Salah-ud-Din you really need to be more careful of your words, their are many Armenians, Georgians, some Greeks, and some Israelites and Indians on these forums who have VERY good reasons to disagree with you.


    And India has had a very violent past being in between the western world and China, read some of the posts that Mirage and others has made about these peoples history, such as the Rajput states.

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133038

  10. #10

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Before this thread becomes Nationalist hotbed I will stop it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix_120 View Post
    Salah-ud-Din you really need to be more careful of your words, their are many Armenians, Georgians, some Greeks, and some Israelites and Indians on these forums who have VERY good reasons to disagree with you.
    Every group in their history has done something wrong.

    When the Armenians and Jewish people came to my country as refugees from the Genocide and ethnic cleansing they knew that my country was pursuing a policy of genocide and ethnic cleansing, of herding us into camps like animals, they knew that the Christian churches stole our children and were likely too rape them, they knew about the slave labor and other stuff. I'm saying that you can't a group find group without at least a little dirt on them

    (oh, if it isn't obvious by my username I'm Australian Aboriginal.)

  11. #11
    Fenix_120's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    I agree whole heartedly with you Burnum, I was just asking for Salah-ud-Din to be a little more careful becuase you can start up flame wars with posts like that.

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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Yes, and it reminds me why I used to have a tyrannical policy towards free speech on these forums in the past.

    A mod that involves Muslims, Turks, Crusaders, Armenians, Greeks, Hindus, Arabs and Africans makes for a rather explosive mix when peoples real life ethno-religious sensitivies are thrown in.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirage41 View Post
    Yes, and it reminds me why I used to have a tyrannical policy towards free speech on these forums in the past.

    A mod that involves Muslims, Turks, Crusaders, Armenians, Greeks, Hindus, Arabs and Africans makes for a rather explosive mix when peoples real life ethno-religious sensitivies are thrown in.
    Nah, broken crescent is usually all right. Besides even on the forums it was nothing compared too the tension Bosnian civil war caused in the Balkan community. (mostly Hate speech about Bosniaks and vandalism against Croat and Bosniak owned stores.)

  14. #14
    Otsman's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    "hate speech" can still occur on forums like this ya know




  15. #15

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Otsman View Post
    "hate speech" can still occur on forums like this ya know
    Yeah, I know but saying the stuff they said would get you banned.

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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    No, they're fine the way they are, and stop this my people are better than yours bull-expletive.

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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    honestly this thread needs to be closed





  18. #18

    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Quote Originally Posted by IrAr View Post
    No, they're fine the way they are, and stop this my people are better than yours bull-expletive.
    Was that aimed me? Honestly, I can't ell and if it was me than I apologize.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Should Hindu and Muslim Indian unit rosters be more polarized?

    Hmmmm........

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