China says the West must handle Global Warming; Rejects emissions cap

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

How can one be too cold? I take walks with just a sweatshirt on and golves in 10 F weather.

Why don't you come and live in Scandinavia for a while and you'll know it can be too cold .

Anyhow, if China and the US go "**** it" then the rest of the world might aswell since they are the ones letting out most of the ****.

[Sidmen]

Anyhow, if China and the US go "**** it" then the rest of the world might aswell since they are the ones letting out most of the ****.

If you were really interested in stopping global warming, you would reduce your emissions enough that ours wouldn't matter. (Europe produces more co2 than the US)

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

If you were really interested in stopping global warming, you would reduce your emissions enough that ours wouldn't matter. (Europe produces more co2 than the US)

Europe has around 710'000'000 inhabitants, US around 300'000'000. Guess who releases the most per capita?
Nobody can do everything alone but everyone can do alot together.

[Sidmen]

As I am well aware.

[Holger Danske]

Just thought i'd pre-emptively adopt the Devil's Advocate position of some posters who will inevitably respond here:

"America is to blame. It's their fault!"

not solely, but if the US dosn't do anything actively to lower emmissions then there is no point in other countries do so as it wouldn't make a difference at all.

China and the US must look after cleaner energy sources as they actually have quite deep pockets... I mean the anual bill spend on something as point as Iraq cou... oh wait, let's not go there...

[Sidmen]

What are you talking about? The US government is bankrupt.

It can't support itself without borrowing money to pay off money it has already borrowed. Bankrupt.

[JP226]

Now, "they" (the Mexicans) choose the US over other countries because it is the easiest western nation for them to get to, being right next door. How much clearer can I make it? You were implying that they choose the US because it is the best country in the world, were you not?

This is out and out agonizing. What is so difficult about this question that you clearly have no idea as to what's the right answer. I'll make it simple, it's "not b/c the US is next door." It's not because europe is far away. **** it, I can't make it any simpler, It's because we create jobs. They come here for work, no jobs no mexicans, no eastern euros, no chinese, no whatever. If the Euros did it any better, or if canada or guatemala did it better they'd go there. It has nothing to do with the ease of entry versus the ability to put food on the table. Costs and benefits. It's why immigrants from all over the world come here, for work.

Was that so hard?

Which then goes back to Kiljan's original dumb point, "we'd be happy to make 10 million refugees." No we wouldn't. We'd lose mexicans picking fruit, sure Americans would do it initially, but we'd have to pay more for american employees, which means the price of an orange is going up up up. Which means unhappy americans with less area under the budget constraint.

China and the US must look after cleaner energy sources as they actually have quite deep pockets... I mean the anual bill spend on something as point as Iraq cou... oh wait, let's not go there...

What the hell kind of logic is that? We're rich so we have to create clean energy. Screw Europe, they produce more pollution then we do. You don't like it, fix it yourself. If you hae so much faith in the manmade global warming hypothesis, then do something about it and quit *****ing.

[Holger Danske]

The problem is that there is no way of effectively reducing emissions without the US and China also doing something. We simply can't fix the enviromental mess you're contributing to. Unless you want EU to administrate the America once again?!

I'm not saying Europe is clean, i'm just saying that we actually see an issue and want to deal with it. But it's pointless to try and save what can be saved of our Planet if the US and China dosn't want to agree on a plan to reduce emissions...

[JP226]

I'm not saying Europe is clean, i'm just saying that we actually see an issue and want to deal with it. But it's pointless to try and save what can be saved of our Planet if the US and China dosn't want to agree on a plan to reduce emissions...

I got it, your continent is the quintessential bleeding heart. Complain and do nothing. Do you guys typically get satisfaction out of complaining to make yourselves feel like you care?

The EU pollutes more then both the US and China, again, why should we care when you don't?

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

The problem is that there is no way of effectively reducing emissions without the US and China also doing something. We simply can't fix the enviromental mess you're contributing to. Unless you want EU to administrate the America once again?!

I'm not saying Europe is clean, i'm just saying that we actually see an issue and want to deal with it. But it's pointless to try and save what can be saved of our Planet if the US and China dosn't want to agree on a plan to reduce emissions...

I love it how people try to make it sound like the world is doomned because of the climate change . Nobody seriously thinks that we are all gonna die. Africa and southern Europe will ge dryer etc. but humanity will survive. Stop using stupid phrases like "save what can be saved".

[Kiljan Arslan]

Wow JP so then why do you support illegals coming over here and yet then you decide to be a patriot? Someone heres being inconsistant.

[Gary88]

I got it, your continent is the quintessential bleeding heart. Complain and do nothing. Do you guys typically get satisfaction out of complaining to make yourselves feel like you care?

The EU pollutes more then both the US and China, again, why should we care when you don't?

seeing as per capita the US polutes around double the average European (the EU is an organisation not a continent) (the last figures i saw had Europe at 12 tonnes and USA at 20, the difference was almost entirely through car emissions (sp)) we are already doing something compared to the US citizen. if US citizens came down to european levels that would save ~2.4 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. Europeans would have to halve emissions by over 25% to compensate for americans polluting more than anyone else.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

Well I say send them back where they came from.

But all they're doing is pursuing happiness, thats a right given to anyone in the declaration of Independence.

Second of all, Co2 is not the only greenhouse gas, The worst one (Being the one that re-radiates the most heat back towards the earth's surface) Are chlorofluorocarbons, And the last two countries to resist efforts to phase these out were the United states and China, not europe.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Yes those who are LEGALLY!

[JP226]

seeing as per capita the US polutes around double the average European (the EU is an organisation not a continent) (the last figures i saw had Europe at 12 tonnes and USA at 20, the difference was almost entirely through car emissions (sp)) we are already doing something compared to the US citizen. if US citizens came down to european levels that would save ~2.4 billion tonnes of CO2 per year. Europeans would have to halve emissions by over 25% to compensate for americans polluting more than anyone else.

Oh, the numbers game. I can play too. The us pollutes less per unit of output. Again, get off your lazy euro asses and get to work. Don't come *****ing to me and then do nothing.

[s.rwitt]

But all they're doing is pursuing happiness, thats a right given to anyone in the declaration of Independence.

Well damn, if they meant that I could pursue happiness even if it requires breaking the law, I better go rob that bank down the street.

[Gary88]

Oh, the numbers game. I can play too. The us pollutes less per unit of output. Again, get off your lazy euro asses and get to work. Don't come *****ing to me and then do nothing.

you did read where i said the difference in CO2 output between the US and Europe is almost entirely down to vehicle exhaust emissions didn't you?

and seriously mate calm down, we're having a grown up discussion here.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

Yes those who are LEGALLY!

The Idea of Natural rights transcends Legality.

Well damn, if they meant that I could pursue happiness even if it requires breaking the law, I better go rob that bank down the street.

Because one person explicitly going out and robbing a bank is similar to Millions of people who come here for a better life. Oh wait, Its not.

[s.rwitt]

Because one person explicitly going out and robbing a bank is similar to Millions of people who come here for a better life. Oh wait, Its not.

Because using the constitution to justify breaking the law to get something you want makes a great amount of sense. Oh wait, it dosen't.

[JP226]

you did read where i said the difference in CO2 output between the US and Europe is almost entirely down to vehicle exhaust emissions didn't you?

vehicle exhaust is as much a function of output as smoke coming out of a factory. Unless of course we don't need to drive to work or transport freight across the country.