Mughals - Faction Thread

[Ahiga]

This topic is for discussing the Mughals, and perhaps until subsequent topics are opened, any of the factions to exist in India as a viable faction (Such as Sikhs, Marathas, ect.).

I myself am curious how the Mughal army was in the 1700s. Did they still make use of metal armor? Heavy Cavalry? Were there large contingents of gunpowder wielding infantry (However suspect their quality may have been)? What was the 'basic' soldier, the equivalent of an English Line Infantrymen, American Minute Man, or in previous times a spearmen or horse archer. The kind of soldier the Mughals used in large numbers, but not as levies, rather as 'general issue' kinds of soldiers.

[Slaxx Hatmen]

IIRC, the Mughals get their butts handed to them during this century.
Lets see, Nadir Shah leads a Persian army to sake their capital, and bankrupts their economy for a while. Which of course leads to the instability that always fallows a defeat like that. Giving rebellious groups like the Marathas(sp?) a chance to strike.
Eventually; I think the Mughals are reduced to a small area in N.India by the time the British and French show up,(Again, correct me if I'm wrong)and the Brits establish them as a protectorate by the turn of the century.
Thats not to say that their military was in poor shape but I think if CA do include they'll become something of an Indian Byzantium in the campaign.

[jo the greek]

some mughal weapons

[jo the greek]

and some army composition

Aditya Mittal
Introduction

This account of the Mughal army had been taken from the works of Francois Bernier, a French traveler who was attached to the court of Aurangzeb. His travels have been described in a book "Travels in the Mogul Empire, 1656 - 1668".



The troops under the King, both infantry and cavalry may be counted under two heads: one part was always near the kings person and the other was dispersed in the provinces.
Ranks and Organization

1. King

2. Omrahs

Hazari (lord of 1000 horses)

Dou Hazari (lord of 2000 horses)

Penge Hazari (lord of 5000 horses)

Deh Hazari (lord of 10,000 horses)

Douazdeh Hazari (lord of 12,000 horses, Aurangzeb’s eldest son held this title)

3. Mansabdars

4. Rouzindars


Omrah

The Mughal army was primarily organized around the king. "Chain of command" seems to be a little known concept. Under the King, there were a number of Omrahs (Nobles). Each Omrah, according to the title they were awarded by the king, was in charge of maintaining a certain number of cavalry. Omrahs were dependent on the king for the upkeep of the army and their pay was in proportion to the number of horses under them.

Two horses were generally allowed to one trooper. The horses bore the markings of the Omrah.

The number of Omars was not fixed. At any given time, there were 25-30 Omrahs at court. There would be more omrahs in the provinces.



MUGHAL WAR ELEPHANT

THIS IS A 120mm SIZE RESIN MINATURE, FROM

www.histomin.com/linever/verasn/mpve1319.jpg. BY GEORGE GRASSE FOR VERLINDEN. CIMH HAS NO AFFILIATION WITH THE COMPANY, BUT IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN MINATURES, PLEASE VISIT THEIR SITE
Mansabdar

The Mansabdars are horsemen with mansab pay. A mansab pay was not as much as that for a Omrah but still considerable. They were looked on as petty Omrahs. They acknowledge no other chief but the king. Under a Mansabdar there would be two, four or six service horses that would bear the kings markings. Their number was not fixed (under Akbar the number was fixed at 66) but they are more numerous than the Omrahs. They were under the command of the King and accepted only his superiority.
Rouzindar

Rouzindars were cavaliers who were paid on a daily basis. They filled the inferior offices, mainly clerks and under-clerks.


Horsemen

The common horsemen served under the Omrahs. They are of two kinds; the first keep a pair of horses which bear the Omrahs mark on the thigh and the second only keep one horse. The former are more esteemed. There is no information on what was the rank hierarchy among these horsemen. There might have been none.



Artillery men

Most of the artillery men were foreigners – Portuguese, English, Dutch, Germans and French. Many of them were fugitives from Goa and the Dutch and English companies.
Foot soldiers

Most of them seem to be musketeers.


Artillery near the king

There were two kinds of artillery, Heavy artillery and artillery of the stirrup.

The Heavy artillery that escorted the king consisted of seventy pieces of cannon, mostly of brass each requiring twenty yoke of oxen to draw them. It also consisted of two to three hundred light camels who carried field piece the size of a double musket attached to the back of the animal.



The artillery of the stirrup consisted of fifty or sixty small brass field-pieces. Each piece was mounted on a handsomely painted carriage containing two ammunition chests, one behind and the other in front. The carriage was drawn by two horses and attended by a third horse as a relay. The light artillery was always meant to be near the kings person.




Head Counts
Army near the King (King's bodyguard)

Cavalry – 35 to 40 thousand

Infantry (musketeers, artillery and attendants) – 15 thousand


Army of the Provinces

Cavalry

Deccan – 20 to 25 thousand

Kabul – 12 to 15 thousand

Kashmir – more than 4 thousand

Bengal - ??

Infantry (musketeers, artillery and attendants) - ??

[Babur]

edited

[D.Sebastian]

The mughals used lots of musketeers(During the XVII Cnetury they had matchlocks),probably were most of the "regular infantry"

[Copperknickers II]

What do you guys think will be availible for upgrades as Mughals?

[Rextherock]

Sounds like an interesting faction.

[Copperknickers II]

It will be.

We have seen the Uniforms will be green. Not too unrealistic, but they were a lot more varied than that. I have seen a lot of orange and white robes being worn in paintings. And there is nowhere near enough armour, some of the Mughals in the video look like 19th century Jannisaries.

[Boztorgai_Khan]

Baburs ( Babürs ) Mughals ( Moghuls ) Empire ::


Founder of Empire / Dynasty

Babür Shah Khan



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FAMILY TREE

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I Hope That This Helpfull is :original: :wink:



Sculpture of Babur Shah in Sogut ( Turkey )

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[Ludicus]

An homage to Moghul Art, Portugal thread, post 153

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...wpost&t=124141

[Mad Luddite]

I wonder why there isn't much more buzz about this faction-it's one of two Indian factions, and India will play a huge role in this game.

I hope it will be possible to establish an empire with the Mughals, since there likely won't be any territory under its control outside of the Indian subcontinent.

[Ahiga]

I wonder why there isn't much more buzz about this faction-it's one of two Indian factions, and India will play a huge role in this game.

I hope it will be possible to establish an empire with the Mughals, since there likely won't be any territory under its control outside of the Indian subcontinent.

Because it seems like some folks are nationalist and ignorant and prefer to :wub: profusely over the notion of their now impotent nation once having had a shred of importance, and think that Brown people exist only to be conquered by their proud white ancestors.

I am highly interested in the Mughals, though moreso the Marathi because of their better infantry strength. The Mughal's continued strong use of heavy cavalry is rather interesting to work with.

[Ludicus]

Because it seems like some folks are nationalist and ignorant and prefer to :wub: profusely over the notion of their now impotent nation once having had a shred of importance, and think that Brown people exist only to be conquered by their proud white ancestors.

Is that the best you can do?

You should have made a valid contribution to the thread, but we haven´t seen nothing yet, since your first post, November 2007, more than a year ago.
For those who prefer to sit on the road and wait, I recommend work.
Marry Christmas.

[Ahiga]

Is that the best you can do?

You should have made a valid contribution to the thread, but we haven´t seen nothing yet, since your first post, November 2007, more than a year ago.
For those who prefer to sit on the road and wait, I recommend work.
Marry Christmas.

Is that the best you can do for an insult? Some 'witty' little passive aggressive dig accusing me of not contributing? I've learned from previous work not to contribute research and ideas that is simply going to get stolen and passed off as someone else's ideas, without the slightest bit of respect to the original creator. I've actually done plenty of research for Thamis and CA regarding India in this era and passed it onto them directly. You know, instead of just whining at them because my ancestors aren't featured in the prestigious role of a playable faction, and circlejerking on the Total War Center Forums about our past achievements and denouncing those of other nations which were featured as playable instead. Or copying and pasting an entire Wikipedia article.

Don't mistake my silence for inactivity. I am just not going to waste my time or my efforts so that other people can disrespect me by promoting it as their own. I'll contribute to friends and modding teams who are going to respect me and my work.

[Ludicus]

Is that the best you can do for an insult?.

No, it´s a fact. You have created this thread, but where is your contribution? one year has passed.

I've learned from previous work not to contribute research....

Really? If you don´t want to contribute to your own thread, what are you expecting for? What a lame excuse. You shouldn´t have created this thread, then. Why are you expecting from others what you would never ask of yourself ?
Blame yourself, instead of blaming others for the lack of interest- and worse - insulting and accusing them of racial prejudice: "some folks are nationalist and ignorant and think that Brown people exist only to be conquered by their proud white ancestors".

instead of just whining at them because my ancestors aren't featured in the prestigious role of a playable faction

Whinning at them? If you are not lying, prove it.

circlejerking on the Total War Center Forums about our past achievements

Please elaborate. I don´t understand your sneaky remarks.

..and denouncing those of other nations which were featured as playable instead

Again, if you are not lying, prove it. I never wrote a post denigrating any country. On the contrary. But you did, just reread your last post again.

Or copying and pasting an entire Wikipedia article

90% of the posts in Portugal Thread are excerpts from books of history, as you should know. Books. A lot of them. Some (very few) texts are excerpts from some Internet sources, and none from Wikipedia. And the authors´ names were always there. Nothing wrong with that.

I've actually done plenty of research for Thamis and CA regarding India in this era and passed it onto them directly

Get my sincere congratulations, but that is completely irrelevant for this thread, isn´t it?
Summarizing, you don´t want to contribute for your own thread, and at the same time you are accusing others of lack of interest, and worse -offending them and their countries (of their now impotent nation)"
Shame on you.
Can’t you answer this question? Why are you blaming and insulting the Portuguese for the generalized (amazing, including you own) lack of interest in this thread?

[Kennylz]

Did the Mughals still use those Indian helmets that had the nasal guard down the middle, but with the two horizontal bars at the end going just below their eyes?

I'm guessing not, but who knows. That is one of my favorite helmets of all time. The Mughals will likely be in the top 3 of the factions I play the first time, so I will be keeping an eye on this thread for a good idea of what they were like.

[MekongFisher]

Someone's pissed off about bacalhau losing over to curry....

Anyway, good thread, good thread. Kicking some Brits, French, Dutch, and Portuguese hinds with elephant feet sounds fun enough for me,

[Ludicus]

Someone's pissed off about bacalhau losing over to curry....

Not at all.
I always defended the inclusion of one indian playable faction.
Besides, David Burton wrote in his book The Raj At Table, that the curry could not have been invented without the Portuguese.

[MekongFisher]

Not at all.
I always defended the inclusion of one indian playable faction.
Besides, David Burton wrote in his book The Raj At Table, that the curry could not have been invented without the Portuguese.

Dipping the former in the latter and having them over Porto wine sounds like the best idea to me.