When Did You Lose Faith in America and its Values?

[Каие]

i never realised Australia and teh US were so close.

[Siblesz]

I lost faith in America when I was forced to say the pledge in middle school. I saw blind nationalism for what it was, then. And I also understood just how idiotic any other kind of blind following is.

[Kiljan Arslan]

So a nation shouldn't want its people to be loyal to it?

[Last Roman]

So a nation shouldn't want its people to be loyal to it?

you don't need to say the pledge to be loyal

[Sidmen]

I never said the pledge.. At least not every word of it...

I kinda just stood there and stared at the flag till I realized everyone else was done. I don't know what kind of crappy school you went to where they forced you to say it.

i never realised Australia and teh US were so close.

We are perhaps as close with austrailia as we are with canada (we share air defense with canada).

[Oldgamer]

I lost faith in America when I was forced to say the pledge in middle school. I saw blind nationalism for what it was, then. And I also understood just how idiotic any other kind of blind following is.

I don't mean to piss you off, esteemed sir. However, you saw "blind nationalism" for what it was because you were forced to say the pledge of allegiance in middle school? This sounds like Obama writing a school essay in which he states that he believes he is destined to be President.

I've heard of middle schoolers with IQ's so high that they have a Ph.D. in Physics by the age of 18. But I've never heard of middle schooler who was compelled into a direct confrontation with Heidegger's "Nothing" because of a pledge that is recited mechanically on a daily basis ...

[Siblesz]

I don't mean to piss you off, esteemed sir. However, you saw "blind nationalism" for what it was because you were forced to say the pledge of allegiance in middle school? This sounds like Obama writing a school essay in which he states that he believes he is destined to be President.

I've heard of middle schoolers with IQ's so high that they have a Ph.D. in Physics by the age of 18. But I've never heard of middle schooler who was compelled into a direct confrontation with Heidegger's "Nothing" because of a pledge that is recited mechanically on a daily basis ...

Perhaps you forget that I'm not American. There were conflicting societies fighting inside my head at the time, and I didn't feel loyal to America. I felt loyal to my mother state: Venezuela. Just a little thing like being forced to learn and say the pledge made me think big things. This could've happened to an American boy studying in Russia, for that matter. Fact remains that the American nationalist propaganda was forced down my throat, much like Venezuelan nationalist propaganda was forced down my throat, but at an earlier age, and the two conflicting societies made me analyze my belief system. It took some time for that conflict to translate into my nihilistic approach... four years, to be exact. But that, I clearly remember, was the beginning of my long journey of self-introspection.

[Каие]

yeah, if muslims were told to pledge allegiance to some their holy countries they would be classed as extremists....

[Sidmen]

Actually, Iraqi military recruits are asked to pledge their allegiance to Iraq and not their tribe or religious leaders. Its actually an entire class, where they are taught the importance of working together. They are asked to swear to Allah.

[Каие]

Okay so what about the Palestinians who pledge allegiance to Jerusalem and since its in foreign hands, Some honour that allegiance of loyalty...

[CyberFist]

i never realised Australia and teh US were so close.

Well, they are We have a long history of tackling all odds together, win or lose. It started late in WW1.

[Oldgamer]

Perhaps you forget that I'm not American. There were conflicting societies fighting inside my head at the time, and I didn't feel loyal to America. I felt loyal to my mother state: Venezuela. Just a little thing like being forced to learn and say the pledge made me think big things. This could've happened to an American boy studying in Russia, for that matter. Fact remains that the American nationalist propaganda was forced down my throat, much like Venezuelan nationalist propaganda was forced down my throat, but at an earlier age, and the two conflicting societies made me analyze my belief system. It took some time for that conflict to translate into my nihilistic approach... four years, to be exact. But that, I clearly remember, was the beginning of my long journey of self-introspection.

Interesting, Sib. By the way, I love Venezuela, having spent time there in the late 80's. The people there are wonderful and warm, and the land itself is spectacular.

I can understand your problems, now, with the two different pledges and the conflicting loyalties.

[Kiljan Arslan]

you don't need to say the pledge to be loyal

Yes however the pledge is said to instill pride and loyalty in children and I see nothing wrong with that.

[Каие]

Indoctrination...like teh Hitler Youth...

[Finn]

The U.S is just like Nazi Germany

[HorseArcher]

I didn't loose faith in America and its values. If you think it's bad here you haven't seen nothing yet. Go around the world , spend a few weeks in other countries, but halfway down the road, you will be begging to come back.

The U.S is just like Nazi Germany

Right. USA is full of concentration camps and ss officers and gestapo and USA is famous about ethnic cleansing and genocides.

[CyberFist]

I didn't loose faith in America and its values. If you think it's bad here you haven't seen nothing yet. Go around the world , spend a few weeks in other countries, but halfway down the road, you will be begging to come back.

Well said. "The US is an evil imperialist!" but let's move there.

[Sidmen]

Okay so what about the Palestinians who pledge allegiance to Jerusalem and since its in foreign hands, Some honor that allegiance of loyalty...

How can you pledge your allegiance to a non-existent entity? Everyone else swears allegiance to their people, Palestinians who swear allegiance to Jerusalem and act on it (we're assuming they are hostile to Israel) actually hurt their people and cause.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Indoctrination...like teh Hitler Youth...

Wow speaking of blowing things out of proportion.

[Gelgoog]

Indoctrination...like teh Hitler Youth...

um?......what schools dont indoctrinate kids? thats their job, college is for learning, everything below it is basically to indoctrinate you, not only to have faith in your country, but to socialize you to fit in with society and instill the values to be a honest hard working person. why do you think they made schools mandatory to go to?

all schools indoctrinate, if you dont believe that, then your not looking very closely.