Rooskies: How did you guys get involved in Afghanistan?

**sephodwyrm** · November 15, 2007, 11:06 AM

Always an issue that I have.
Apparently western sources give very good answers at face value: You guys are an evil empire seeking world domination. But world domination doesn't come from getting a country of mountains and unwashed nomads.

How did you guys get involved? Need some good breakdown.

**Panzerbear** · November 15, 2007, 12:04 PM

pretty simple story.

their president Amin (even though he was technically a commie) was not listening to Moscow and actually became a rather brutal dictator who was also very unpopular among locals. this became an obvious liabilty for Soviet leadership.

Soviets invaded Afghanistan, assasinated the president in a brilliant assault of Spetsnaz KGB. then they installed a new leader and began supporting his regime the same way NATO currently supports Akhmed Karzay. everything else is history. the view of the West on this subject is deeply irrelevant. after all, any kind of invasion to another country can be easily interpreted as "evil agression against an innocent sovereign country with hopes of world domination".

**sephodwyrm** · November 15, 2007, 12:33 PM

So assassinating a leader that you don't like and establishing a puppet regime...
This really sounds like what the Amerikkkaners are doing in Iraq...

**Panzerbear** · November 15, 2007, 12:40 PM

correct.

**Hookah Smoking Caterpiller** · November 15, 2007, 04:38 PM

it seems odd that Britain (late 1800s) USSR (1970s and 80s) and the USA.

All invade Afghanistan just as they begin to decline in power

**Panzerbear** · November 15, 2007, 04:52 PM

USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1980s.

1970s is Vietnam, buddy

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**JP226** · November 15, 2007, 05:37 PM

it seems odd that Britain (late 1800s) USSR (1970s and 80s) and the USA.

what makes you think we are declining and the USSR was about to decline? Russia was and is nothing but a 3rd world country with a first... err 2nd world military.

**Kiljan Arslan** · November 15, 2007, 05:42 PM

Actually it was 2nd world 2nd world meant that it was a communist country.

Actually the soviets invaded in 1979.

**Hookah Smoking Caterpiller** · November 15, 2007, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by JP226

what makes you think we are declining and the USSR was about to decline? Russia was and is nothing but a 3rd world country with a first... err 2nd world military.

declining influence

**RusskiSoldat** · November 15, 2007, 08:06 PM

what makes you think we are declining and the USSR was about to decline? Russia was and is nothing but a 3rd world country with a first... err 2nd world military.

Russia's living standards never approached those of the west, but they were hardly third world (except for maybe the more remote rural parts) and were characterized by, if nothing else, a highly developed system of infrastructure and social services.

**zznɟ ǝɥʇ** · November 15, 2007, 08:21 PM

The whole 'first, second, third world' classification is outdated and useless anyway...

**Richard** · November 15, 2007, 10:08 PM

Isn't it spelt 'Ruskies'?

**KaerMorhen** · November 16, 2007, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by .Czar

Soviets invaded Afghanistan, assasinated the president in a brilliant assault of Spetsnaz KGB.

brilliant:hmmm: ...that's highly debatable according to taken casualties on their side but casualties are never big concern for SU HQ.
Correct me but as far as I'm concerned Spetsnaz Troops are the units controlled by the military intelligence service GRU not KBG, strictly speaking, all Spetsnaz units operated by the KGB/FSB were called Osnaz, an acronym for [voiska] osobogo naznacheniya or "special purpose [detachments].
Am I correct???

**JP226** · November 16, 2007, 09:37 AM

Apparently western sources give very good answers at face value: You guys are an evil empire seeking world domination.

Western sources must not spell "rooskies" correctly either...

**Panzerbear** · November 17, 2007, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by KaerMorhen

brilliant:hmmm: ...that's highly debatable according to taken casualties on their side but casualties are never big concern for SU HQ.

Correct me but as far as I'm concerned Spetsnaz Troops are the units controlled by the military intelligence service GRU not KBG, strictly speaking, all Spetsnaz units operated by the KGB/FSB were called Osnaz, an acronym for [voiska] osobogo naznacheniya or "special purpose [detachments].
Am I correct???

the assault on the Amin's palace was peformed literally by 48 (fourty eight!) Spetsnaz KGB Operatives ("Alfa") and they fought against over 200 Amin's body guards (which are by far not the least skilled soldiers, as you can imagine). they killed them all, they killed president Amin and themselves lost only 5 operatives KIA.

Spetsnaz GRU (or 154th OSN GRU, to be exact, the "Muslim Battalion") was there at the scene, but they did not participate in the assault, they merely held the perimeter (similar to Rangers role in Delta Force operations)... OSN (a standard designation) means Otryad Spetsalnogo Naznachenie, or "the Unit of Spetsnaz". so, no, all the units were called spetsnaz, at least all the regular ones...

OsNaz - a very archaic term, mostly used for Special Forces in Soviet Union during 1930s-1950s.

to follow up on your question - Spetsnaz itself mean the special forces. this way, pretty much all military branches have their Spetsnaz of some kind. Obviously, the most elite and hardened troops are from KGB/FSB, the definite top-tier second level units are from GRU (state reconnassance agency) of the military HQ. the rest of Spetsnaz units are also very very good, but they have less experienced soldiers and are not considered Russia's elite. just like you cant say "US Army Rangers - the best soldiers available in the US"

PS: guys, Afghanistan was invaded in December 1979. hardly "70s and 80s" by any measure

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**KaerMorhen** · November 17, 2007, 09:10 AM

the assault on the Amin's palace was peformed literally by 48 (fourty eight!) Spetsnaz KGB Operatives ("Alfa") and they fought against over 200 Amin's body guards (which are by far not the least skilled soldiers, as you can imagine). they killed them all, they killed president Amin and themselves lost only 5 operatives KIA.

[/QUOTE]

I'm going to find the sources where stand that casualties of Spetsnaz assault unit were far more than 5 including commanding officers.
According to 'The Mitrokhin Archive II. KGB and the World' by Christopher Andrew & Vasili Mitrokhin the whole number of both Zenit & Alfa Units involved in assault at Darulaman Palace (operation AGAT) was approx. 700+ men and final score of fallen soldier is up 100 including Col. Grigorij Boyarinov.

**Panzerbear** · November 19, 2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by KaerMorhen

According to 'The Mitrokhin Archive II. KGB and the World' by Christopher Andrew & Vasili Mitrokhin the whole number of both Zenit & Alfa Units involved in assault at Darulaman Palace (operation AGAT) was approx. 700+ men and final score of fallen soldier is up 100 including Col. Grigorij Boyarinov.

grossly incorrect. the Spetsnaz KGB Alfa unit was created in 1974 (five years prior to the events), and by that time, December 1979, consisted of much less than 100 operatives.

the assault of Amin's palace (operation "Storm-333") was executed by two groups of spetsnaz KGB - code name "Zenit" and code name "Grom". after the assault, the total casualties of both groups were 5 KIA and 32 WIA.

the ranks of Spetsnaz KGB operatives were filled with senior ranked officers - it was a common occasion, since they were so elite. they had majors, colonels, generals, who themselves led the assaults and fully participated in all operations...

**KaerMorhen** · November 19, 2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by .Czar

grossly incorrect. the Spetsnaz KGB Alfa unit was created in 1974 (five years prior to the events), and by that time, December 1979, consisted of much less than 100 operatives.

the assault of Amin's palace (operation "Storm-333") was executed by two groups of spetsnaz KGB - code name "Zenit" and code name "Grom". after the assault, the total casualties of both groups were 5 KIA and 32 WIA.

the ranks of Spetsnaz KGB operatives were filled with senior ranked officers - it was a common occasion, since they were so elite. they had majors, colonels, generals, who themselves led the assaults and fully participated in all operations...

ex-KGB officer Олег Данилович Кaлyгин-Oleg Kalugin (attended Leningrad State University and, subsequently, was recruited by the KGB under the aegis of the First Chief Directorate (Foreign Intelligence)) confessed similar data to what Василий Никитич Митрохин-Vasili Nikitich Mitrokhin (major and senior archivist for the Soviet Union's foreign intelligence service, the First Chief Directorate of the KGB) said. So there are official Kremlin facts and data provided by those who fled 'West'.

btw share with us the sources of yours!!!

**~~The Prophet~~** · November 19, 2007, 02:01 PM

Afghanistan, its where all empires begin their end.

**Panzerbear** · November 20, 2007, 12:09 AM

do you speak Russian? because I can easily provide you with countless sources in that language. this operation (Amin's palace siege) is a first major assingment for Alfa operatives and only lazy journalists did not have an interview with now retired officers that lived through these events. in fact, I am surprised you do not know these details - I previously thought they were common knowledge for everyone.

as far as english sources go, well you can start from here

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm-333