Discuss about SCOTTISH HIGLANDERS

[KLAssurbanipal]

This thread will be discuss about Scottish Regiments in British Army and Jacobite Rebellion.

Pictures:

Jacobite Rebellion:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Part...s/oldscot1.gif

Higlanders in British Army:


Here is my model, Scottish Higlander from 18th century:


from wikipedia:

The Battle of Culloden (Scottish Gaelic: Blàr Chùil Lodair) (April 16, 1746) was the final clash between the French-supported Jacobites and the Hanoverian British Government in the 1745 Jacobite Rising. It was the last battle to be fought on mainland Britain. Culloden brought the Jacobite cause—to restore the House of Stuart to the throne of the Kingdom of Great Britain—to a decisive defeat.
The Jacobites—most of them Highland Scots—supported the claim of James Francis Edward Stuart (aka "The Old Pretender") to the throne; the government army, under the Duke of Cumberland, younger son of the Hanoverian sovereign, King George II, supported his father's cause.
The aftermath of the battle was brutal and earned the victorious general the name "Butcher" Cumberland. Charles Edward Stuart eventually left Britain and went to Rome, never to attempt to take the throne again. Civil penalties were also severe. New laws attacked the Highlanders' clan system, and highland dress was outlawed.

Prince Charles Edward Stuart, known as Bonnie Prince Charlie or the Young Pretender, successfully raised forces, mainly of Scottish Highland clansmen and defeated the Hanoverian Army stationed in Scotland at the Battle of Prestonpans. Edinburgh was occupied. The British government recalled forces from the war with France in Flanders to deal with the rebellion. After a lengthy wait, Charles persuaded his generals that English Jacobites would stage an uprising in support of his cause. He was convinced that France would launch an invasion of England as well. His army of around 5000 invaded England on November 8, 1745. They advanced through Carlisle and Manchester, to Derby, and a position where they appeared to threaten London. King George II made plans to decamp to Hanover. The Jacobites met only token resistance. There was, however, little support from English Jacobites, and the French invasion fleet was still being assembled. The armies of General George Wade and of William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland, also known as the "Wee German Lairdy" and "The Butcher", were approaching. A militia was forming in London and the Jacobites had (fictitious) reports of a third army closing on them. The Jacobite general Lord George Murray and the Council of War insisted on returning to join their growing force in Scotland. On 6 December 1745, they withdrew, with the Prince petulantly leaving the command to Murray.
On the long march back to Scotland the Highland Army wore out its boots and demanded all the boots and shoes of the townspeople of Dumfries as well as money and hospitality.This made them rather unpopular in the borders which had more Hanoverian sympathies.
The Jacobites reached Glasgow on 25 December. There they reprovisioned, and were joined by a few thousand new men. They then defeated the forces of General Henry Hawley at the Battle of Falkirk. The Duke of Cumberland arrived in Edinburgh on 30 January, to take over command of the government army from General Hawley. He then marched north along the coast, with the army being supplied by sea. Six weeks were spent at Aberdeen training.
The King's forces continued to pressure Charles. He retired north, losing men and failing to take Stirling Castle or Fort William. But he invested Fort Augustus and Fort George in Invernessshire in early April. Charles now took command again, and insisted on fighting a defensive action.
Hugh (Rose of Kilravock), 16th Baron, entertained Prince Charles and the Duke of Cumberland repectively on 14th and 15th April 1746, before the battle of Culloden. On the occasion the Prince Charles' manners and deportment were described by his host as most engaging. Having walked out with Mr. Rose, before sitting down, he observed several persons engaged in planting trees. He remarked, "How happy, Sir, you must feel, to be thus peaceably employed in adorning your mansion, whilst all the country round is in such commotion." Kilravock was a firm supporter of the Hanoverian family; but his adherence was not solicited, nor were his preferences alluded to. Next day, the Duke of Cumberland called at the castle gate, and when Kilravock went to receive him, he bluffly observed, "So you had my cousin Charles here yesterday." Kilravock replied, "What am I to do, I am Scottish", To which Cumberland replied, "you did perfectly right."

Jacobite Army

• Nearly three quarters of the Jacobite army was composed of Scottish Highland clansmen, the majority of them being Roman Catholic, but more than a third being Scottish Episcopalians.
• Around a quarter of the force were Episcopalians from the north-east Scottish Lowlands, north of the River Tay, so that more than half the total was Episcopalian, but the lowland contribution was obscured by their tendency to wear Highland dress as a kind of Jacobite uniform.
• Only 20-25% of the Highlanders were armed with swords, some having spears or axes and the remainder makeshift or captured weapons.
• During the invasion of England about 300 English Roman Catholics from Manchester formed a regiment, but were left behind as a rearguard at Carlisle.
• Many of the Jacobites left for home after the Battle of Falkirk, and the army was poorly provisioned and short on rations.
• The Jacobite army which fought at the Battle of Culloden included men from: Clan Stuart (Stewart), Clan Donnachaidh, Clan MacDonald of Keppoch, Clan MacDonnell of Glengarry, Clan MacDonald of Clan Ranald, Clan MacKinnon, Clan Cameron, Clan Gordon, Clan Fraser, Clan MacGregor, Clan MacLean, Clan MacLeod, Clan MacIntyre, Clan Ogilvy, Clan Chisholm, Clan MacLaren, Clan MacLea, Clan MacBain, Clan MacLachlan, Clan MacNaghten, and Clan Chattan, composed of Clan Davidson, Clan MacGillivray, Clan Macpherson, Clan MacKintosh, Clan MacDuff, and Clan Farquharson.

British Government Army

The British Army under Cumberland, assembled and trained at Aberdeen, was well supplied. It included:

• Three regiments of Scottish horse; Kerr's Dragoons protected the left flank, led by Lord Mark Kerr, chief of Clan Kerr. Possibly also included some German Hanoverians.
• Twelve battalions of foot, two thirds were English and one third was made from Scottish Lowland and Scottish Highland clansmen:
• One battalion and a militia had been largely raised from Clan Campbell Scottish Highlanders.
• James Sinclair, chief of the Highland Clan Sinclair commanded The Royal Scots along with Charles Cathcart.
• Three battalions of Scottish Lowlanders foot soldiers supported the government at Culloden from Clan Cathcart, Clan Colville, Clan Sempill, Clan Kerr and Clan Cunningham (company of artillery). Most of the these clans fought in mixed regiments such as The Royal Scots Regiment of Foot and some were under the name of an English officer such as Barrel's Regiment of Foot.
• Other Highland clans such as the Clan MacKay, Clan Munro, Clan Ross, Clan Sutherland, Clan Gunn and Clan Grant, sided with the government during the uprisings but were assigned other military duties at the time of Culloden and were not present at this battle. The Clan MacKay intercepted and captured gold and supplies to stop them reaching Jacobite leader Bonnie Prince Charlie before the battle commenced and the Clan Ross defended Inverness Castle against the Jacobites. It is often suggested that men from these clans fought for the government at Culloden but there is little if any evidence for this.

The Duke of Cumberland and his army of around 8,811 men arrived at Nairn on 14 April. The Jacobite forces of about 5,400 left their base at Inverness, leaving most of their supplies, and assembled 5 miles (8 km) to the east near Drummossie, around 12 miles (19 km) before Nairn. Prince Charles had decided to personally command his forces and took the advice of his adjutant general, Secretary O’Sullivan, who chose to stage a defensive action at Drummossie Moor, a stretch of open moorland enclosed between the walled Culloden[1] enclosures to the North and the walls of Culloden Park to the South. Lord George Murray "did not like the ground" and with other senior officers pointed out the unsuitability of the rough moorland terrain which was highly advantageous to the Duke with the marshy and uneven ground making the famed Highland charge somewhat more difficult while remaining open to Cumberland’s powerful artillery. They had argued for a guerrilla campaign, but the Prince refused to change his mind.

On 15 April the Government army celebrated Cumberland's birthday, drinking his health at his expense. At the suggestion of Murray the Jacobites tried that evening to repeat the success of Prestonpans by carrying out a night attack on the government army encampment, but the half-starved Highlanders who had only had one biscuit apiece during the day were still 2 miles (3 km) short of Nairn by dawn and had to march back, then dispersed to search for food or fell asleep in ditches and outbuildings. Many of them lay exhausted in the grounds of Culloden House throughout the battle.
Early on 16 April the Government army marched from Nairn, and Jacobite guns sounded the alarm (though not all heard) to bring their troops to form two lines. The front line of exhausted highland foot soldiers had guns in the centre and on the flanks, the second line included their horse regiments, worn out from the night march, and the Scots and Irish regiments of the French army. The weather was very poor with a gale driving sleety rain into the faces of the Jacobites. The Duke's forces arrived around mid day and arrayed themselves in two lines to face the Jacobite forces, their left flank anchored on a low stone wall running along the south end of the field towards Culloden Park. Horse Dragoons and Government militia moved round behind the wall to infiltrate the park around the Jacobite flank. The Prince's artillery, outnumbered some three to one, opened fire first but due to a lack of trained gunners had little impact.

Over the next twenty minutes Cumberland's superior artillery continued to batter the Jacobite lines, while Charles, moved for safety out of sight of his own forces, waited for the government forces to move. Inexplicably, he left his forces arrayed under the Government fire for over half an hour. Although the marshy terrain minimised casualties, the morale of the Jacobites began to suffer. Several clan leaders, angry at the lack of action, pressured Charles to issue the order to charge. When he was eventually persuaded to issue the order, the McDonalds refused, angry because they had been placed on the left flank overturning their traditional right to take the right flank. The Clan Chattan was first away, but an area of boggy ground in front of them forced them to veer right so that they obstructed the following regiments and the attack was pushed towards the wall. The Highlanders advanced on the left flank of the Government troops but were subjected to several volleys of musket fire and the artillery which had switched from roundshot to grapeshot.

Despite this, a large number of Jacobites reached the Government lines; however, unlike in previous battles, their uncoordinated charge meant that the line arrived piecemeal. The newly introduced bayonet drill used by the government troops meant that in a few places the charge, already flagging, was crushed against the Government lines. Despite this, the right flank of the Jacobites broke through the first line of Government troops and was only halted by Cumberland's second line of defence.
While the attack was still in progress, a small number of the Government forces had breached the park wall and the Campbell militia advanced unseen to fire at the right flank of the Jacobite lines. This added to all the other brutal gunfire, and threatened by cavalry the Jacobites were forced to retreat. The Duke ordered in his dragoons to rout the Jacobite forces, but the small contingent of elite Irish and other regular regiments covered the retreat as the Jacobites withdrew.

In a total of about 60 minutes the Duke was victorious, around 1,250 Jacobites were dead, a similar number were wounded, and 558 prisoners (336 Scots and Irish as well as 222 Frenchmen) were taken. Cumberland had about 52 dead and 259 wounded among his Government forces.


After their victory, Cumberland ordered his men to execute all the Jacobite wounded and prisoners, an act for which he was known afterwards as "the Butcher". Certain higher-ranking prisoners did survive to be tried and executed later in Inverness.
The Prince fled the battlefield and survived for five months in Scotland despite a £30,000 reward for his capture. The Prince eventually returned to France, making a dramatic if humiliating escape disguised as a "lady's maid" to Flora MacDonald.
Immediately after the battle, Cumberland rode into Inverness, his drawn sword still covered in blood, a symbolic and menacing gesture. The following day, the slaughter continued, when patrols were sent back to the battlefield to kill any survivors; contemporary sources indicate that about 70 more Jacobites were killed as a result of this. Cumberland emptied the jails of English prisoners, and replaced them with Jacobite sympathisers. A numbers of the prisoners were taken south to England to stand trial for high treason. Trials took place at Berwick upon Tweed, York and London with many Jacobite prisoners being held in hulks on the Thames or in Tilbury Fort where there is a memorial stone. Executions were conducted on the basis of drawing lots on a ratio of about 1 in 20. In total 3,470 Jacobites supporters and others were taken prisoner in the aftermath of Culloden, with 120 of them being executed and 88 dying in prison; 936 transported to the colonies and 222 more "banished". While many were eventually released, the fate of nearly 700 is unknown. As well as dealing out summary justice to his captives Cumberland was equally ruthless, executing 36 deserters from his own forces found amongst the prisoners.

By contrast to the ruthless treatment of many captured clansmen, the detachments of Irish soldiers from the French army were permitted to formally surrender and were treated well and eventually returned to France. They were considered as regular soldiers of a foreign ruler and accordingly subject to the normal practices of warfare. The captured Jacobites were regarded as traitors (even if many had had no choice but to follow their clan leaders) and treated accordingly.
The Hanoverian forces' assault on the Jacobite sympathizers continued in the coming months—destroying the clan system with the Act of Proscription disarming them, banning the kilt and the tartan, the Tenures Abolition Act ending the feudal bond of military service and the Heritable Jurisdictions Act removing the virtually sovereign power the chiefs had over their clan. Statute provisions were aimed at proscribing the perceived religion of the Jacobites, Episcopalianism (Catholicism was already banned). Government troops were stationed in the Highlands and built more roads and barracks to better control the region, adding to the Wade roads constructed for Major-General George Wade after the 'Fifteen rising, as well a new fortress at Fort George to the east of Inverness. The proscribed clan dress of kilt and tartan was, at least officially, only permitted in the Highland regiments serving in the British Army.



Jacobite Army

(approximately 5,400 men)

• Army Commander - Prince Charles Edward Stuart

• FIRST LINE - 3,810 men
  • Right Wing - 1,150 men (Lord George Murray, brother of the Chief of Clan Murray)
    • Atholl Highlanders Regiment - 500 men (William Murray Lord Nairne)
    • Clan Cameron Regiment - 400 men (Donald Cameron of Lochiel, de facto Chief of Clan Cameron)
    • The Appin Regiment - 250 men (Charles Stewart of Ardshiel, uncle to the Chief of Clan Stewart of Appin)
  • Centre - 1,760 men (Lord John Drummond)
    • Frasers of Lovat Regiment - 400 men (Charles Fraser of Inverallochy and Simon Fraser, Master of Lovat)
    • Chattan Confederation Regiment - 350 men (Alexander MacGillivray of Dunmaglass, Chief of Clan MacGillivray, for Lady Anne Farquharson MacIntosh, "Colonel Anne", wife of the Chief of Clan MacKintosh, Captain of the Clan Chattan Confederation and daughter of John Farquharson of Invercauld)
    • Clan Farquharson Regiment - 250 men (James Farquharson of Balmoral, "Balmoral the Brave")
    • Clan MacLachlan & Clan MacLean Regiment - 290 men (Lachlan MacLachlan of MacLachlan, Chief of Clan MacLachlan and aide de camp to the Prince, with Charles MacLean of Drimnin as second-in-command)
      • Clan MacLeod Unit - 120 men (Malcolm MacLeod of Raasay) - attached to Clans MacLachlan & MacLean Regiment
    • Edinburgh Regiment - 200 men (John Roy Stewart)
    • Clan Chisholm Regiment - 150 men (Roderick Chisholm of Comar, son of the Chief of Clan Chisholm)
  • Left Wing - 900 men (James Drummond, 3rd Duke of Perth, Chief of Clan Drummond)
    • Clan MacDonald of Clan Ranald - 200 men (Ranald MacDonald of Clan Ranald, "Young Clanranald", son of the Chief of Clan MacDonald of Clan Ranald)
    • Clan MacDonald of Keppoch Regiment - 200 men (Alexander MacDonnell of Keppoch, Chief of Clan MacDonnell of Keppoch)
    • Clan MacDonnell of Glengarry Regiment - 420 men (Donald MacDonell of Lochgarry)
      • Clan Grant of Glenmorriston Unit - 80 men (Alexander Grant of Corrimony) - attached to Clan MacDonnell of Glengarry Regiment
• SECOND LINE - 1,190 men (Lt.Col. Walter Stapleton)
  • Clan Ogilvy Angus Regiment (Lord David Ogilvy, son of the Chief of Clan Ogilvy)
  • 1st Clan Gordon Regiment (Lord Lewis Gordon, brother of the Chief of Clan Gordon)
  • 2nd Clan Gordon Regiment (John Gordon of Glenbucket)
  • Duke of Perth's Regiment (Unknown)
  • Régiment Écossais Royaux (Lord Louis Drummond)
  • Irish Piquets Regiment (Maj. Summan)
• THIRD LINE - 400 men
  • Kilmarnock's Regiment (William Boyd, 4th Earl of Kilmarnock, Chief of Clan Boyd)
  • Pitsligo's Regiment (Alexander Baron Forbes of Pitsligo)
  • Régiment Baggot (Unknown)
  • Lord Elcho's Horse (David Wemyss Lord Elcho, son of the Chief of Clan Wemyss)
  • Life Guards (Unknown)
  • FitzJames's Horse (Sir Jean McDonell)
• ARTILLERY (Unknown)
  • • 2 x 2pdr cannon
    • 3 x 4pdr cannon
    • 3 x 6pdr cannon

Note 1: Of the commanding officers listed above:

• Donald Cameron of Lochiel, de facto Chief of Clan Cameron, was wounded and had to be carried from the field;
• Charles Fraser of Inverallachie was mortally wounded;
• Alexander MacGillivray of Dunmaglass, Chief of Clan MacGillivray, was killed, with all but three officers of the Clan Chattan Regiment;
• Lachlan MacLachlan of MacLachlan, Chief of Clan MacLachlan, was killed, probably by a cannon shot;
• Charles MacLean of Drimnin was killed, with two of his sons;
• James Drummond, 3rd Duke of Perth and Chief of Clan Drummond, was severely wounded - he was carried from the field, but died on his way to France;
• Alexander MacDonell of Keppoch, Chief of Clan MacDonell of Keppoch, was killed.

Other persons of note on the Jacobite side to be killed at Culloden were:

• William Drummond of Machany, 4th Viscount of Strathallan;
• Robert Mercer of Aldie, an officer in the Atholl Highlanders Regiment;
• Gillies Mhor MacBean of Dalmagerry, who led the MacBeans of the Clan Chattan Regiment.

Note 2: More clans fought (and died) at Culloden than is apparent from this order of battle.
The Atholl Highlanders Regiment (also known as the Atholl Brigade) was mostly made up of members of Clan Murray, Clan Ferguson, Clan Stewart of Atholl, Clan Menzies, and Clan Robertson.
Also, the clan regiments are not quite as easily defined as their names suggest. Note that:

• in the Clan Cameron Regiment there were also members of Clan Macfie and Clan MacMillan;
• the Appin Regiment was not only made up of members of Clan Stewart of Appin, but also of Clan MacLaren, Clan MacColl, Clan MacInnes, Clan MacIntyre, and Clan Livingstone ;
• the Clan Chattan Regiment was mostly made up of Clan MacIntosh, Clan MacGillivray, and Clan MacBean, but also included members of Clan MacKinnon and Clan MacTavish, which were not part of the Clan Chattan Confederation;
• the Clan MacDonnell of Keppoch Regiment included, apart from Clan MacDonnell of Keppoch, also Clan MacDonald of Glencoe (also known as Clan MacIan), Clan MacGregor, and Clan MacIver;
• Lord Ogilvy's Angus Regiment consisted mainly of members of Clan Ogilvy and Clan Ramsay;
• the Duke of Perth's Regiment consisted mainly of members of Clan Drummond;
• Kilmarnock's Regiment consisted mainly of members of Clan Boyd;
• Pitsligo's Regiment consisted mainly of members of Clan Forbes;
• and Lord Elcho's Horse consisted mainly of members of Clan Wemyss.

British Government Army

• Army Commander - 'William Duke of Cumberland

• FIRST LINE - Earl of Abermarle
• Kerr's Dragoons (protected the left flank, led by Lord Mark Kerr chief of Clan Kerr).
  • Barrell's 4th (King's Own) Regiment of Foot (led by Lord Robert of Clan Kerr).
  • Munro's 37th Regiment of Foot (led by Colonel Dejean) (after 1881 became part of the Royal Hampshire Regiment regiment).
  • Campbell's, 21st Regiment of Foot, (led by 'Charles' chief of Clan Colville). (Today called the Royal Scots Fusiliers).
  • Price's 14th Regiment of Foot. (later the West Yorkshire Regiment (The Prince of Wales's Own)).
  • Cholmondley's 34th (Cumberland) Regiment of Foot. (after 1881 became part of The Border Regiment).
  • The Royal Scots (led by Charles Cathcart of Clan Cathcart and James Sinclair of Clan Sinclair).

• SECOND LINE - Maj.Gen John Huske
  • Semphill's, 25th Regiment of Foot (led by "Hugh" chief of Clan Sempill and Capt. Campbell), (later named the King's Own Scottish Borderers).
  • Wolfe's 8th Regiment of Foot (Lt. Col James Wolfe) (later called The King’s (Liverpool Regiment)).
  • Bligh's 20th Regiment of Foot (later called The Lancashire Fusiliers).
  • Conway's 48th Regiment of Foot (after 1881 part of The Northamptonshire Regiment).
  • Fleming's 36th (Herefordshire) Regiment of Foot.
  • Howard's 3rd Regiment of Foot (later called Buffs (Royal East Kent Regiment))

• THIRD LINE - Brig.Gen Mordaunt
  • Blakeney's 27th Regiment of Foot (from Ireland, later named Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers).
  • Battereau's 62nd Regiment of Foot (later disbanded)
  • Pulteney's 13th Regiment of Foot (later The Somerset Light Infantry).
  • Royal Artillery (led by Captain Cunningham of Clan Cunningham)
    • 10 x 3pdr cannon
  • Clan Campbell's Militia (Col. Jack Campbell)
  • Cobham's Dragoons (renamed the 10th Royal Hussars (Prince of Wales's Own)
  • Kingston's Regiment of Horse (later disbanded).

Note: Of the British officers present, one, Lord Robert Kerr, the commander of Barrell's 4th Regiment of Foot, was killed. Colonel Rich who served in Barrell's lost his left hand and was badly cut on his head by a Jacobite swordsman. In addition, a small number of captains and lieutenants received wounds ranging from severe to minor.
Note 2: The majority of the casualties sustained by the British were borne by Barrell's 4th Regiment of Foot. Of the 438 men present, 17 were killed and 108 wounded.

British Casualties

1st): 0 killed, 4 wounded
3rd): 1 killed, 2 wounded
4th): 17 killed, 108 wounded
8th): 0 killed, 1 wounded
34th): 1 killed, 2 wounded
14th): 1 killed, 9 wounded
48th): 1 killed, 5 wounded
13th): 0 killed, 0 wounded
25th): 1 killed, 13 wounded
21st): 0 killed, 7 wounded
27th): 0 killed, 0 wounded
37th): 14 killed, 69 wounded
36th): 0 killed, 6 wounded
20th): 4 killed, 17 wounded
62nd): 0 killed, 3 wounded


Highland Militia: 6 killed, 4 wounded
Cobham's Dragoons: 1 killed, 0 wounded
Kerr's Dragoons: 3 killed, 3 wounded
Kingston's Dragoons: 0 killed, 1 wounded

[BattleDrumz]

With over 50 or so factions ingame, the Jacobites will surely make it ingame (after all, the only difference between them and the U.S. is that the U.S. actually won) I can't wait to see the highland charge reborn to break the back of Cornwallis' redcoats!

But I digress. Nice pics. The highlander regiments in the British army saw a lot of action and were quite good shock troops.

Ive been to Culloden you know. Its always kind of creepy to visit a place where many men lost their lives to protect a cause that would fail with them....

Cheers

[different_13]

Btw, those are all pictures of Highlanders during the Crimean war..
Except for the first one, but I'd say that's 19th century also.

If you take the last picture and replace the glengarry with the original (shapeless blob) bonnet, you wouldn't be far off though.

Does anyone think CA will code an option for (at least) 3 attacks per unit?
If not, I'm guessing they'll go with musket/broadsword for the typical Highlander unit.
A mercenary unit (or Jacobite unit, if they make it in) of Pistol/broadsword (with a targe for protection) could be made too.

Nice summary though.

[KLAssurbanipal]

Some of these are from Crimea, Napoleonic and XVIII century.

[KLAssurbanipal]

I made this unit for Higlanders fans:

[Ahiga]

Much as I may make fun of those who are strongly interested in playing their own nationality...

I do look damn well forward to playing England and fielding some of my mighty Scottish Ancestors.

English, Scottish, Irish, even inscrutable Welshmen, to victory!

[Recon]

Even though I'm a dane Scotland has always been one of my favourite factions and it is mainly due to 3 reasons - 1: Just like a Dane they can drink almost any nationality under the table. 2: I love the Scottish humor and accent 3: Though they dress like woman, they really know how to fight (especially the english).

[jo the greek]

one officer that fought in the final battle with Jacobites recognized their value and
used highlanders against Indians in the war between France and Britain in north America.

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

one officer that fought in the final battle with Jacobites recognized their value and
used highlanders against Indians in the war between France and Britain in north America.

Most of the Government forces in the Jacobite revolt were Scottish. Since the Act of Union Scots have been part of the army, and a dam good part too..

[Agent Provocateur]

Most of the Government forces in the Jacobite revolt were Scottish. Since the Act of Union Scots have been part of the army, and a dam good part too..

Yep, check the order of battle out to see who fought who.

It amazes me how "Bonny" Prince Charlie is identified as some kind of Scottish hero. The man couldn't speak English, let alone Gaelic. I mention English becaue it takes us on to the fact that he got all those people killed by their compatriots because he wanted to be king of England! (Scotland as well of course, but still...)

Even though I'm a dane Scotland has always been one of my favourite factions and it is mainly due to ....3: Though they dress like woman, they really know how to fight (especially the english).

Though of course as a Dane you'd know that when you say "English" you probably mean Danish, as a large proportion of the Northern "English" the Scots spent so much energy fighting were actually descended from Danish Dark Ages tourists who never left

[Recon]

Though of course as a Dane you'd know that when you say "English" you probably mean Danish, as a large proportion of the Northern "English" the Scots spent so much energy fighting were actually descended from Danish Dark Ages tourists who never left

I know the whole bloody two islands were raped by vikings in the dark ages, so even the Scots and Irish must have some norse blood running through there veins.

But isn't that beside the point? I mean if we keep going back we might all be related.

[Agent Provocateur]

I know the whole bloody two islands were raped by vikings in the dark ages, so even the Scots and Irish must have some norse blood running through there veins.

But isn't that beside the point? I mean if we keep going back we might all be related.

You're right the Vikings raided and settled in Scotland as well. But to a large extent they settled in much greater numbers in the north of England. So they actually got there after most of the English, actually bringing history a bit closer.

btw, Scotland isn't a seperate island.

[Recon]

btw, Scotland isn't a seperate island.

lol i know, but i-r-e-l-a-n-d is!

[Agent Provocateur]

lol i know, but i-r-e-l-a-n-d is!

Yes, but n-o o-n-e m-e-n-t-i-o-n-e-d I-r-el-a-n-d ""

[jo the greek]

hahahahhahahah



greek highlander i will find and afgan similar picture

[Agent Provocateur]

hahahahhahahah



greek highlander i will find and afgan similar picture

Didn't the Romans wear "skirts" as well. I think some of the defining characteristics of a barbarian were facial fuzz and trousers

[jo the greek]

the ancients didnt liked trousers they were barbaric

[Recon]

Yes, but n-o o-n-e m-e-n-t-i-o-n-e-d I-r-el-a-n-d ""

I mentioned Irish as in Ireland, but nvm lets not spoil the thread.

[Agent Provocateur]

Yep, let's move on.

The Scots, eh.....?

[jo the greek]

the Battle of Culloden is one of my favourite battles the highlanders that really fought the battle (the rest did nt took any real part ) had lost the battle from the beginning