Cvria Ivlia, Consulate of Ancus/Lepidus

[Winter]

ooc: Ancus how did you edit one of the commanders names to be your RP name??

(ooc) You have to use paint/photoshop.

[Kritias]

Marcvs Ivnivs Brvtvs rises:

Conscriptii Patres! Our faction,the Noves Optimates,with the cooperation of the Populares party(our thanks for your support) propose the following legislation:

Lex Diplomatica

By Marcvs Jvnivs Brvtvs of the Noves Optimates
with the noble support of the Populares Party.

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Section 1.

Foreign Policy

In General.

Rome is a nation that is surrounded, by a geographical point of view, by many enemies. It is our responsibility, as the leading members of our Republic to decide how we are to act against some of these nations, to decide with which we should ally with, which one we should trade, declare war etc. This act is a guideline to Roman Foreign Policy.

1.

Diplomatic Acts towards Other Nations.

§1.1 – Alliances

Alliances should be formed with all nations that have never harmed or hindered us in any way; Once such a strong diplomatic relation is established we should do our best to maintain it at all costs. Also Rome should always act with the principle that alliances between nations are sacred; therefore any hostile act to allies of Rome should be avoided even if it’s not our original intention.

§1.1.2 – Canceling an Alliance.

If Rome and the Senatvs deem that an alliance with a nation is well past any benefit for the People of Rome, then we should dispatch a diplomat and once there, they should honorably and respectively announce the cancellation of the Alliance.

§1.2 – Military Passage.

Military passage should be asked for if the enemy we are facing is beyond our borders and over a landmass controlled by our allies or a neutral nation. We should always ask for military passage, even from neutrals in order to not provoke suspicions on the nation being asked that we intend to invade it.

§1.3 – Trade rights

We decree that Rome should seek out trade agreements with all its neighboring nations. That way we should make our economy strong, and with a strong economy comes power in general. War, as the saying goes, it’s more a matter of silver and gold than other things.

§1.4 – map information.

According to the nation’s in question disposition against us, we should either try to exchange map information, buy it or hide it and try to confuse the enemies of Rome with false reports.

§1.5 – Protectorate status.

Protectorate offer should be given as an option to all kneeling enemies of Rome; It would be advisable in the beginning that we establish client kingdoms instead of capturing their lands for ourselves in order to not over-extend our borders. Also, such an act of mercy and charity to the defeated people will not go unnoticed by other nations.

2.

Discrimination between nations.

Rome’s senators should debate on which faction from all existing is worthy of be named Amici Populi Romani, which nations should be treated with a degree of hostility and suspicion and which should be considered Hostes Populi Romani(enemies of the Roman People). When the nations are decided upon their acts, whether of present term or past term, we should begin treating them as follows:

§2.1 – Amici Populi Romani.

As such should be considered all those that have never hindered or harmed our Republic in the past.When confronted with People like these, we should try to guarantee good relations in form of trade rights, map information (both ours and theirs) and alliance if the good senators deem the nation in question worthy of alliance with Rome. Of course it goes without the need of saying that we should never act against these peoples or their better interests as to not provoke a war between allies, something that could harm the prestige of Rome.

§2.2 – Populi Quietii (neutral nations).

When confronted with nations that are currently neutral with us not taking into consideration if they whether were enemies of Rome in the past or supported\being in alliance with enemies of Rome, we should be careful and cautious. It is advisable to not grant map information as to conceal our defenses and routes to the heart of the Res Publica. Instead we should try to find out as much as possible about these nations either by trade or monetary offers for map information or even espionage. Lastly as above we should not provoke hostilities with these people, unless they have given us proof or suspicion of their ill intentions.

§2.3 – Hostes Populi Romani.

These nations are all those that worked hard for our downfall; Any nation that was\is at war with us for a period of 10+ years should be considered enemy of Roman People! We ought to face them with hostility and even try to diplomatically isolate them. They are the enemies of Rome and should be punished to example the other nations that None can offend Rome!

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Section 2.

Casus Belli

We should decide upon which acts from the Neutral nations and Hostes Populi Romani nations should be considered as a declaration of war against our Res Publica. If those following acts are presented from foreign nations, it should be the responsibility of the Senatvs to declare war against them for acts against the People of Rome and will be the obligation of every citizen to harm those nations if he is able.

1.

Actions that should be seen as hostile acts from the Enemies of the Senatvs and People of Rome.

§1.1 – Building of enemy forces close on our Borders.

When we see the enemies of Rome gathering up their soldiers close to our borders, its safe to consider that they are preparing yet again an invasion. If 1 or more armies (fullstacks) are seen close to our borders the Senior Consul will have the obligation to put a Bellum vote in the Senatvs, a vote for declaration of war, in order to have the advantage of initiating the war actions. For such a vote to be considered passed, there should be at least 7 Yay votes with no opposition raised. If opposition is raised, the Senior Consul should wait the enemy to make the first move.

§1.2 – The violation of our Borders.

If the enemy forces, no matter their size and composition, cross our borders we should consider this as an act of war against the Res Publica. When such an action takes place it’s the obligation of the Senior Consul to put a Bellum vote up in the Senatvs. This time however it’s like a regular motion vote.

§1.3 – Declaration of war from a nation hostile to Rome to an ally of the Republic.

If an ally of the Republic is under attack by an enemy nation of Rome, it’s our responsibility to counter-act and help out our allies. At first the Senior Consul should offer economic help to our allies and then if the Senatvs decrees so march the legions to war in salvation of the allied nation.

§1.4 – Usage of either spies or assassins against our cities and characters.

If reports show that a nation operates subterfuge or assassination operations in our lands then it is the obligation of the Consul to inform the Senatvs of the given nation’s ill intentions against the Republic and to put on a vote for the assassination act to be put in affect. Then, if the vote is carried, the Roman assassins shall be instructed to take out important characters as the following: spies, assassins and diplomats.

§1.5 – Bribery.

If the given nation is seen bribe a character, army or city then the Senior Consul should inform the Senatvs as soon as possible in order to take action. The first move will be to take out the traitors as well as those who bribed them. After that a vote will be on the Senatvs to decide whether or not the act was threatening to the Res Publica or not. If found threatening, war will be declared at once against given nation.

2.

Acts considered as a declaration of hostility from a neutral nation.

§2.1 – The formation of an anti-Roman coalition (forming an alliance with an enemy of Rome) by a neutral nation and a nation deemed as an Enemy of Rome.

If such a tragic act falls to the attention of our Consul, he should report it at once in the Senatvs. The senators shall decree if the nation in question should be then named Hostes Populi Romani and be regarded as an enemy from that time forth. Then all actions from given nation shall be judged by its new disposition against the Res Publica.

§2.2 – The continuing and in a disturbing to trade use of Naval forces by a nation.

If a neutral nation uses its navy to block either the movement of our own ships or REPEATEDLY closes on our shores, something that disturbs naval trade a vote shall be in order to define if the navy in question is acting against the interests of the Res Publica. However, to declare war against that nation it would require at least the 100% support of all attending senators. If objections are heard, we shall wait them to make a move against us.

§2.3 – Usage of either spies or assassins against our cities and characters.

If reports show that a nation operates subterfuge or assassination operations in our lands then it is the obligation of the Consul to inform the Senatvs of the given nation’s ill intentions against the Republic and to put on a vote for the assassination act to be put in affect. Then, if the vote is carried, the Roman assassins shall be instructed to take out important characters as the following: spies, assassins and diplomats.

§2.4 – Bribery.

If the given nation is seen bribe a character, army or city then the Senior Consul should inform the Senatvs as soon as possible in order to take action. The first move will be to take out the traitors as well as those who bribed them. After that a vote will be on the Senatvs to decide whether or not the act was threatening to the Res Publica or not. If found threatening, war will be declared at once against given nation.

I bring this legislation before you so that we can debate and amend it where needed. If all senators agree then I will put it up for a vote;

ooc:Gaius Claudius Decimus,check the pages 4-6 on this thread;You will find the whole debate about the Lex Economica et Civila!

[Winter]

I must agree with this bill. An honorable piece of legislation!

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

My vote, noble Senators!

a)Economica et Civila Bill
Original bill:6
Amended bill:6
No bill:0

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

§1.3.1 - We deem that we shouldn’t trade with our former enemies if we suspect that the income generated by trade, would be put in military infrastructure, thus resurrecting the old threat. In the case though that the enemy nation is broken, powerless even with the right cash to put itself back in the powercourse then we should agree to trade rights.

Truly both of us will benefit from trade income, so this is nothing of an issue really. Even if our hostes are powerful enough to be a threat to us, we will too get the profits from trade, even if for just a few turns before war is re-declared. We should not completely forbid the the trade with powerful former hostes unless their situation is analised individually by the Senatvs.

And I should remark that when we trade our valuable Map Information, even with our Amici, then our cover is blown because we won't know for sure if they'll trade or not with our hostes, be they potential or real. They'll do this in secret, and all the purpose of our map info restrictions would be void.

I would like to add, it is necessary to completely forbid the trade of our precious map information unless we're in a dire need for an agreement or if we can get a lot of shiny advantages, enough to cover the damage from our exposure to the world. In either cases, we need special restrictions on this particular kind of trade.

[Kritias]

Marcvs Ivnivs Brvtvs says:

Your amendments are well thought and well placed,Senator;I see your point about the trading of map information.Would you agree with the purchase though of our neighbors map information? That way we may know a little bit more about the world we live in... As for the trade with Hostes,can we agree to grant trade rights after the deliberation of the Senatus?As to take each issue on its own and make the best possible decision.

ooc:Thanks winter!It means a lot you recognize the value of the lex Diplomatica...For the first time I propose something and I don't hear "Its an outrage,an outrage!!!"...

[sanada]

I would like to add, it is necessary to completely forbid the trade of our precious map information unless we're in a dire need for an agreement or if we can get a lot of shiny advantages, enough to cover the damage from our exposure to the world. In either cases, we need special restrictions on this particular kind of trade.

I agree, map information should not be given away at any cost.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Would you agree with the purchase though of our neighbors map information? That way we may know a little bit more about the world we live in...

Yes, as long as it doesn't include giving away our Romani maps. But of course, if they offer a lot (really a lot) of advantages rather than just map info, then the Senatvs will be consulted on this issue. But we should be very conservative when trusting the AI, especially when our maps and secrets are in the middle.

As for the trade with Hostes,can we agree to grant trade rights after the deliberation of the Senatus?As to take each issue on its own and make the best possible decision.

Analise each case individually, don't place any special restrictions for now.

And I'm with you, Senator Gracchvs! Your bill is a masterpiece of diplomatic regulation, really.

[Kritias]

ooc: Its Senator Marcvs Ivnivs Brvtvs...thats the reason I keep writing the name on top of every post...

[Marcus Tullius Cicero]

Ave men of distinction!

Truly both of us will benefit from trade income, so this is nothing of an issue really. Even if our hostes are powerful enough to be a threat to us, we will too get the profits from trade, even if for just a few turns before war is re-declared. We should not completely forbid the the trade with powerful former hostes unless their situation is analised individually by the Senatvs.

Agreed.

I would like to add, it is necessary to completely forbid the trade of our precious map information unless we're in a dire need for an agreement or if we can get a lot of shiny advantages, enough to cover the damage from our exposure to the world. In either cases, we need special restrictions on this particular kind of trade.

Surely the power of the Res Publica should be advertised openly, no, not to make a challenge.. but to show our significance, lest we not be given the honour we deserve at the hovels of barbarians!

Yes, as long as it doesn't include giving away our Romani maps. But of course, if they offer a lot (really a lot) of advantages rather than just map info, then the Senatvs will be consulted on this issue. But we should be very conservative when trusting the AI, especially when our maps and secrets are in the middle.

I doubt that will EVER happen... oppostion map info is regarded as a low-valued possession to the AI (i.e. they wont give much in return for it).

Analise each case individually, don't place any special restrictions for now.

Agreed.


I agree with your proposals and the deletion of clause 1.3.1

Valete.

[Marcus Tullius Cicero]

§2.3 – Usage of either spies or assassins against our cities and characters.

If reports show that a nation operates subterfuge or assassination operations in our lands then it is the obligation of the Consul to inform the Senatvs of the given nation’s ill intentions against the Republic and to put on a vote for the assassination act to be put in affect. Then, if the vote is carried, the Roman assassins shall be instructed to take out important characters as the following: spies, assassins and diplomats.

As long as this is per infringement, not a conclusive measure for all incroachments to come...

[Kritias]

ooc:edited clause 1.3.1 out...

ooc2:Thats the main idea Cicero;Thats why we have a vote instead of simply putting the assassination act into effect!

[Marcus Tullius Cicero]

ooc: I gathered that just wasn't sure whether there was a single motion or one for each... nvm

[Calvin]

Having studied the legislation, I can say that I am happy with it, and would congratulate the author(s).

Gnaeus Aurelius Libo

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

ooc: Its Senator Marcvs Ivnivs Brvtvs...thats the reason I keep writing the name on top of every post...

Sorry, Senator... I'm still taking everybody by their usernames yet .

Senator Iunius Brutus, alas, known ooc as Gracchus .

[Kritias]

Marcvs Ivnivs Brvtvs speaks:

Seeing that the majority of the senators are in favor of the Lex Diplomatica and that no objections to its principal values is heard,I shall put the legislation up for vote.

Lex Diplomatica:

Yay 1 - Nay 0

[Calvin]

Lex Diplomatica

Yay 2 - 0 Nay

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Lex Diplomatica

Yay 3 - 0 Nay

[Winter]

Lex Diplomatica 4 yea 0 nay

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I doubt that will EVER happen... oppostion map info is regarded as a low-valued possession to the AI (i.e. they wont give much in return for it).

Even so, it's not wise to leave holes in the legislation. Even for the most improbable cases.