Factions with Trade/Gold Surplus curve?

**Mikel** · October 27, 2007, 04:39 AM

Ive read some posts discussing that after a while, trade and gold become abundant. In my recent game, as Spain, it has become obvious that Genoa is the object of my post.

It slowly entered a war against HRE, and took over some of the northern italian cities. Then it made peace and went to war with Venice and took all of northern italy except venice.

Now its basically taken the entire peninsula, except for Salerno and Napoli, which belong to me, and Sicily. Currently its liberating fights against Spain, Freance, Sicily and Hungary with crusades on its territories and still expanding, growing, taking territory in France and elsewhere. The graphs show that its financial problems have not stopped it, since it doesnt have trading partners, and its military continues to expand along with its production.

Basically, it has 5 full stacks in the peninsula and around 3 more fighting north. It can't be stopped. My economy as Spain is slow, I only have two cities from which to recruit while I build up a navy to fight the Genoese navy and then eb able to get troops from Iberia to Italia and try to beat this bastard..but it seems impossible with its capacity to simply remake full stacks in 2 turns..

**Socal_infidel** · October 27, 2007, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Mikel

Ive read some posts discussing that after a while, trade and gold become abundant. In my recent game, as Spain, it has become obvious that Genoa is the object of my post.

It slowly entered a war against HRE, and took over some of the northern italian cities. Then it made peace and went to war with Venice and took all of northern italy except venice.

Now its basically taken the entire peninsula, except for Salerno and Napoli, which belong to me, and Sicily. Currently its liberating fights against Spain, Freance, Sicily and Hungary with crusades on its territories and still expanding, growing, taking territory in France and elsewhere. The graphs show that its financial problems have not stopped it, since it doesnt have trading partners, and its military continues to expand along with its production.

Basically, it has 5 full stacks in the peninsula and around 3 more fighting north. It can't be stopped. My economy as Spain is slow, I only have two cities from which to recruit while I build up a navy to fight the Genoese navy and then eb able to get troops from Iberia to Italia and try to beat this bastard..but it seems impossible with its capacity to simply remake full stacks in 2 turns..

The AI economy does merit further investigation...as it stands the increased build times and upkeep costs can cripple an AI faction without assistance. While at the same time, AI assistance can lead it to field armies a human player could only dream of affording at times....

I'm open to suggestions....

**Mikel** · October 27, 2007, 09:52 PM

I'd have to say it, but I hate even more when people criticize and don't deliver any possible solutions, and at this moment I am sorry to say I am that guy because I have no way of knowing how to solve this problem.

**Gigantus** · October 29, 2007, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by Socal_infidel

The AI economy does merit further investigation...as it stands the increased build times and upkeep costs can cripple an AI faction without assistance. While at the same time, AI assistance can lead it to field armies a human player could only dream of affording at times....

I'm open to suggestions....

The script says something like this:
If the AI hasn't got a positive balance, give him money.

When all the cities build something due to long building times, the surplus money gets put into recruiting. Ergo: more units = more expenses = more assistance.

Ever seen the AI fielding three full stacks with only one province? The above is the reason why.

We might have to set the level for the assistance further down, I guess.

**VirusITA** · October 29, 2007, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by gigantus

The script says something like this:
If the AI hasn't got a positive balance, give him money.

When all the cities build something due to long building times, the surplus money gets put into recruiting. Ergo: more units = more expenses = more assistance.

Ever seen the AI fielding three full stacks with only one province? The above is the reason why.

We might have to set the level for the assistance further down, I guess.

I know that the game cheats and how much is frustrating to block ports, ruin enemy economy for nothing, but it's quite easy to beat AI right now, imagine how it could be without assistance. We reached a perfect balance modding without touching AI cheats and i suggest to keep them again.

**Mikel** · October 29, 2007, 04:19 AM

Well my main dissatisfaction is that the game gets to a point where the AI has developed its economy enough to field massive amounts of armies., and going to war means to endlessly fight off the waves of stacks they can produce, while somehow slowly either A) Capturing all their provinces because they're hell bent on fighting you or B) Playing a defensive strategy but that means, as stated before, still fighting off endless waves of stack after stack.

**Socal_infidel** · October 29, 2007, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Mikel

Well my main dissatisfaction is that the game gets to a point where the AI has developed its economy enough to field massive amounts of armies., and going to war means to endlessly fight off the waves of stacks they can produce, while somehow slowly either A) Capturing all their provinces because they're hell bent on fighting you or B) Playing a defensive strategy but that means, as stated before, still fighting off endless waves of stack after stack.

Like I said, I'll see what I can do about this. The AI assistance definitely needs addressing.

Cheers!

**Mikel** · October 29, 2007, 05:57 PM

Well I noteiced somethind in Cordoba, on my recent campaign. Most building units I built would be give me a +30 to +100 gold increase at the beginning. Once it got to a large city, a trade or road building would increase gold income by +500 to +1000. And the building time was 25% more to that of a normal City. Instead of 6-8 turns it would be 10-12. No wonder all the AI cities I conquer are extremly developed.

IMO, I think that the player and the AI should have far fewer stacks. Maybe its because I put the AI policy to Spend instead of Save, which in turn makes them spend all their gold and therfore need MORE gold. And with that more armies and then you suddenly have Genoa, Milan, France, Scotland, etc spamming troops like there is no tomorrow. Portugal, Moors, HRE and England, however, do not have that problem. Theyre usually wiped out.

**Gigantus** · October 29, 2007, 09:25 PM

Portugal = poor starting position
Moors = never seen any nation getting them out of Africa
HRE = too stretched
England = poor starting position

Guess if you would put the land bridges back at Gibraltar and the Channel things would look somewhat different.

**Mikel** · October 30, 2007, 12:55 PM

I fail to see how England, starting with more provinces than Scotland, is in a poorer position. Maybe there can be a script made to ensure that England expands into the island first and then into France?

Also, I tend to play as Castile which in any case makes England and Sicily the obvious out of the blue factions that attack me in 1 turn and then ask for a cease fire inthe second.

**Jihada** · October 30, 2007, 07:36 PM

I played a few factions to 1200 about with gigantus' latest fix and mostly england takes over britain, not always. HRE isn t so powerful as before but moors never expand into spain. Byz usually does well . So perhaps replacing the gibraltar landbridge at least might be good.

**Mikel** · October 30, 2007, 08:17 PM

I like it without the bridge...just like Sicily.

**Socal_infidel** · October 31, 2007, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Jihada

I played a few factions to 1200 about with gigantus' latest fix and mostly england takes over britain, not always. HRE isn t so powerful as before but moors never expand into spain. Byz usually does well . So perhaps replacing the gibraltar landbridge at least might be good.

Originally Posted by Mikel

I like it without the bridge...just like Sicily.

I'm not a fan of the Gibraltar landbridge. Simply because, in my experience, while it may help the Moors, it helps Portugal and Spain more.

I may have to tone down the rebel garrisons in Iberia and maybe increase the strength/quality of Yusuf's army that starts out in Iberia to facilitate Moorish expansion.

**Mikel** · October 31, 2007, 10:11 AM

Why not give Yusuf Granada and Cordoba? I mean, historically speaking they did have Cordoba, Granada, Murcia, Silves, Lisboa and Valencia...

So maybe they could get Granada plus an extra stack in the peninsula that they could use to attack Cordoba in order to be on even foot?

**Socal_infidel** · October 31, 2007, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mikel

Why not give Yusuf Granada and Cordoba? I mean, historically speaking they did have Cordoba, Granada, Murcia, Silves, Lisboa and Valencia...

So maybe they could get Granada plus an extra stack in the peninsula that they could use to attack Cordoba in order to be on even foot?

Well, historically they did not depose the Taifa princes until 1090 or so. And I like to stick to historical starting positions as much as possible.

**Mikel** · October 31, 2007, 04:57 PM

lol at No Man's Land: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../5f/Taifas.gif

But by 1090 half the peninsula belonged to the Almoravids. Maybe we could do something for them..dont know what though, except to give them armies in the peninsula.

**Socal_infidel** · November 01, 2007, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mikel

lol at No Man's Land: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../5f/Taifas.gif

But by 1090 half the peninsula belonged to the Almoravids. Maybe we could do something for them..dont know what though, except to give them armies in the peninsula.

Yeah, hopefully toning down the garrison in Granada will facilitate their gaining a toehold in Iberia from which to expand