Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Problem With Mumakil

  1. #1
    Legio XII's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    461

    Default Problem With Mumakil

    When playing as Harad, I attempt to attack settlement gates and wooden walls with my Mumakil, which I assume I am allowed to do, since I don't have to lay seige and can attack immediately. (And no, I don't have a spy in the settlement, so I know it's the Mumakil that are allowing me to do it.)The problem is, when I order them to attack the walls or gates, they walk up to them and just start turning in circles. This is pretty irritating to have one of my most powerful units not function correctly. Any suggestions or help? I have installed the 2.4 patch and it hasn't helped. I have also done a complete reinstall. No effect.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    This is something we cannot do much about unfortunately. We have already spent hours to optimise the various setting of the mount but that's about all that can be done. It's the mumakil's sheer size that makes the engine unable to handle it 100% effectively. It is not broken however, by any means. If you give it some time it *will* find its way. Actually while testing I've seen times when it would only take a couple of attempts.

    So, just be patient and give it some time.

  3. #3
    Legio XII's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Ok. Thanks for all of the work you have put into this. I apologize if I sounded like a whiny little ***** in my previous post. I just kinda got irritated when my mumakil got wiped out by enemy javelineers while sitting outside the walls. Not a real problem, though. (being OCD about saving my games helps). Thanks. Still an awesome mod.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio XII View Post
    Ok. Thanks for all of the work you have put into this. I apologize if I sounded like a whiny little ***** in my previous post. I just kinda got irritated when my mumakil got wiped out by enemy javelineers while sitting outside the walls. Not a real problem, though. (being OCD about saving my games helps). Thanks. Still an awesome mod.
    When facing wood walled settlements, just send archers in, make sure they're carefully formed up and positioned so the towers don't hit them and kill or force anyone away from the wood walls and gates while you attempt to breach them. Of course it get difficult when your archers encountered other archers on the other side of the wall.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    I've got different problems with them... on the receiving end.

    My settlement was attacked by a full stack of haradrim with 4 mumakils with them. I didn't had any archers available. My force consisted of 2 units of spearmen and 2 units of men at arms of Dol Amroth and the bodyguard of my heir to throne of Gondor.
    I was praying that those Mumakil would take too long to breach the walls but that 'bug' didn't hold them for long. I had my spearmen positioned in the smallest part of the road up to the townsquare with some Men at Arms positioned in an alley of this road hoping to charge the flank of the advancing enemy when my spearmen had stopped them. I had the other spearmen guard another road which was likely to be used and the other unit of Men at Arms in reserve on the townsquare. My Generals Bodyguard was set up so that it would sweep down any stragglers and could launch an attack in the rear to take pressure away from my spearmen.
    This worked like a charm and for about 15 minutes it looked like I might have pulled it off...
    But then those dreaded Mumakil found a way in. They attacked the spearmen that I had positioned to guard the backroad in and utterly crushed them in a time space of 30 seconds. I couldn't even drop one down. I send the reserve in of the Men at Arms but they didn't even last longer then 10 seconds. A minute later they were chewing away my spearmen who had hold the other road so long... A late cavalry attack from my bodyguard in the rear of the filled road was a great but too late success. I couldn't reach the townsquare which was occupied by the mumakil in time to prevent defeat.

    Now I found it rather strange that a single unit of spearmen can hold off an entire host of Haradrim for more then 15 minutes while in combat while 4 Mumakils can slaughter a whole defending force in 2 minutes... Even with archers it's hard to put 'em down but without them it looks sheer impossible?
    Last time I put one down it fell straight on my Longbows taking half of them down...
    Can nothing else then archers stop 'em?
    I'm not retreating, I'm just advancing in another direction.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Well, if you build a brick-wall, and you shoot at it with 1000 water-guns for 10 days, it will never come down. If you combine this water and shoot it once in a giant blast from a huge pump, it's very likely you will breach the wall. Your infantry, while able to hold off large numbers of weaker soldiers, just can't stop 4 giant, angry beasts with their shields, that's only natural.

    Of course there are ways to stop them. From a distance. Archers with flaming arrows have a chance, catapults and ballistae will most probably kill them if they hit them, but my choice would be units made up of hunters and men that have their way with wild beasts; namely skirmishers. Try to intercept a unit of Mumakil with 2-3 companies of javelimen and see how much damage you will do.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    Well, if you build a brick-wall, and you shoot at it with 1000 water-guns for 10 days, it will never come down. If you combine this water and shoot it once in a giant blast from a huge pump, it's very likely you will breach the wall. Your infantry, while able to hold off large numbers of weaker soldiers, just can't stop 4 giant, angry beasts with their shields, that's only natural.

    Of course there are ways to stop them. From a distance. Archers with flaming arrows have a chance, catapults and ballistae will most probably kill them if they hit them, but my choice would be units made up of hunters and men that have their way with wild beasts; namely skirmishers. Try to intercept a unit of Mumakil with 2-3 companies of javelimen and see how much damage you will do.
    I don't disagree on the fact that those Mumakil breach formations with ease. It's logical. I just find the rate in which they killed my spearmen and Men at Arms a bit too fast. They were killing my troops in a rate of 7men a second or so.
    I'm just disappointed that without any ranged units you don't stand a chance against them. I had a lot of problems getting my economy profitable when playing the RK. It took me 3 years or so to get out of debts and naturally your armies are stretched thin by that moment. So I wasn't able to garrison ranged units in all my settlements near hostile borders.
    The settlement they attacked was Emyn Armen (correct?) and I had most of my ranged units guarding the crossing in Osgiliath hoping that army could relief a siege. But as you know with the Mumakil you can strike at once.

    To sum it all up. I'm wondering how to stop Mumakil when you don't have ranged units. I'm astonished by the speed with which they annihilate a complete unit. And I agree with you on the fact that they should break up a formation with ease.
    I'm not retreating, I'm just advancing in another direction.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    First of all let me say that you are *not* supposed to stop Mumakil with your infantry. And they *are* supposed to wreak havoc against this particular category of troops. If you don't have archers however, here is what you can do to can minimise your loses: Cavalry are hardcoded to not be "toss-able", so Mumakil cannot 'launch' them in the air. If you use a decent amount of cavalry you can bog the beasties down and then use infantry to kill them while they are relatively still and less dangerous. While not moving the Mumakil are not *that* strong. This will not be very easy of course...
    Enjoy!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    First of all let me say that you are *not* supposed to stop Mumakil with your infantry. And they *are* supposed to wreak havoc against this particular category of troops. If you don't have archers however, here is what you can do to can minimise your loses: Cavalry are hardcoded to not be "toss-able", so Mumakil cannot 'launch' them in the air. If you use a decent amount of cavalry you can bog the beasties down and then use infantry to kill them while they are relatively still and less dangerous. While not moving the Mumakil are not *that* strong. This will not be very easy of course...
    Enjoy!
    Thanks for the tip. In this particular case I thought about using my cavalry but since it was my heir to the throne I was reluctant to do so.

    Also, I find it a bit disappointing u can't retrain the Elves of Ithilien. I understand the reasons for this, the deminishing of the Elves etc. But it would have been great when you could retrain them after a certain time. Let's say like every 25 turns or so. I already use 'em very carefully, only in critical situations and then way behind my other archers but still... You can't prevent them from dying.

    For the moment I'm definitly enjoying the mod, I'm only discovering it at the moment but really... Fine work. But realise that you have only scratched the surface of it's true potential. Should be a real dilemma... So much to do, or that you could do and so little time

    Hopefully one day somebody will find the time to do a mod about the First Age too... My 'The Silmarillion' is falling apart from the extensive use of it
    I'm not retreating, I'm just advancing in another direction.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    But realise that you have only scratched the surface of it's true potential.
    Always open to suggestions!

    We cannot have units retrainable every x years, the engine doesn't allow it. It is either non-retrainable or retrainable every turn.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Meh, my problem with the Mumakil is that Harad never uses them. In over 4 RK games, I've seen the animals only twice or so, and never more than two at a time.

  12. #12
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    16,707

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Well, they were becoming more rare in the Fourth Age
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."
    The Fourth Age: Total War - The Dominion of Men

  13. #13

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    It's poaching I tell you! Mumak ivory is worth much more than elephant ivory, and the quantity you get from a beast is larger too! (But on the other hand, it's harder to kill a mumakil...)

    (Rumours say that they are almost extinct now because of the filming of the trilogy. When Orlanda "Legolas" Bloom did his thing he killed not one, but five of them because the first one failed.)
    Last edited by Arakorn; October 28, 2007 at 01:20 PM.

  14. #14
    MasterOfNone's Avatar RTW Modder 2004-2015
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    16,707

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    LOL.
    "One of the most sophisticated Total War mods ever developed..."
    The Fourth Age: Total War - The Dominion of Men

  15. #15

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    Always open to suggestions!

    We cannot have units retrainable every x years, the engine doesn't allow it. It is either non-retrainable or retrainable every turn.
    not that i say they should be retrainable, but cuoldn't this theoretically be solved by adding it as a mercenary unit?
    (ok, then other factions could also get it but)

  16. #16

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    Yes that would be a solution for the trainable/retrainable issue, but then it would be completely off-lore to see a Haradrian army with Ithilien Elves as mercenaries...
    Another way is to make them trainable only in Ithilien (use the gardens of Ithilien building and make them RK-specific) BUT at a VERY high cost and they should take 100+ turns (for example), so that in fact you'd never attempt to recruit them, but you could retrain them as usual, though at a very very high cost. That is not lore-accurate though and it's not gonna be implemented in the mod, so I'm only posting it a suggestion for those that die to be able to retrain their Elves...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    What would one need to edit to change this so that elves can be retrained at the Gardens (and dwarves at the Hornburg, for that matter)?

    I recognize that it is true that by lore, both should be very few in number, but having them be unretrainable makes them too precious.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    To modify it so you can retrain them (or spend 100 turns recruiting) you need to edit "export_descr_units" and "export_descr_buildings."

    In EDU you need to find the archers' entry then edit their build time to a ridiculous amount (or not) and the ownership (if it's not already for RK.)

    Then you need to edit the building you want to be able to recruit them. By adding 'recruit "(dictionary name in EDU)" 0 (or what exp you want it to have) requires factions {(RK's internal name), }'

    Hopefully that will work.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    That's correct with the exception that you need the unit's ID (first line in the EDU) and not the dictionary name to be put in the EDB. The building you should probably tie the Elves too is the rk_temple_gardens (gardens of Ithilien). The dwarves should be made available where there are the "rohan" and "non_fert" hidden resources, in a building of your choosing.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Problem With Mumakil

    I used the Hornburg. If one has to be able to "retrain" 'em, this is the closest to where they live (these ones, that is).

    Thanks for the help. Its not a vital tweak, but it is nice.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •