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Thread: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

  1. #1
    Sadreddine's Avatar Lost in a Paradise Lost
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    Default Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    A long time ago I learned about this controversy and I've decided to see what the TWC crowd thinks about this:

    The first document to be printed on it was to become known as Napoleon’s “Proclamation to the Egyptians.” These are extracts translated from the contemporary Egyptian historian Abd al-Rahman al-Jabarti by Dr Saladin Boustany, now director of the Al Arab publishing house in Cairo.


    “O Egyptians! You have been told that I have come to this land with the intention of eradicating you religion. But that is a clear lie; do not believe it […]. I […] worship God, glory be to him, and respect his prophet and the great Quran […] O you shaykhs, judges, imams, jurbaiyya, and leading men of the country that the French are also sincere Muslims.”

    In evidence for this sincerity Napoleon goes on,

    “[The French] entered Rome and destroyed the throne of the Pope, who had always urged Christians to combat Islam. Then they marched to Malta, whence they expelled the knights, who claimed that God, exalted is He, sought of them that they fight the Muslims […]”

    According to another eyewitness Napoleon topped and tailed the proclamation with the immortal and significant phrase, “God is great and Mohammed is his prophet.” According to Islam to say that, is to become a Muslim. In their eyes he was converting to Islam by that very proclamation, and by the tone of the proclamation he was doing it for the whole of France. Indeed one of his generals, Jacques ‘Abdallah’ Menou did convert and Bonaparte promised the conversion of the entire army (with the provisos that they were to be allowed to continue drinking wine and could keep their foreskins).
    http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/657

    And:

    Napoleon's conciliatory approach to Islam is well documented. He is known to have admired the Mohammed - he even learned off by heart several suras of the Koran. His relationship with Christianity being one of a practical statesman - religion was useful as long as it was comforting to society, but dangerous if it lead to fanaticism. And his frank disbelief in the Trinity caused him to adopt monotheistic attitude, obviously not a million miles from Islam.
    http://www.napoleon.org/en/reading_r...leon_egypt.asp

    Was this a tool for control, was it sincere, or simple delusion of the catholic faith? Discuss.
    Struggling by the Pen since February 2007.

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  2. #2
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    He was demonstrably a Freemason. As such, he viewed both Islam and Christianity as tools, and at the same time, remnants (if somehow altered) of what was considered the original masonic cult (true "religion" in masonic eyes). Freemasons hate Christians though, because of the persecution of Templars.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    The question that remains is:

    Was Napoleon Sunni or Shi'ite? Now the real war begins!
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  4. #4
    Erwin Rommel's Avatar EYE-PATCH FETISH
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    just some propaganda to avoid messing with the muslims..........

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  5. #5
    Sadreddine's Avatar Lost in a Paradise Lost
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Comnenus View Post
    just some propaganda to avoid messing with the muslims..........
    Ahh, I expected this sort of answer sooner or later...

    Those were actual declarations Napoleon made. The second site I linked is napoleon.org, hardly a "muslim propaganda" website, the first one is a press article. Nothing specially muslim about them, you see.

    What should be discussed here are the reasons behind the event/declarations.
    Struggling by the Pen since February 2007.

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  6. #6
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Rushd View Post
    Ahh, I expected this sort of answer sooner or later...

    Those were actual declarations Napoleon made. The second site I linked is napoleon.org, hardly a "muslim propaganda" website, the first one is a press article. Nothing specially muslim about them, you see.

    What should be discussed here are the reasons behind the event/declarations.
    I think he meant propaganda by Napoleon and not by the Muslims...

    Anyway, it is not the first time when a Leader panders to the religious feeling of his subjects (or his prospective subjects). Alexander did pretty much the same...Hitler too...

  7. #7

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    You forgot one important declaration. He announced him self as the protector of Islam as well, but I believe these things were pure for his own interest and not so much for the islamic faith. I don't believe Napoleon was a Muslim or what so ever, but then again: we can never know for sure.
    The law is reason free from passion - Aristotle.

    The end does NOT justify the means.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Of course Napoleon wasn't a Muslim.

    Thread Over.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Of course he wasn't muslim, it's a rediculous notion.

    remnants (if somehow altered) of what was considered the original masonic cult (true "religion" in masonic eyes).
    I recently went to a freemason's society and asked about such things. They told me quite clearly that such notions of masonry being connected so far back is more myth then fact, created very much by opponents to liken them to a cult. They are not at all associated with religion, though to become a member you must be a theist.

    Freemasons hate Christians though, because of the persecution of Templars.
    Wrong again, most freemasons, atleast here, are Christians, with a scattering of deists and jews for good measure. This is true of much of the globe. Actual freemasonry, in its present form, cannot be tracked back further then the eighteenth century at the earliest, and associations with things such as the templars, illuminanti and major political movements prior to this are myths and legends. Its not even proven the illuminanti had anything to do with either of the other groups, rather another myth.

  10. #10
    Blau&Gruen's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Do the loges accept women, nowadays?
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Like the others have said, most likely a propaganda move by Napoleon with some guidance from a local scholar or one of his own troops more familiar with the Muslim world.

    Though he honestly enjoyed the place, so I guess there was some sincerity with his friendliness to Islam. Either way, it played out well enough for him, and helped him gain some measure of stability in his rule.



    Although... saying all those things above does legally make him a Muslim according to Islam.


    So while I'd doubt he was a practicing Muslim of any kind.... I'd say he pretty much professed his way into becoming one in name.

  12. #12
    Darsh's Avatar Maréchal de l'Empire
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Napoleon wasn't a muslim like he wasn't a christian, the religion was only a tool for him to assure his autority and the civil peace for the nation.

    a very interesting article in French about the religion and Napoleon:
    http://www.napoleon.org/fr/salle_lec...n_religion.asp

    Légion étrangère : « Honneur et Fidélité »

  13. #13
    Mig el Pig's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post


    So while I'd doubt he was a practicing Muslim of any kind.... I'd say he pretty much professed his way into becoming one in name.
    Except that he didn't mention it one time after he had left egypt.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~The Doctor~ View Post
    Of course Napoleon wasn't a Muslim.

    Thread Over.
    It would be interesting if everybody responded to this thread like you or the complete opposite way.

    Of course Napoleon was a Muslim

    Of course Napoleon wasn't a Muslim.


    Rep for your argumenting skills!
    The law is reason free from passion - Aristotle.

    The end does NOT justify the means.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    From me Napoleon wasn't a Muslim

  16. #16

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mig el Pig View Post
    Except that he didn't mention it one time after he had left egypt.

    Like I said, probably not a practicing Muslim by any means...

    But a profession is a profession.


    Just because you never see your wife after the wedding, you're still technically a married man.

  17. #17
    Mig el Pig's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    Just because you never see your wife after the wedding, you're still technically a married man.
    touché

    Still don't think he was a muslim (or religious for that matter)
    He was a pragmatist though and I think it should be regarded as such.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    Of course, I think the same thing. It was all a calculated move to appease his new conquered territory. Though I think he did have a bit of an amiable perception towards Islam.


    Still, I'm merely saying that, by Islamic perspective and possibly law, he officially did what needed to be done to be considered an Islamic convert. I doubt he actually meant for that to happen.

    Kinda like those comedies where an outsider hero stumbles onto a native tribe, spends the night confused as to what's going on, and wakes up married to the chief's daughter.

  19. #19
    Darsh's Avatar Maréchal de l'Empire
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    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    During the Egyptian expedition, the tolerance for Napoleon was one of his principes toward the muslim like christianism for christian, for pragmatic reasons.
    He said :<< Le fanatisme est toujours produit par la persécution.
    L'athée est un meilleur sujet que le fanatique: l'un obéit, l'autre tue>>.
    (the fanatism is always produce by the persecution, the atheist is a better subject than the fanatic: one obey, another kill)

    Légion étrangère : « Honneur et Fidélité »

  20. #20

    Default Re: Napoleon Bonaparte, a Muslim?

    I recently went to a freemason's society and asked about such things. They told me quite clearly that such notions of masonry being connected so far back is more myth then fact, created very much by opponents to liken them to a cult. They are not at all associated with religion, though to become a member you must be a theist.
    If you must be a theist then how can a deist be a mason? It's not that you must be a theist, it's just that you must believe in a Supreme Being.

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