BROKEN CRESCENT: Questions and Suggestions

[Miraj]

Since the build has changed since the last time I asked.

How will the Mongol Invasions play out? Like how many stacks do they get on their first wave?

In your play tests how far do the Mongols advance?

Are they able to recruit the same units in the middle east (levies) as the other factions?

Is the Ilkhanate in the game? And is its/ Mongol empire simulated break up simulated?

Is the Mongol Empire roster changed from vanilla like the addition of new units?

1) They get a lot of stacks, around 10 I think.
2) They advance pretty fast and straight into persia. Although I haven't been able to test them that much.
3) Currently the Mongols can't recruit anything.
4) No and No.
5) No.

[Emperor E]

The mod is not being released yet or soon at the moment so stop asking if it is done and let the BC team get on with finishing the mod, and not wasting there time answering silly questions if the mod is done yet or when will it be realesed.

[Hansa]

Good, frankly I see no rush. I understand why some people are getting restless, but this should be attributed only to the brilliant screenshots and other candy you have shown so far. It is a clear indicator of the accomplishment of the team, nothing else, and the team deserves it.

Personally, Id like to see the Mongols done before the mod comes out as well. Even though I am probably older than most of your fans, I see little reason for worrying about dying of old age before the mod is released, even if it is delayed by some months. Don't worry, people can wait.

[The Mongol]

Was this thread really needed? I mean, there is stickies after all.

@Hansa: Don't hold your breath for the Mongols to be done for 1.0

[Miraj]

No this thread is not really needed, hence it is now merged with Q&S thread.

[Kiki52]

Hello

Sorry I hope this hasn't been asked before.

Will the Kingdom of Jerusalem have reinforcements from England and other places come in by boat, like scripted events that spawn at a certain time?

Or will they have anything like the New Spain in the Americas campaign, where if the KoJ performs well in battles more reinforcements from Europe appear or gain gold or something?

I'd hope something like this would happen as I want truely epic battles as Saladin because the KoJ are constantly sending in more full stacks of troops at you instead of just you steamrolling Jerusalem then poof they are gone within the first three turns.

[Miraj]

KOJ gets a dedicated "crusades" script. Basically if a muslim faction takes Jerusalem, Jaffa or Acre (and a few other) then the the crusades are triggered. Of course where and which KoJ reinforcment stacks show up is based on the date. For example if you decide to go all out on KoJ around 1174 then Barbarossa and his son will spawn to save the day - if you decide to attack KoJ in 1191 then you'll face a double attack of both Barbarossa and Richard the Lionheart. etc etc.

For the KOJ player I'm going to be setting up a new script which will allow the player to actually "call" Europe for help. I will explain this once I've implemented it and it works.

So when you combine the crusader script with the garrison scripts it will be very hard wiping out the KoJ, they won't go easy.

[demostene]

Hi, I'm a fun of BC, which I consider the only true mod beeing worth playing in the entire forum.

Though this, I have noticed today, as I was looking to the gorgeous map for the 21st time, that Red Sea doesn't comunicate with the Indian Ocean. And it's a matter of few inches!

So, as the trade links between Egypt and India were a foundant part of the region economy since the fatmids, and as I think that in terms of gameplay having the factions of the Nilus valley isolated from the rest of the map eastward (the arabian desert is a challange!) is actually a pity (no sea invasion on the persian coasts, and no rich searoutes!), I kindly ask you if it could be possible to expand the map southward, just a bit, so that the two seas can comunicate.

thanks in advance, non depending on your decision.

[Miraj]

Hmm yeah. That has been pondered on. I do regret cutting of that "seaway" - when I established BC I never planned to do Makuria or Oman hence why I thought cutting that off would be good.

I will try to fudge in a sea-way and check if its geographically believable. Expanding the map south is not currently feasible.

But its not too much of a problem IMO. Because historically there was never sea-invasions from the horn of africa to india. And you can launch sea raids on the Indian ocean by taking Yemen anyways.

But I'll try.

[Malik of Sindh]

3) Currently the Mongols can't recruit anything.

So when they run out of stacks they will be pushed back to China fast?Even if they conquer Persia reliying on mercenaries won't be very easy for them.Or are you going to add some units to recruit for them later?

[AlphaDelta]

So when they run out of stacks they will be pushed back to China fast?

The grinding war of attrition that vanilla M2TW showcased was so dull. In practically every campaign I played, they would keep coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming and coming.

Defending settlements with militia spearmen bundled in the gates against repeated tit for tat Mongol armies was almost as boring as typing that last sentence. Decisive field battles are far more enjoyable and historically accurate.

The Mongols in BC are a horde that can be defeated. We want them to come in, create a bloody mess, threaten and destroy a good number of factions on the map, and then finally to be pushed back once their numbers are depleted. If the Mongols could of recruited hordes of elite Mongol cavalry from every corner of a map (as they could in vanilla M2TW), the middle east would be very different today.

In summary, we don't wish them to be a permanent fixture on the map. The worst thing would be for them to be forever conquering, slowly consuming every faction, with huge armies of free upkeep easily replenished troops.

Like many other aspects of BC, they are there to provide a challenge to the player.

Even if they conquer Persia reliying on mercenaries won't be very easy for them.

Mongols should be relying upon levies rather than Mercs. However this poses another problem, who wants to fight endless armies of easily defeated levy spearmen?

Cheers

[Malik of Sindh]

Oh,ok.I was hoping so.

[Emperor E]

YAY so the mongols wont be such a pain as in vanilla

[Ieuano]

tell that to the Khwarezmshah...

[Emperor E]

tell that to the Khwarezmshah...

ok khwarezmshah
the mongols wont be such a pain as they where in vanilla

[Shadowcry]

Just out of curiosity, Why should the Mongols be considered an impermanent force on the map?

Since their arrival in the middle east there have been "Mongol" successor states to the empire. I know the way Ca made them was quite inaccurate and they became quite annoying having played a lot of battles with them. But they were meant to be a good challenge in so that when you faced them you would always have this fear of losing your army no matter how good your generalship, and thats what I like about how they were portrayed. I mean even after the Mongols had settled in Persia they were still a considerable threat to all the other nations around them. The Khan Ghazan defeated the mamelukes twice even after Ayn Jalut which showed Mongol skill in warfare even in the face of internal struggles and assimilating into the populace.

I'm just advocating that even late into the 1300s even though the mongol army has fallen apart they should still remain a strong force as their successor states were. So could it be possible that their recruitment could be tweaked so that when they settle down they lose their low upkeep and have to pay normal "price"?

[Miraj]

Just out of curiosity, Why should the Mongols be considered an impermanent force on the map?

Since their arrival in the middle east there have been "Mongol" successor states to the empire. I know the way Ca made them was quite inaccurate and they became quite annoying having played a lot of battles with them. But they were meant to be a good challenge in so that when you faced them you would always have this fear of losing your army no matter how good your generalship, and thats what I like about how they were portrayed. I mean even after the Mongols had settled in Persia they were still a considerable threat to all the other nations around them. The Khan Ghazan defeated the mamelukes twice even after Ayn Jalut which showed Mongol skill in warfare even in the face of internal struggles and assimilating into the populace - well after the initial invasions and G. Khan's death.

I'm just advocating that even late into the 1300s even though the mongol army has fallen apart they should still remain a strong force as their successor states were. So could it be possible that their recruitment could be tweaked so that when they settle down they lose their low upkeep and have to pay normal "price"?

I partially agree with you.

The thing is that historically Genghis Khan's initial invasion was really not about occupying Persia. His goal was to pretty much do a demolition and massacre-job as a form of both retaliation for the Khwarezm-Shah's arrogance and to of course destroy the civil infrastructure of Khorasan and Persia (along with its people of course). In fact after doing precisely this the mongols left persia for a decade or so. Only with the return of Hulagu and the establishment of the Ilkhanate did the mongols establish a real successor state.

So now the actual game. The initial "mongol" faction and its emergence is supposed to represent Genghis Khan's initial invasion of Khwarezm, Persia and Afghanistan. Hence it is represented as an alien army in a foreign land. Which is why it makes sense to keep them from "putting down roots" - they are supposed to be one-shot challenge - a very tough one - for the eastern player. As BC is really focused on the pre-mongol Muslim factions, it's within the spirit of the TW genre to be able to "change" history and beat back the mongols.

However, I agree that the Mongols later did establish the Ilkhanate which was a true successor state. Which is why I propose that in the future when/if we move to Kingdoms that we set up a new event that signals this. My basic idea is that if the Mongol hordes capture at a few key Persian cities by a certain date an new event is triggered which "converts" the Mongol Empire to the "Ilkhanate". This new faction would get ability to recruit a full roster (mainly already exisiting turkomans, just like in history) and would be mid-east culture and upon the death of Hulagu (whom I would spawn) would become Muslim.

[Emperor E]

thats seems like an excellant idea once again mirage, keep your ideas coming

[Malik of Sindh]

Is economy going to be a problem in BC?I would like it if it would be atleast hard to maintain a large l33t army.

[Lupu]

|33t army???

1 h4v3 0n1y h3ard ab0ut |33t sp33ch...