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Thread: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

  1. #1
    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    What? It's a legitimate question.

    Think about the money that the state spends on incarcerating inmates. It's at least $28,000 per inmate, annually. Wouldn't flogging them be quicker and cheaper? The flogged criminal learns his lesson, the public sees it so they know who he is, and the state saves a ton of money.

    Tie them to a post, give them a few lashes, and be done with it. The humiliation of being scourged while in front of one's peers should serve as a lesson.

    Of course murderers and rapists should be put in jail. They're too dangerous to let back into society. I'm just talking about burglars and robbers. Burglars and robbers go to jail for a few years, and they often become further corrupted by the inmates.

    I'm also not suggesting that we give somebody 200 lashes for stealing a loaf of bread. Larceny is a misdemeanor in most states, and usually isn't even prosecuted. Stealing a certain value of goods, however, qualifies as a felony.

    Thoughts?

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  2. #2
    different_13's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    The flogged criminal learns his lesson
    Perhaps so, but what if it's someone stealing 'because they have to', to feed their family or whatever?
    Their circumstances are not going to change due to being flogged (well, maybe for the worse - they'll be even less likely to get hired for jobs, for one thing)

    the public sees it so they know who he is
    Who's gonna go watch? If you refer to putting it on tv too.. well, I see plenty of people on TV, but I certainly can't identify most of them.

    Wouldn't flogging them be quicker and cheaper?
    Probably. Until you take into account all the legal hassle involved (breach of human rights, the litigation for "mental suffering"..)
    Oh, and let's face it - racism or some other kind of discrimination is gonna be called. Not to mention the fact it's a bit untactful to whip people in a country with a big history of slavery (I know everywhere's had slavery, I'm just saying things related to it are a touchy subject..)


    Then of course there's the moral question..
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Go ahead. I fully support this.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Im more pro-100X floggings than 50 years of prison as punishment.

    I believe lashes are especially more effective for rapists because the pain in their back will be good reminder everytime some evil thought gets into their head. On the other hand, the punishment for murderers should be death.
    Last edited by jankren; October 09, 2007 at 05:00 PM.


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  5. #5
    Justice and Mercy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Putting the punishment into the daily lives of the people would undoubtedly serve as a deterrent.

    It's simply a question of what you want. You could have more effective detterence if a... darker society. Or you could have little detterence with a brighter-on-the-surface society. I'm not one for aesthetics.
    Last edited by Justice and Mercy; October 09, 2007 at 05:03 PM.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

  6. #6

    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Severe 'instant punishment' are proven to be very effective deterrence. Just go to Saudi Arabia to see the evidence with your own eyes.


    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig

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    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by different_13 View Post
    Perhaps so, but what if it's someone stealing 'because they have to', to feed their family or whatever?
    Their circumstances are not going to change due to being flogged (well, maybe for the worse - they'll be even less likely to get hired for jobs, for one thing).
    Like I said, people shouldn't be flogged for petty theft/larceny. I'm talking about most actions that would be classified as felonies. Singapore has flogging, and they do just fine.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by IronBrig4 View Post
    Like I said, people shouldn't be flogged for petty theft/larceny. I'm talking about most actions that would be classified as felonies. Singapore has flogging, and they do just fine.
    Robbery, theft, arson would be suitable for flogging I suppose. Personally I think we should bring back the death penalty, but only for murder/rape and above.


  9. #9
    Justice and Mercy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Of course, I think the idea of "beyond reasonable doubt" needs to be taken FAR more seriously.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

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    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    I am pro-flogging, very much so.

  11. #11
    Domesticus
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    I don't believe that punishment affects human behaviour. We don't learn to stop doing something because of punishment, we learn to avoid punishment. Prisons should only be used to seperate dangerous induviduals, not to punish.

    Public torture and humiliation is something I would not want the state doing.

    I am pro-flogging, very much so.
    This'll probably be the next issue in the Republican debates.
    Last edited by Princeps; October 10, 2007 at 12:39 PM.

  12. #12
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Princeps View Post
    I don't believe that punishment affects human behaviour. We don't learn to stop doing something because of punishment, we learn to avoid punishment. Prisons should only be used to seperate dangerous induviduals, not to punish.

    Public torture and humiliation is something I would not want the state doing.



    This'll probably be the next issue in the Republican debates.
    Understand that I see a difference between punishment and torture, though.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    I fully agree with you it would be very effective nut the UN and Amnesty and such organisations would complain as hell.
    These fine gentlemen's have thanks to their consistent idiotic posts have earned their place on my ignore list: mrmouth, The Illusionist, motiv-8, mongrel, azoth, thorn777 and elfdude. If you want to join their honourable rank you just have to post idiotic posts and you will get there in no time.

  14. #14
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by molonthegreat View Post
    I fully agree with you it would be very effective nut the UN and Amnesty and such organisations would complain as hell.
    Let them. I'm sick of the ******* UN complaining about what we do.

    Hey, if it wasn't for us, you guys would never hold together, so shut your ******* mouth.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    Let them. I'm sick of the ******* UN complaining about what we do.

    Hey, if it wasn't for us, you guys would never hold together, so shut your ******* mouth.
    UN is useless 5 members with veto(who quite often wants different things) complains about how other nations are ruled and they also decide whats right and wrong by their standards.
    These fine gentlemen's have thanks to their consistent idiotic posts have earned their place on my ignore list: mrmouth, The Illusionist, motiv-8, mongrel, azoth, thorn777 and elfdude. If you want to join their honourable rank you just have to post idiotic posts and you will get there in no time.

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    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by molonthegreat View Post
    I fully agree with you it would be very effective nut the UN and Amnesty and such organisations would complain as hell.
    The UN probably wouldn't mind too much. Remember that corporal punishment is fairly common outside of Western Europe and the US. They also don't complain about Singapore's caning.

    It seems that Americans seem to be the most dead set against flogging. Remember Michael Fay? That punk kid was an American living in Singapore, and he committed acts of vandalism. The Singaporeans caned him, and there was outrage in America. "How can you do this to one of our citizens? This is so barbaric!" etc.

    Once the commotions died down and people realized that Fay deserved it, they actually started agreeing with Singapore. In fact, two American politicians actually proposed the re-introduction of flogging.

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  17. #17
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by IronBrig4 View Post
    The UN probably wouldn't mind too much. Remember that corporal punishment is fairly common outside of Western Europe and the US. They also don't complain about Singapore's caning.
    Well they seem to dick around with our prison sentences enough.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    its odd, that i don't support the death penalty, or castration, but i'm not so much against this... i suppose its because you can't really suitably compensate or undo those punishments, whereas you can for this, if you get it wrong.


    if its a choice between prison and flogging as punishment, i'd say flogging everytime. Prison is brilliant, absolutely brilliant, for one thing only. Incarceration. Its perfect for keeping out of society for long periods of time the violent sexual and fatal offenders. As a punishment, there's deprivation of liberty, but its not such a major thing. A lot of short term offenders bounce into and out of prison so much it obviously doesn't mean much to them. Pain as an object lesson on the other can potentially be very effective.

    If we work on the assumption that various types of thieves, and those guilty of lesser assaults, shouldn't be in prison, what does that leave us? Fines, Community Orders, or this...

    Whats best... depends on your point of view really.

    All things in the balance though, this would surely have a greater deterrent value than a fin would, its public physical and painful punishment.


    Its also somewhat barbaric, and very cruel. Society, during the late victorian period really, moved away from these older cruder forms of punishment in favour of more humane forms of punishment (if Victorian prisons could ever be called humane). I've always been curious as to why... if it was nothing more than some sort of feeling that these punishments were barbaric.... then yes, bring them back.

  19. #19
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    I don't know, prison should be a place you're scared crapless to go to.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Was public flogging really such a bad thing?

    if i was going to an american prison, i would be, i've heard stories!!

    lol

    Certainly, for well to do people, i imagine british prisons are pretty bad as well... but for some of the people that end up there, prison facilities, with their regular routines, food and board provided, safety and security, represent a better standard of living than if they had to fend for themselves.

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