Portugal - Faction Thread.

[zedestroyer]

The other guy asked me to pick up an atlas when I questioned him, as if I had stated that you had colonies there.

I never said we had colonies in North America. I said we had colonies in South America, that's why I showed you the maps, now please stop arguing about that mistake.

[Ludicus]

Stop arguing

Good idea.

Let´s talk about Portugal and her history. And the game, of course.

Portugal in the year 1700:

1 - In fact at the start of the game (1700) they have the second largest overseas Empire ( in 1700, the first was Spanish Empire)
At the end of the game, circa 1815, still the second largest overseas Empire (in 1815,the first was the British Empire)

In the game they are in the list of the minor nations.

2 -In fact at the start of the game Portugal had control over Brazilian commerce.
In this game there is a Brazilian trade zone, a playground for the Major nations, and I presume, it doesn´t belong to Portugal (at least at the start of the game)
So, this is intriguing...!

[numerosdecimus]

Good idea.

Let´s talk about Portugal and her history. And the game, of course.

Portugal in the year 1700:

1 - In fact at the start of the game they have the second largest overseas Empire (the first was Spain)
In the game they are in the list of the minor nations.

2 -In fact at the start of the game Portugal had control over Brazilian commerce.
In this game there is a Brazilian trade zone, a playground for the Major nations, and I presume, it doesn´t belong to Portugal (at least at the start of the game)
So, this is intriguing...!

To a large extent, this decision is historically irrational. Including the colony itself because of it's wealth, but not the colonizing power leaves a lot of questions to be answered despite the "gameplay" claims.

I should also add that the Portuguese and Dutch empires were the ones with the greatest economical impact worldwide during the 18th century, this alone provides these two empire reason enough to be among the main powers.

As for the agressive discussions in this thread, please keep it civil. However, argumenting about wether Portugal was important enough or not during the 18th century shouldn't even be a topic of discussion.

[Ludicus]

To a large extent, this decision is historically irrational. Including the colony itself because of it's wealth, but not the colonizing power leaves a lot of questions to be answered despite the "gameplay" claims.

Well said.
I haven´t see you for a long time
Welcome back,numerosdecimus!

[Nicholas H.C]

I think Portugal will be in, but it will be a minor faction

[Sparkshot]

Jack Lusted said the demo was out of date so don't get too excited:

The files found in the demo show the map as it was early last year, but we later cut down the number of provinces. The files found in the demo are just left overs from then.

Anyway, from what I can see, Portugal gets one territory in India:

[Ludicus]

so don't get too excited:

what about?

The Brazilian coast is in the game - represented as a trade theatre, and playground for the Major powers.

[Falcon_12]

Good idea.

Let´s talk about Portugal and her history. And the game, of course.

Portugal in the year 1700:

1 - In fact at the start of the game (1700) they have the second largest overseas Empire ( in 1700, the first was Spanish Empire)
At the end of the game, circa 1815, still the second largest overseas Empire (in 1815,the first was the British Empire)

In the game they are in the list of the minor nations.

2 -In fact at the start of the game Portugal had control over Brazilian commerce.
In this game there is a Brazilian trade zone, a playground for the Major nations, and I presume, it doesn´t belong to Portugal (at least at the start of the game)
So, this is intriguing...!

Yeah, dispite the fact that brazil alone had more population than North America in 1700, it is represented as a no mans land and probably, its trade routes will be empty with no portuguese control!

It makes as much sence as France beggining the game with Britain, yet, youre not gonna see no one except us ports complain about it.

[zedestroyer]

Jack Lusted said the demo was out of date so don't get too excited:


Anyway, from what I can see, Portugal gets one territory in India:

That's nice, CA eliminated our greatest colony and one of the most important commercial areas of the world, maintaining some resources to be explored by the British.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In return we get 1 of several of our provinces in India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_India

[Sparkshot]

what about?

The Brazilian coast is in the game - represented as a trade theatre, and playground for the Major powers.

TheGodFather said he saw many historically Portuguese provinces or what have you in the demo files. However, they might not all be there now so others shouldn't get their hopes considering Jack Lusted stated, which I wrote in my previous post, that it was from an older build that carried into the demo.

[Ludicus]

TheGodFather said he saw many historically Portuguese provinces

Not at all.
He saw a list of actual countries, some of them are former Portuguese colonies

Brazil coastline, somehow extensively, is represented in the game with (four?) local trade theatres.
Post 310.

[TheGodfather]

This trade theaters are a complete joke in my opinion, Brasil is only 4 points xD where you can put your navy on, they are spending so much time having a correct history of the american independence, and they forget the others country completely, it would be nice that the game had no sells in USA, just to stop this unfairness xD

they cant even spell corectly the portuguese colonies and units lol

[Dom João]

I wouldn't say the american independence version in ETW will be the correct one since they get to be playable/unlockable in 1700. But the game is finished (since those who went to SEGA's Community Event played the final version) and there's nothing we can do about it but to stand and watch Brazil's potential stolen by "Major Factions" (this one will turn to be a classic in TW games ).

Still I hope in a forthcoming expansion where all trade theaters will turn into provinces and thus justice will be made for Portugal (and the other unlockables).

[Lebre]

well i read somewhere that they had to rush up things and because of that they cut brazil and africa so lets see in a future expansion if they really meant to do that...

[Sher Khan]

Please keep all discussion relevant to Portugal and E:TW, rather than discussion on other posters.

[Falcon_12]

Ludicus, ya got something on portugals navy and army during this period?

Id like to hear about what we did in the spanish sucession war and such.

Thanks

[Ludicus]

Posts 36, 37, 38, 66, 76, 78, 79 (Portugal´s navy; Spanish Succession War)
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brazil alone had more population than North America in 1700

Yes.
In Brazil, by 1700, the European population was estimated at 300,000 people and the North America population was estimated about 250,000.

By 1776, Brasil was the most populated colony in Americas:

“After the settlements of the Spaniards, that of the Portuguese in Brazil is the oldest of any European nation in America. But as for a long time after the first discovery neither gold nor silver mines were found in it, and as it afforded, upon that account, little or no revenue to the crown, it was for a long time in a great measure neglected; and during this state of neglect it grew up to be a great and powerful colony…….. No one colony in America is supposed to contain so great a number of people of European extraction.”
Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature And Causes of the Wealth of nations.

Brazil received more European immigrants in its colonial era than did the United States of America.
Between 1500 and 1760, 700,000 Europeans settled in Brazil, compared to 530,000 in the United States.

However, we should not forget that all the 13 colonies experienced a population boom. Britain’s 13 North American colonies experienced an extraordinary rate of population growth. In 1700 the population was about 250,000; seven decades later there were about 2,500,000 inhabitants, a tenfold increase. This phenomenal growth was a prerequisite for a successful independence movement. In 1700 there were 20 people in Britain for every American colonist; by 1775 this ratio had fallen to 3 to 1.

The Portuguese Atlantic and Portuguese America were scenes of mass migration in a succession of waves from the mid- 1690´s onwards: initially to Minas Gerais, then to Mato Grosso, and Goiás in 1725, as well as to other areas to the interior in Bahia in 1727. Portuguese from Portugal, the Atlantic Islands, and the coastal regions of Brazil converged on the mining areas, creating “instant” demographic nuclei.
In addition to large numbers of migrants arriving by sea during this period, there was concurrently a massive internal migration by river and overland. This applied not only to to persons of Portuguese birth but also to persons of African birth and descent in an internal interregional slave trade attributable to the demand for labor in the extractive industries and opportunities for agricultural ventures with the emergence of new markets.
Forced relocations of Indians, 18th century: In 1750 there was a total of 63 mission villages administered by all religious orders with an Indian population estimated at 50,000.
From West Africa to Brazil: the basic facts are that during the 320 years of trade from W. Africa to Brazil somewhere between 3.5 and 5 million slaves entered Brazil, comprising 38% of the total trade from West Africa to Europe, the Caribbean, and the American continent.

Sources:
1- short summary from previous posts.
2- Sources:
Patterns of Settlement 1400-1800, Portuguese Oceanic Expansion, 1400- 1800 Flux and Reflux of people, Migrants and Settlers, The Portuguese Empire, 1415-1808, A World on the move
A.J.Russel-Wood.

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Still I hope in a forthcoming expansion where all trade theaters will turn into provinces

Indeed. I completely agree. However, Brasil wasn´t a trade theatre,it was a Portuguese colony.
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Today´s favorite quote, from the Spanish Forum:
"oh, and... ''historical research centre...''seems obvious u will find people complaining here about the historical accuracy of the game, doesnt it?"

[Falcon_12]

Thanks Ludicus. I read it all

[Lusitani]

I think the point is although CA had done a great job in the TW series it sometimes sacrifices history in favour of gameplay, which is understandable to a degree. But in a title called Empire Total War deliberately excluding one of the biggest and the 1st Global Empire has became quite a dissapointment to, at least, the portuguese fans.

Although we ( Portuguese) are used to see our own country disregarded as a somewhat foggy area in what comes to this sort of games and our History in general, it is quite upsetting to see a different of treatment regarding our complaints not only by CA but also from other "forumites". I dont think any of the portuguese members is being over nationalist about this...actually as much as any member who would see its heritage being ignored.

Portugal was a major player during this century at all levels, even militarily considering how scarce its human resources always were and we are not happy about the gameplay choices of "Fish 'n' Chips Total War"...pardon me... "Empire" Total War.

V.

[DarkMagi]

Portugal was a major player during this century at all levels, even militarily considering how scarce its human resources always were and we are not happy about the gameplay choices of "Fish 'n' Chips Total War"...pardon me... "Empire" Total War.

V.

hahaha

I couldn't agree more in what you said.

Its unbelievable. But its common. The ignorance affects us all. So little knows how great was the Portuguese Empire, and almost none gives it value.
In these moments I wish we were billions. But in the other hand, our history would be crap