Why are Pila so weak?

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I've discussed this before, yet again I ask: why are Roman pila weaker than other javelins? Most Iberian and Gallic units get 5 to 7 Missile attack, while Pila still only get 4. I know, they have the AP feature, but imagine a wave of heavy spears being thrown at a compact enemy line... Surely the damage will be much larger than the one I get in EB. Usually, just 5 or 4 people die, but the pila are very strong, well able to pierce shield, then armour, with enough strength to kill a man. I'm affraid EB takes this too lightly, and pila should be made stronger than the other javelins in the game.

To what measure, I suggest 6 to 11, or even more. This can be discussed.

[Davidus Pertinax]

maybe its a balance issue, roman units are very powerful

[Victor1234]

Probably the balancing issue, but besides that, is a difference of 1 really that much? Putting it up to 11 is just ridiculous, considering how strong Roman units are already.

Moreover, one could argue that the Iberians and Gauls (relying on ambushes, hunting with javelins) would be more suited to using missles as a secondary weapon than the Romans, who traditionally excelled at close combat. Sure, the pila were there, they trained with them, but they certainly hadn't been using them every day since the age of 11 or 12 in hunting, which makes a big difference.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

For one thing, the pila wasn't really a weapon designed to kill. Its main advantage of other throwing spears was to pierce shields and get stuck.

Also, Roman legions should have two different types of pila. A light, long range one and a heavy, short range one. The stats are an average between the two types.

(Not official answer.)

[Sidus Preclarum]

For one thing, the pila wasn't really a weapon designed to kill. Its main advantage of other throwing spears was to pierce shields and get stuck.

yes, but since this can't be modeled in the game (afaik), this is a non-argument...

[Foot]

yes, but since this can't be modeled in the game (afaik), this is a non-argument...

So we should make them really, really deadly?

Its a difficulty, we've gone one way, others have gone another. We are entirely happy with our pila.

Foot

[Sidus Preclarum]

So we should make them really, really deadly?

I mean, that since they should have an effect that can't be modded in, it should be compensated by other means...
that said, I don't really have anything against the pila in EB personnally, just noting that MCM argument really wasn't one.

[mcantu]

I mean, that since they should have an effect that can't be modded in, it should be compensated by other means...
that said, I don't really have anything against the pila in EB personnally, just noting that MCM argument really wasn't one.

The compensation is making them AP...

You know, you can make the EDU changes yourself to get it how you like. I do that

[eelorriaga]

like marcus said,i think they can´t crush shields but ,they were built to double on inpact ,so if they hit the shield they will make it more heavy and dificult to block with it,surely lighter shield´s like bucklers would be more afected by this.unfortunatly this cant not be done with the game engine i think

[Paul d]

well they're powerful enough so that the enemy is easier to kill in melee so I'm not complaining.

IMO I think that ALL missile weapons need to be 1 to 2 points stronger, but your call.

[mcantu]

One other thing to take into account is that the shield value is doubled against missile attacks from the front

[sirfiggin]

could the pila cause a penalty for the shield stats or stamina? this would simulate the "break the charge" role they were used for. Also, can more special formations be used, cos the legions could do squares and arrow heads and "horns" and stuff.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

could the pila cause a penalty for the shield stats or stamina? this would simulate the "break the charge" role they were used for. Also, can more special formations be used, cos the legions could do squares and arrow heads and "horns" and stuff.

Unfortuately, no. Hardcoding.
Formations are limited to what RTW already has. Plus, each unit can only have one special formation. Marian and Imperial legionaries already have 'tustudo' formation.

[chomskola]

Im happy with pila being weak, in fact t grates on my nerves when i send in actual skirmishers to javelin heavy infantry...the normal infantry seem to be well able to out skirmish the skirmishers, for one, skirmishers even fast moving infantry ones cant get in range and out of reach of heavy infantry quick enough..anyone else have this problem??? (you have to get on a hill it seems or flank someone to really pepper them)

[Bearhugger]

i just wondered, is it possible to make a pilum hit drain the shield value of the target soldier? would be realistic - simulating the pilum being stuck in the shield....

[ZinedineZidane]

i think the pila SHOULD be made stronger, in fact i think virtually all the roman heavy infantry are inferior to a lot of units, especially the elite phalanxes, they have no advantage in attack nor numbers or even DEFENCE, i think maybe this should be addressed really

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

i just wondered, is it possible to make a pilum hit drain the shield value of the target soldier? would be realistic - simulating the pilum being stuck in the shield....

Unfortunately, no. Hardcoded. The only thing attacks can do is take away hitpoints.

i think the pila SHOULD be made stronger, in fact i think virtually all the roman heavy infantry are inferior to a lot of units, especially the elite phalanxes, they have no advantage in attack nor numbers or even DEFENCE, i think maybe this should be addressed really

Stats are made using a system. The stats represent the comparitive abilities of the Roman weapons and armor. Romans didn't necessarily do well because each of their soldiers was a comparitively great soldier.

[Zaknafien]

historically, pila volleys did considerable damage against unarmored foes like the gauls at telamon, etc. But against most of Rome's opponents in organized armies they were not very effective at all. As others have said, its a balance.