roman units vs everyone else

[ZinedineZidane]

first of all, i noticed, in custom battle anyways, that roman armour is INFERIOR to greek armour, and im talking about their cohorts and also everything else really, roman units seem underpowered to me, one on one a barbarian unit could own any of my units, and i have some questions, why do the principes have spears and some other spearunits hold their spears overhanded?my triarri and other units that hold it overhanded always seem to get owned =(

[Foot]

Well its a bit difficult to answer if you don't tell us what you are comparing. I mean, if you are comparing the thorakitai vs Hastati then of course there is going to be a difference.

The Principes have spears because in the Camillian Era thats what they had (though of course this is making huge generalisations).

The Early Triarii hold their spears overhand because they fight in the hoplitai style. Turn the guard mode on for hoplitai units to get the best out of them.

Foot

[eggthief]

one on one a barbarian unit could own any of my units

really? in my Swebos campaign I just got attacked by the romans and whatever I use against them has no use, even with those germanic swordsmen and haarri units I will still need a lot of luck and they're still using camillian and samnites, cant wait till they get to their next reform.

[ZinedineZidane]

oh sorry, im talking about like err one of my principes or hastati against like a celtic heavy swordsmen or something, his stat is like 10 atk and 22 def? and the biggest question really is why do the greek phalanx units like the epirote elite phalanx have more armour then the post marion imperial legion cohort?

edit- and its not even by like 1 its by like 7 =/ and i recall it has more attack too

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Well, the Ch... Agema (elite phalanx) accendentally had too much armour. It will be reduced in the next release.

[Foot]

Are you playing on medium battle difficulty. Anything else just messes up the stats.

Foot

[ZinedineZidane]

yea i just figured out my problem sort of but the units are unbalanced, like the freaking samnite warrior guy with 10 atk and like 30 def is better then the legionary cohort =/ and a bunch of other things

[Foot]

yea i just figured out my problem sort of but the units are unbalanced, like the freaking samnite warrior guy with 10 atk and like 30 def is better then the legionary cohort =/ and a bunch of other things

No the units aren't unbalanced. We don't make things up. In fact what we have is a very complex system for applying armour, shield, defense, attack, lethality etc points to a unit. Whatever you think a legionary cohort should get means nothing unless you either have our stat system on hand and we've added it up wrong, or you are an expert on the arms and armour of the roman military and are also experienced with the skill and morale of the roman soldiers throughout our period.

Foot

[MathiasOfAthens]

Yea well my Roman polybian army is owning the sweboz in Gaul. My Legions are only comprised of 4 cavalry units and about 10 Principles and 2-3 accensi. Also a General or two. While the barbarians have hundreds of guys and each one of their units overpowers my units in manpower alone. Point is its all about tactics when fighting battles.

yea i just figured out my problem sort of but the units are unbalanced, like the freaking samnite warrior guy with 10 atk and like 30 def is better then the legionary cohort =/ and a bunch of other things

The thing with the samnites is that during the socii wars Rome only defeated the Samnites because at the time they were if not so united but could only field little resistance to Roma and her allies. While the samnites were strong warriors they were in too little number to effectively halt Roman expansion upon Latium and Italia.

[ZinedineZidane]

well by legionary cohort im talking about IMPERIAL cohort, so its kinda bogus that the samnites are stronger then the imperial cohorts, in fact i see a lot of units that are better then the imperial cohorts, then again this map isn't finished but i just want to point this stuff out

[Watchman]

What, is it necessary to have better units than your enemy to conquer or something ? News to me...

Plus there's also the detail the bog-standard Cohort is just that - Rank And File. Highly disciplined and well (but not, note, exceptionally) trained and equipped rank and file maybe, but still grunts; the Samnitici Milites are elites...

But as grunts go, aren't they about the top ?

[mcantu]

Where are you getting those numbers from? My EDU shows Samnite Swordmen have 10 Attack; 9 Armor; 9 Defense. The Legionary Cohort has 12 Attack; 10 Armor; 9 Defense

[ZinedineZidane]

ok to make it specific units like the pedites extraordinarii are more expensive and better then the imperial cohorts, and i even tried fighting them against each other and the imperial cohorts got owned, i dunno if i have a different file or not but i just went to the eb site to dl this and all it said was dl 0.81 or w/e

[mcantu]

Ok, Pedites Extraordinarii have 10 Attack (AP); 12 Armor; 9 Defense; 3 Shied. Legionary Cohorts have 12 Attack; 12 Armor; 9 Defense; 4 Shield. Both have the same morale

[ZinedineZidane]

ok i found the direct comparison now, i noticed that the early legionary cohort has 12 atk 23 def and 4 missle, the camillian triarri has 10 atk and 25 def and the polybian triarrii has 10 atk and 24 def, and the samnite heavy infantry have 10? atk 28 def and 6 missle i believe, and the late legionary cohort has 12 atk 25 def and 4 missle i think, the big problem is the difference between the legionarries and those samnite heavy infantry, and its kind of disappointing to see little change in stats from the camillian to the imperial cohorts, these heavy infantry conquered the world ya know?

edit- sorry if im being annoying about all this, but i guess im just used to seeeing roman heavy infantry the best in all the games and kinda confused why its not in this game, and by all the other games im talking about rtr, only mod ive played besides this

[Watchman]

The Romans didn't take over the world because their grunts were supersoldiers. They took it over because they devised a way to keep delivering solid, dependable, disciplined, well-equipped armies to the field beyond their enemies' ability to keep pace, and by sound tactics and (later) military professionalism.

Put this way: the average Roman grunt may not have been as good a fighter as an elite "barbarian" warrior - but there were a lot more of them than the enemy elites, and all of them had war gear equal to the best equipped troops of most of their enemies.

[ZinedineZidane]

ok well can someone explain to me why samnite heavy infantry are stronger than imperial cohorts?

[Watchman]

...'cause they're from the elite end ? There's of course the little detail the Samnites' swords are AP but their javelins aren't, while the Romans' pila are AP but their swords aren't.

[stu3216]

okay zinedine... theirs more to the unit then what the game shows in a units atributes. the imperial coharts will also stay in battle and not rout as fast as the samnites would... the coharts can use testudo and other good stuff like that. the whole attack and defence is misleading sometimes. look at the unit script. if you want go ahead and do what ever the heck you want
but really this is pretty dang realistic if i may say. roman infantry was flexable and unbeatable nearly... ofcourse thats cus they had goood generals and were doing what they were trained to doo.

[Locky]

first of all, i noticed, in custom battle anyways, that roman armour is INFERIOR to greek armour, and im talking about their cohorts and also everything else really, roman units seem underpowered to me, one on one a barbarian unit could own any of my units, and i have some questions, why do the principes have spears and some other spearunits hold their spears overhanded?my triarri and other units that hold it overhanded always seem to get owned =(

Because Romanoi soldiers aren't even comparable to the elites of other nations.

The Roman legionaries were not super soldiers and never were, regardless of era. It seems to be a common mind set that Roman infantry was the best. Complete rubbish. There was much better foot infantry in existence, they just didn't exist in large numbers.

EB has the best balanced faction soldiers. And doesn't suffer from Roman super soldier bias, like others.