Das Heilige Römische Reich - Suggestions

**vonckenLOTR** · October 31, 2011, 09:45 AM

damn

**Young Rex** · November 15, 2011, 01:42 PM

The ability to make Emperor the Vicar of Christ stealing relgious power away from the pope. In turn restoring the power of Emperor to it former glory.

**slaneslau** · November 16, 2011, 01:05 PM

i always wondered about THAT WHEN 1 STEALS ANOTHER 1S POWER means all power has a limit then in reality but why is there never enough to go around for everybody? silly isnt it

**Post Hoc** · November 16, 2011, 06:21 PM

More unit variety

**Scipio praeditus** · November 16, 2011, 09:49 PM

The Pope's authority was not something that could be stolen by declaring to have taken it, for a HRE Emperor such a declaration would have equalled declaring oneself to be the Antichrist (and asking for the Pope to declare him as such).

Such a move could only have had any chance of succes if that Emperor or his predecessors had succeeded in subjugating at least all of Itally, France and Greece before declaring themselves "Vicar of Christ", otherwise "counterpopes" would keep popping up from those territories uniting the whole of Christianity against them.

If they had taken half of Europe (however unlikely that may be), they could even have tried to return to the true Heathen origins of Christianity.

So it would be a nice roleplaying element to be implemented once the game is over, but nothing more.

**Young Rex** · November 17, 2011, 03:02 PM

Byzantine Emperor get rock all this Caezaropapism power, since The Holy Roman Emperor claim to susccessor to rome, Where Roman Emperor was hightest Priest. Why can't we claim the Vicar of Christ?

**Scipio praeditus** · November 17, 2011, 05:59 PM

I forgot to mention the many opportunistic Lords and Clergy that would have revolted and thrown the lands into turmoil.

Another important fact to consider is that most of the Holy Roman Emperors where no Expansionists, they where merely trying to keep the status quo in their lands, and that was hard enough.
The many Italian expeditions where only undertaken in order to retain the much needed income of the North-Italian cities, and to retain the Imperial authority (which required a crowning by the Pope in Rome).

By this time the Holy Roman Emperors could not hope to muster all the German forces as one force to advance their goals, they had rivals everywhere (most of them in their own lands).

The North-Italian income and the Imperial authority where vital for them to be able to compete with the German Lords, whilst keeping the neighbouring nations at bay.
Without these means Germany would most likely have broken appart and been divided between France, Poland and Bohemia as vassal states.

Any notion of a greater Holy Roman Empire was merely idle fantasy in the minds of some few Emperors by this time.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for history to have been different, but that's the way it is.
Modern history is a lot more disappointing...

**slaneslau** · November 17, 2011, 08:49 PM

Im Amazed al lthe blood split because of this! History is so Dark and disturbing

**slaneslau** · November 17, 2011, 08:52 PM

Im amazed by all this.History is so dark and disturbing I dont think there was nothing Holy about the Holy Roman Empire but it still inspires me!

**Young Rex** · November 18, 2011, 12:08 PM

So not going all roman Emperor/ Germanic Kings way of then being highest Priest, damn well maybe as add in at somepoint, can go back father play Otto III.

**Young Rex** · November 20, 2011, 12:03 PM

Would asking to much if could start as Ritter, and try get into service of Lord?

**vonckenLOTR** · November 28, 2011, 12:03 PM

to get back to where the thread was made for: I think that it must be able to choose none of the 2 sides(emperor/pope) at start. because i like to have a small country i can build up. with a small family tree. not to much to ask, i think?

in place of piety, you can set obedience. sort of piety, but still....
and in place of priests, messengers. messengers will convert other places to like your country. if they like you for 80% or more, they join you. if your own country's lands are beneath 15%. they rebel etc.

possible?

**HannibalExMachina** · November 28, 2011, 01:20 PM

there will be many such factions not involved in the civil war, like anjou or blois.

**John6** · December 11, 2011, 07:09 AM

Some pagan priests and more religious buildings for the Pagan factions would be pretty awesome

**vonckenLOTR** · December 12, 2011, 08:53 AM

another suggestion: Download link. or at least a progress tread. like in green whats done, yellow busy, red, not yet:

Anjou: DONE
scripting: DONE
etc. : DONE

Blois: Busy
Scripting: Busy
Etc. : not started

etc.(you get the point)

**Shmotz** · March 20, 2012, 01:10 PM

I'll just start by saying your mod is really great

I don't know if it's been said or reported before (I didn't have the courage to read all the comments...) but your rendition of the Duchy of Upper Lorraine is faulty. It's only a detail on the scale of the mod itself but the capital city of the Duchy was Nancy, not Metz. While Metz was by far the biggest and wealthiest city of Lorraine Nancy was the seat of the dukes, and even nowadays some sort of rivalry remains between the two cities as to which one is the true capital of Lorraine (the economical one or the political one, before the annexion by France). Still, keep up the good work!

**mof** · June 01, 2012, 03:49 AM

I played .8a beta as Sweden and won in 88 turns or so.

I've played MTW2 for many years but have never had the chance to play Sweden

so I just had to try it.

Btw, like some others that have played Sweden, I made some changes to the starting position. Blotsven was put in Uppsala as a rebel, and Inge ruled from Skara. A "correct" family tree was made, and also bishops of Skara and Linköping. Some regions got there starting pop and buildings changed and some units were unlocked for Sweden.

Here are some suggestions and thoughts.

Like others I found that the game is much too easy when Le Mans and all of western France is rebel. While crusading, my gothic forces blitzed all the neutral regions there, and many of those in Italy. So, those areas must be filled up with factions.

Since there is a max amount of possible factions some will have to be removed then. The Iberian factions and the Moors were not greatly involved in the politics of the empire, so remove all four of them and all of the regions there and in Africa. Scotland did not take part in much of the quarrels of the empire, so remove Scotland and remove a number of the regions there too. England can have its most northern town in York and western in Chester, with no new land to conquer in that direction. Sweden can be removed, even though it was at least somewhat active around the Baltic. Russia and the Cumans can also be removed, together with all the regions of the north and the east.

Removing eight factions should provide plenty of room to add many different duchies and counties that will make it more difficult to just walk all over the map.

Crusades: there should be no neutral target. A neutral target means it is enough to send one young general to the city. You then besiege it right through to the end of the game. In that way your armies will have practically no upkeep at all. So, the cities of Outremer should be defended by a very strong muslim faction, a faction that is not really meant to be played, but that exists to make the game more challenging for other factions.

Crusades and Jihads are funny but so very easy to exploit. It is like that in the vanilla version too, and in many of the mods.

Army upkeep has to be a lot higher. I think I had over 150 generals when the game ended, and they didn't cost me anything. That's not feudalism. They should cost something like 500-1000 per turn, not that it matters all that much as long as the crusades are like they are and you have a huge amount of crusading generals. Cities should not have so many spots for free upkeep, instead one can lower the upkeep of some garrison units.

Rebel cities must have a lot more cav in them. As it is now they are much too easy to conquer. Two generals is enough to take all of the cities in Scandinavia, and the same goes for the cities in Ireland. For other cities you have to outnumber the defending cav somewhat, since it is often of a better quality, but it is usually not a problem to build a stack of 8 generals or so, which is enough to take most cities, except perhaps for cities in Outremer and Anatolia. I saw that they have more cavalry, but only ever used autobattle there.

The cavalry should be less dominant, even though this was no golden age for infantry.

**vonckenLOTR** · June 01, 2012, 01:40 PM

i can't tell you everything, but i can tell you that in 0.9 many of your suggestions will be used. the iberian factions, russia, the cumans, sweden and the orient will be deleted. france will be divided in the way like we devided germany. some of them are: Blois, Toulouse and Bretagne. because all arabian and east european countries are gone (except 1 faction), there will be no crusades. but u could know all this if you read the previews(inclding new map etc.)