PRO DEO ET REGE: THE GREAT SELJUQ EMPIRE

[Socal_infidel]

AZERBAYJANI HEAVY SPEARMEN: Fighting for their new masters, the Great Seljuks, these fearsome soldiers make excellent heavy infantry.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[AlphaDelta]

Apologies for my reactionary comment.

[♔ST0MPA♔]

Beyond a joke.

what is that comment all about. edit. never mind read ya post in CILICIAN ARMENIA

They look very good the best yet

[Son of Mao]

These look really good but kind of like BC's....

[Socal_infidel]

These look really good but kind of like BC's....

Yes, there were some similarities and I looked to AD's work for some inspiration. Regardless, I acknowledge that I owe a great deal of debt to the BC team for their hard work and research in this area of the map.

[Tadzreuli]

this Azeris units are so amazing !

[Zephrelial]

AZERBAYJANI HEAVY SPEARMEN: Fighting for their new masters, the Great Seljuks, these fearsome soldiers make excellent heavy infantry.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Genio! Genio! Genio! Simply brilliant +rep for those

To some other posters.. Are you guys serious? And to the poster that says the unit looks like in BC.. Supposing it looks like the ones in BC,so what? Are you implying that Social Infidel is copying from BC? Does it change the fact that this unit is marvellously crafted?

This man obviously got the skill for that why some people have to make these kinds of remarks,I don't understand.

AlphaDelta I haven't understood what exactly you meant by posting "Beyond a joke" may I ask? Were you being sarcastic?

[AlphaDelta]

AlphaDelta I haven't understood what exactly you meant by posting "Beyond a joke" may I ask? Were you being sarcastic?

Everything has been sorted between BC and Socal_infidel, but I will respond to this question.

AZERBAYJANI HEAVY SPEARMEN = A BC fabrication. Plain and simple, it was a concept developed by Ahiga our lead researcher from a set of text sources. Research has been a huge part of the work on BC and just as when a literary author uses a quote from another source he references the source, so a modder should reference the source of their unit or roster information.

The reason I said "beyond a joke" was that the level of imitation had got to a point where I felt I needed to say something. It was necessary for credit to be given to the author of the unit concept.

Socal_infidel has agreed to credit BC's research for any unit concept that is borrowed so everything is fine now.

Cheers

[Zephrelial]

Everything has been sorted between BC and Socal_infidel, but I will respond to this question.

AZERBAYJANI HEAVY SPEARMEN = A BC fabrication. Plain and simple, it was a concept developed by Ahiga our lead researcher from a set of text sources. Research has been a huge part of the work on BC and just as when a literary author uses a quote from another source he references the source, so a modder should reference the source of their unit or roster information.

The reason I said "beyond a joke" was that the level of imitation had got to a point where I felt I needed to say something. It was necessary for credit to be given to the author of the unit concept.

Socal_infidel has agreed to credit BC's research for any unit concept that is borrowed so everything is fine now.

Cheers

The points that I can not understand are these:

1-Have the BC artists tutored Social Infidel day or night for him to create this particular model?

2- Are the meshes of this particular model that Social Infidel had posted here in this thread are provided as the courtesy of the BC team?

Are you some sort of an authority in terms of modelling AD that is held over all the modders that is charged with examining their work; as to judge whether there is an imitation or not,and take it as far as to post in another modder's thread,and claim that it's an imitaition?

3- Is there a specific same unit in BC that looks like exactly this one?

If the answer to the questions I poised to numbers 1 and 2 is no..then I sincerely believe that BC can not be mentioned in the credits but the name should be mentioned in the thanks section (preferably)However if the BC team give the meshes to Social Infidel,BC should be mentioned in the credits.

And as a personal comment AD,your behaviour is somewhat strange.You are a great artist that had successfully practiced modelling but you feel obliged to impede the works of another modeller by posting a sarcastic remark on the topic that he's presenting his units... And then you say that it's "settled" between you and Social... Which I have no doubt is true..

Nevertheless this is not nice at all..Not nice.That's all I have to say and I'll say no more.I think you need to examine all the other models in Georgia thread(there are some very nice models there,too that can be claimed they are imitated from BC!) and post there some statement too,analyze whether they are imitated from BC..

Then again agree with Social and ask for credits of those models,too.. In fact while you are at it you should go on and request or demand (which suits your attitude) more that Social Infidel cease to work on any model on his mod from now on...

[AlphaDelta]

Why are you are talking about meshes and textures? You are going off on a tangent and talking about a subject that no one has raised. As the issues you raise don't concern me, they definitely don't concern you, and Social_infidel and the BC team have cleared up the actual point I raised, I have absolutely no reason to reply to your post.

I have cleared my inflamitory comment and I suggest you do the same to prevent your remarks being seen as what they clearly are; A failed attempt at starting a flame war. If you want to discuss the issue that I raised (and not the off-tangent issues you are raising) please feel free to contact me by private message to prevent further degredation of this thread.

Cheers

[Zephrelial]

Why are you are talking about meshes and textures? You are going off on a tangent and talking about a subject that no one has raised. As the issues you raise don't concern me, they definitely don't concern you, and Social_infidel and the BC team have cleared up the actual point I raised, I have absolutely no reason to reply to your post.

I have cleared my inflamitory comment and I suggest you do the same to prevent your remarks being seen as what they clearly are; A failed attempt at starting a flame war. If you want to discuss the issue that I raised (and not the off-tangent issues you are raising) please feel free to contact me by private message to prevent further degredation of this thread.

Cheers

Because what I have posted needed to have been posted.It doesn't matter whether it had been brought up by an another individual before myself or not.The motives behind certain actions must be exposed and not ecplipsed...

The reason I have indicated these points and questions especially about the meshes,is because that is the main criteria whether your demands of Social are justifiable or not.According to me it isn't justifiable since as I mentioned before Social is creating Seljuks and Georgia,and Armenia... He will use these factions in his mod..

Please answer this question honestly if you can and will AD:

What would your reaction be had, Social featured a Flandern faction,and had displayed the models of Knights(models done from scratch) and that had nothing to do with BC and the eastern theme?

Since you haven't bothered to show the courtesy of answering those questions I poised,I find it useful to remind that you have no right to ask or make pressure upon Social ;request or demand that Social mention is obliged to mention BC in the credits; since YOU haven't created that specific model... Anyone with a bit of commonsense will comprehend this.

However,as both parties have agreed then there is no purpose of me or you posting here.

I have no intention to start a flame war as you claim AD.. My sole intention was to express what was needed to be said that's all.I have nothing to discuss with you via pm..Since I clearly stated what I wanted to say in this particular thread But thanks for the offer.

Finally allow me to say a few words:

BC is a great mod.You are a great artist.You have putten a great effort into BC and is probably the first one to model mtw2.. Social has got the talent.. he created those meshes himself.. He is talented.

So I would expect from you to post something like:

" It's nice to see an another mod with some progress" like Mirage posted in the Dawn of Kingdoms sub-forum.

This would display that you were great in character as well as modelling and skinning.Unfortunately you are not.I think that concludes all I have to say...

[AlphaDelta]

I await your PM.

Cheers

[Socal_infidel]

Zephrelial -

I appreciate your attempt to "defend" me and my artistic rights, but really, as AD has mentioned, the matter is indeed settled. As AD explained, the problem lay in the Azeri unit, which was a rather unobvious choice for a unit and one that admittedly was borrowed from the BC team (albeit the look itelf was based on an Opsrey pic but that's beside the point).

The matter has been resolved and yes, the BC team and AD and Ahiga will get credit as it's really only fair that they should. I owe a great deal of debt to the collective effort to the BC Team and community for the research and materials needed in this area.

And it's really not called for to denigrate AD's character like you did. As A] outside these forums, you don't know the man and B] he has complimented my models over in the Georgia thread and even gave suggestions for improvement and C] he went out of the way to say the models themselves looked nice even as he took certain issue with their concept. A remark like that is never called for it seems and certainly not in a third-party forum.

Again, I appreciate your willingness to defend others. But in this case, it just wasn't needed as the "situation" has been resolved.

Good luck with your mod! And take care to enjoy your weekend!

Socal_infidel

[Miraj]

I just wanted to say keep up the great work Socal. You're on your way to creating one of the best mods for M2TW!

@Zeph
The BC team and PDER are like peas in a pod now, there is no issues between us and its been totally sorted out. We're all friends here.

[Zephrelial]

If you want to discuss the issue that I raised, please feel free to contact me by private message to prevent further degredation of this thread.

Cheers

While reading the post yesterday first I missed and later misunderstood that particular part.I should have pm'd him and requested from him to explain it to me.So Alpha,Social and Mirage sorry about that.

Besides the issue seemed and seems a bit complicated to me,so I don't need an explanation anymore.I believe you guys have already done what was necessary and sorted out between yourselves,as you also say..So I hope there aren't any problems left..

Also it's good to hear thay you guys are tight

[Boztorgai_Khan]

That NEW Banner / Flag is Cool..
But I'am for Real Historical.
the Real Great Seljuq Empire Banner is This:



Alleged flag of the Great Seljuk Empire

Official description: Founded by Selçuk Khan, bordering Balkash and Issyk lakes and Tarim Derya in the East, Aegean and the Mediterrenean shores in the West, Aral Lake, Caspian Sea, Caucasian and the Black Sea in the North and Arabia and Gulf of Oman in the South (total area 10,000,000 sq. km)

Additional information: This refers to the Seljuk Turks, a Muslim dynasty established in what is now eastern Turkey after about 1065 AD.

Flag: The alleged flag of the Great Seljuk Empire is blue with a white winged and double-headed silhouette and a black bow and arrow.

[Socal_infidel]

That NEW Banner / Flag is Cool..
But I'am for Real Historical.
the Real Great Seljuq Empire Banner is This:



Alleged flag of the Great Seljuk Empire

Official description: Founded by Selçuk Khan, bordering Balkash and Issyk lakes and Tarim Derya in the East, Aegean and the Mediterrenean shores in the West, Aral Lake, Caspian Sea, Caucasian and the Black Sea in the North and Arabia and Gulf of Oman in the South (total area 10,000,000 sq. km)

Additional information: This refers to the Seljuk Turks, a Muslim dynasty established in what is now eastern Turkey after about 1065 AD.

Flag: The alleged flag of the Great Seljuk Empire is blue with a white winged and double-headed silhouette and a black bow and arrow.

I'm a stickler for history, too (for the most part), but at least with these banners I think Danova's Seljuk symbol design is prettier! And it's not too far off from the alleged banner you posted. Just nicer looking!]

Plus, I read somewhere that the Seljuks used a lot of black for their banners as that was the colour of the Abbasids and they considered themselves the successors of the Abbasids. So I was thinking of making the Seljuk Royal Banner black with the Abbasid symbol on it. What do you think?

[Socal_infidel]

Uh, so yeah, finally got around this past weekend to getting some of the models actually into the game (as opposed to just posting renders of them in Milkshape)

These are some random screenies of a battle between some Turcopoles in the employ of the Byzantines and some armour upgraded Seljuk Horse Archers.

Please note that I still need to correct the Seljuk HA model so that the arms and body always match (forgot to do that).

Also the Seljuk hat was custom-created for me by Dome of the Magyar Mod. It's nifty, eh? If you run into him, be sure to + rep him for me!

Seljuk Horse Archers

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Turcopoles

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cheers!

[Boztorgai_Khan]

Here Have I What Map's of Great Seljuk Empire.

Look in Little Map, :wink: Brown Colour at 1080 AD :wink:

[Boztorgai_Khan]

I'm a stickler for history, too (for the most part), but at least with these banners I think Danova's Seljuk symbol design is prettier! And it's not too far off from the alleged banner you posted. Just nicer looking!]

Plus, I read somewhere that the Seljuks used a lot of black for their banners as that was the colour of the Abbasids and they considered themselves the successors of the Abbasids. So I was thinking of making the Seljuk Royal Banner black with the Abbasid symbol on it. What do you think?

Hmm, Okay.. Nice Cool. You Are The Big Boss of MOD
Danova's Seljuk symbol is Great But That is the Symbol of Seljuk of Rum.
Great Seljuks Banner is this: