Faction Thread: the Kingdom of Denmark

[justme]

all things related to Denmark go here

[Hrimfar]

Just a little bit of advice on this faction:

In the 15th century the scandinavian countries are (more or less) allied in what's called the Kalmar Union - this union of nations is ruled over by the danish king, but in the early 1500 (1523 Gustav Vasa entered Stockholm and thereby broke the alliance proclaiming sweden a independent kingdom). Edit: forgot to mention that in the 15th century there were also many conflict about what king should rule in the union, and if the union should exist at all. Good examples are Engelbrechts revolt against the danish king in 1430s and later Christian II invading Sweden and ending his conquest with Stockholms Bloodbath in 1520.

I would suggest one faction Named Danmark which controles the Norweigan and Swedish terrirory at the beginning of the game. In 1522 you might add Sweden as an emerging faction (or re-emerging). It all depends on how the campagnmap will look - if you have a bigger portion of the territory held by Sweden (the northern north sea and Finland, ending at Kexholms between the finish bay and lake Ladoga) then I firmly suggest to include Sweden, if you don't it doesn't really matter.

[Hrimfar]

Denmark
I’ll begin with the lay of the land. The Denmark we are used to today was a radically different, and much so larger kingdom at in the early 16th century. Norway was included in it’s dominion, as well as a large portion of today’s Sweden and Iceland. The most important regions of the Danish kingdom was the isle Sjaelland, Skåne and mainland Jutland (Jylland) which was the core regions of the country. These regions should be quite developed and have a city in each of them; Copenhagen for Sjaelland (which should be the capital city), Lund for Skåne (or possibly the castle of Helsingborg) and Arhus for Jutland. Denmark is also ruling over Norway which should have two regions; Bergen and Oslo. Visby on Gotland should either be a rebel region or held by the Teutonic Order. Sweden should consist of at least two Regions; Kalmar and Stockholm, if possible Gothenburg should be represented at the west coast; today it’s Sweden’s second largest city, but at the time it was just a small trading port.

When it comes to faction leader it should be Christian II who currently rules the country, his father was founder of a dynasty (the Oldenburg dynasty) which lasted until the end of the 19th century.

Christian II

The list of names for the Danish faction isn’t going to be long; the only names used by Danish kings during the period is Christian and Frederick (this continues until 1972 when queen Margrethe II ascends), just kidding – I will make a list of names eventually.

When it comes to military power, I haven’t got the greatest insight into Danish armies from this time, but when reading I have come to the conclusion that much of the forces used were German mercenaries complemented with drafted regiments of local troops armed with muskets and pikes or halberds. The cavalry used pistols or were lancers with heavy south-European influenced armor. I have at present no information regarding any special regiments; I will dig deeper into this later in my research.

Denmark had a lot of wars going on during the time-span of the mod. There are the battles in Sweden, but also battles in Schleswig-Holstein and against Lübeck. The relations with the Dutch are good now, but better in the 17th century.

Edit: another thing; Danmark later aquired a bit of land to the south of Jutland which technicaly made them part of the HRE. Later in history this proved to be a great deal and led to some generals not wanting to attack Danmark from the south via mainland due to it being counted as an agression towards the HRE.

[Hrimfar]

DANISH UNITS (E = early, L = late, EL = early and late)

Melee infantry
Men at arms (poleaxe or warhammer, gothic armour or earlier) E
Pike militia (no changes) EL
Halberd militia (no changes) EL
Norweigan militia (twohanded axe, light or no armour) EL
Landsknægt pikemen (heavier more professional pikemen) EL
Svaerdstav infantry (as obudshaer, maybe better blade) EL
Landsknægt (or Danish) halberdiers (with halberds and late armour) L
Landsknægt (or Danish) swordsmen (with swords or greatswords, late armour and possibly light shield) L

Ranged Infantry
Crossbowmen (steel crossbow, pavis shields, brigandine- or platearmour) E
Crossbow militia (steel crossbow, no armour) EL
Arquebussiers (no changes) EL
Early Musketeers (no changes) L

Cavalry
Ridder (gothic armour, barded horses) E
Men at arms (Gothic or earlier armour, no horsebarding, small shield or none) E
Lancers (no shield, cuirass and lance - same as demi-lancers in game) L
Cuirassers (heavy cavalry, armoured mount, no shield or a small one, lance - the highest late armour upgrade might do) L
Light Cavalry (pistols, light armour – as reiters) L

Swedish halberds similar to the Danish versions


Danish polearms, from the 17th century I believe

[Hrimfar]

I've made this map to show which cities and castles to include in the campagnmap. As you can see Halmstad replaces Varberg and Gothenbourg is replaced by Skara (Gothenbourgh is a port instead). I've also added Ribe as the city which dominates the Schleswig area.

By the time the mod starts Copenhagen should be capital of Denmark; it was really Roskilde which lies quite close to Copenhagen, but the Kalmar Union were ruled from Copenhagen which also became official capital of Denmark in the 1520s. Denmark should also be in control of Arhus, Lund, Halmstad and Oslo. The cities of Ribe, Kalmar, Skara and Stockholm should be rebel cities with strong garrisons in Ribe and Kalmar.

Note: historically Ribe was under Danish control, but as we have to limit campaign provinces, and Schleiswig was a field of battle and conquest for Denmark during this period - it should be controled by Rebels.



Here's a picture of territory currently held by Denmark in the late 15th century. Oslo region included since the Danish king had the Norweigans under much better control than the (at the time) rebellous Swedish regions.

[DrIstvaan]

Thank you, Hrimfar, your posts are very informative! Now that you've drawn this map, I think in my free time I'll see to altering the current one to be like this.

[Hrimfar]

Sounds great!
Maybe it should be apropreate to place a fortress in the Kalmar region. I think that all the others should be cities.

[Nevada]

looks good, nice info!

[Hrimfar]

Updated maps and added Men at arms to unit lists.

[DrIstvaan]

Thanks, I think tomorrow I'll have some time to mod the map.

[Hrimfar]

About region development.
No region should have developed paved roads. Arhus, Copehagen, Lund, Oslo, Halmstad, Ribe and Stockholm should have developed farmlands.

Great churches in the North
There should be cathedrals in thiese cities: Copenhagen (Kopenhavn), Lund & Skara. The cathedrals might be renamed "domkirke" both in Denmark and Sweden. I don't know much about churches in Norway, but Bergen (if included) should also have a domkirke; thanks Hansa.

Harbors and trade
Copenhagen, Arhus and Halmstad should have ports of influence. Most so Copehagen which should also have developed markets. Ribe, Arhus, Copenhagen and Halmstad should have their ports next to the city itself; Lunds port should be in the lower right corner of Skane (Falsterbo-Skanör). Skaras port is Gothebourg, Oslos port should be close to the city (not sure about this one), Stockholms port should be next to the city and so too Kalmars port (large parts of the Danish Navy lay here when Gustav Vasa took stockholm).

Military and Defences
Copenhagen and Oslo should have military buildnings of note, also the two cities should have developed defences (If you are using permanent forts, I might advice in placing one at the crossing from Skane to Shelland and one north of Halmstad.

Guilds
Copenhagen should have a merchants guild as it was one of the greatest tradingposts in Denmark at the time, Lund should have Theologans guild (the first school in Scandinavia; Katedralskolan was founded here in 1085).

Population
Correct me if I'm wrong, but no city of those included here had a population of over 10 000 at 1500?

Unique Building: Domkirke
Public order bonus due to happiness: +10 (or possibly +5)
Public order bonus due to law: +5
Public health bonus: +5

Enables recruitment of: Priest level 1 (bishops)

[Hansa]

Hmm, Denmark starts off in a union with Sweden and Norway. Sweden secedes from the union as stated here by others and Norway stays in the Union with Denmark, in 1536/7 events related to the forced introduction of protestantism made Norway a de facto puppet state under Denmark until 1814, although the union formally still existed. the Danish king was formally a king over Norway and Denmark.

Perhaps a introduce protestantism bonus for Denmark regarding increased control over Norway?

Also, If Norway is made one region I think is makes more sense to have Bjørgvin/Bergen as the main city and not Oslo, around 1500 Nidaros/Trondheim was also bigger than Oslo, but Bjørgvin was probably the biggest city in Scandinavia and probably bigger than all the other Norwegian cities put together, by far the biggest and most important city in Norway anyways.

About region development.
No region should have developed paved roads. Arhus, Copehagen, Lund, Oslo, Halmstad, Ribe and Stockholm should have developed farmlands.

You can probably add the rich lands around Nidaros/Trondheim to that list

Great churches in the North
There should be cathedrals in thiese cities: Copenhagen (Kopenhavn), Lund & Skara. The cathedrals might be renamed "domkirke" both in Denmark and Sweden. I don't know much about churches in Norway, and have not found anything in my research so far.

The main church in norway should be Nidarosdomen in Nidaros (the grave church of St.Olav and together with the toomb of Beckett the main pilgrimage site in northern Europe in Catholic times). Google Nidarosdomen, and I am sure you will find lots of nice pics.The second most important church might have been the cathedral Kristkirken in Bjørgvin, it was torn down by the Danes in the early 17th century because they needed the rocks for Amalienborg castle if I remember correctly. You also have the Hallvardskatedral in Oslo, another cathedral not standing, same for the cathedral in Hamar.

Harbors and trade
Copenhage, Arhus and Halmstad should have ports of influence. Most so Copehagen which should also have developed markets.

Bjørgvin was one of the four Hansa office cities (Bergen, Brügge, London, Novgorod) and should be the most important trading city in Scandinavia.

Military and Defences
Copenhagen and Oslo should have military buildnings of note, also the two cities should have developed defences (If you are using permanent forts, I might advice in placing one at the crossing from Skane to Shelland and one north of Halmstad.

Bjørgvin, Nidaros and not least Konghelle (todays Sweden, then Norwegian Båhuslen) should also have fortifications.

Guilds
Copenhagen should have a merchants guild as it was one of the greatest tradingposts in Denmark at the time, Lund should have Theologans guild (the first school in Scandinavia; Katedralskolan was founded here in 1085).

The first school in Norway was Katedralskolen i Bjørgvin from 1153. If this is valuable info?

[Hansa]

shite delete please

[Hrimfar]

@ Hansa: thank you very much for the info about Norway, I haven't got the books required to research the faction at the moment. PS: are you from Sweden or Norway?

Hmm, Denmark starts off in a union with Sweden and Norway. Sweden secedes from the union as stated here by others and Norway stays in the Union with Denmark, in 1536/7 events related to the forced introduction of protestantism made Norway a de facto puppet state under Denmark until 1814, although the union formally still existed. the Danish king was formally a king over Norway and Denmark.

Yes - but as stated I have chosen not to include Norway as a faction - instead I'm giving the lands to Denmark. If there were any rebellions in Norway (timespan 1490-1536) could you please write them up here.

Perhaps a introduce protestantism bonus for Denmark regarding increased control over Norway?

Also, If Norway is made one region I think is makes more sense to have Bjørgvin/Bergen as the main city and not Oslo, around 1500 Nidaros/Trondheim was also bigger than Oslo, but Bjørgvin was probably the biggest city in Scandinavia and probably bigger than all the other Norwegian cities put together, by far the biggest and most important city in Norway anyways.

Yes - if the map is going to strech further north - I also suggest adding Bergen as a city.

You can probably add the rich lands around Nidaros/Trondheim to that list

The main church in norway should be Nidarosdomen in Nidaros (the grave church of St.Olav and together with the toomb of Beckett the main pilgrimage site in northern Europe in Catholic times). Google Nidarosdomen, and I am sure you will find lots of nice pics.The second most important church might have been the cathedral Kristkirken in Bjørgvin, it was torn down by the Danes in the early 17th century because they needed the rocks for Amalienborg castle if I remember correctly. You also have the Hallvardskatedral in Oslo, another cathedral not standing, same for the cathedral in Hamar.

Bjørgvin was one of the four Hansa office cities (Bergen, Brügge, London, Novgorod) and should be the most important trading city in Scandinavia.

Bjørgvin, Nidaros and not least Konghelle (todays Sweden, then Norwegian Båhuslen) should also have fortifications.

Yes - st Olaus in Swedish, he was the greatest saint of the north, later his popularity in Sweden decreased, as our own saint: king Erik were introduced to the common people.

There was an important fortification at the coast north of Gothebourh, don't remember name of the fort though.

The first school in Norway was Katedralskolen i Bjørgvin from 1153. If this is valuable info?

I though about thiese schools as educational systems for both nobles bnut also higher ranking priests; hence theolgists guild. Also lund was an important city for the church in Denmark, Skara was important in Sweden.

Expanding the map?
It might be a good Idea to expand the map a bit to the north; if done the northern provinces of Bergen and Uppsala might be added. It might also be a good idea for the colonisation of North America. If the map is expanded, Uppsala and Bergen should be cities with Bergen being a large city. The two of them would have a domkirke, and Bergen should be developed in the trading area: good port, merchants guilde, good market. Also bergen and Uppsala should have developed farmlands.

Maybe something like this would do?

[DrIstvaan]

I've been tempering with the map, haven't finished the changes yet, but a few things on a side note.
-I won't expand the map, or at least not now; sure, it would, be nice, but it requires even more attention than the polishing of the original, and there are much more possibilities for errors. Maybe when I'm done with the original, but even then, not too probable (the case is that I never tried expanding the map). Also, there might be a second obstacle, which is in conjunction with the second point.
-I see on your drawn map there are more provinces than on the original. I'll try to mod them in, but I'm not sure if it's possible; there's some kind of limit for the number of provinces, and this one already has much more of them than the original game.

[Hrimfar]

I don't think that there is more than 1 more province on my map than in current renaissance map. The regions of Bergen and Uppsala was incase there would be a expanded map. The most important settlements to add is in order of importance: Copenhagen, Lund, Kalmar, Skara, Ribe, Halmstad.

[Hansa]

@ Hansa: thank you very much for the info about Norway, I haven't got the books required to research the faction at the moment. PS: are you from Sweden or Norway?

My avatar is that of Lübeckian merchants trading in Bergen. I think that answers the nation bit. (BTW I never argued for including Norway, which I do not consider wize in a late medieval/early modern times mod). No point as it starts of in a union and ends up as a de facto puppet of Denmark (keeping its laws and some other stuff but loosing its counsel of nobles).

There were no major rebellions in Norway in that period as I am aware of. The catholic Archbishop of Norway, Engelbrehctsson tried to organize a massive rebellion, but failed (although he apparently came very close to mobilizing most/the vast majority of the Norwegian aristocracy, which would most probably have meant an independent Catholic Norway).

The map looks fine although you are obviously missing the second/third most important town and church center of Norway. There were also obviously developed farmlands around Bergen, but to a small extent and grain was rather imported than exported (from the Baltic Lands/Order state). I also think the port in Oslo should be at Oslo, not Thunsberg (which looses relevance after the introduction of protestantism in Norway). I am not sure of the road between slo and Tunsberg either, I believe all transport in coastal areas happened at sea, but I may be wrong.

BTW. Norwegian militia should be called Leidang. Whether the proscripted armament you have given them is correct I have no idea about. In the early 16th century the Leidang seems to have been dismantled and the defence of Norway seems to have fallen to a few knights and knechts (probably German and Danish). The Leidang was also made a fully professional force in the high middel ages but I don't think this force existed in the later middle ages. I am also unsure about the use of the term Landsknechts. I have a lot of collleagues who work with this period, reading original Danish, Norwegian and German sources and they always use the term knecht. Also Norway had a massive fleet militia (again Leidang. The last time the Leidang was called out was the western Norwegian one in Bjørgvin in 1428/9, to counter the fleet of the Victual brothers, it counted about 100 ships. As they were all longships they were utterly and completely ineffective, useless at naval warfare, and they were called out aganst German Cogs with cannons (result massacre). Anyways it is still a large (relic of a) fleet, and extremely useful for rapid placement of troops in coast near areas, and for transport in general.

[Carl von Döbeln]

Sweden must be in

[corey4045]

ya and the battle of lund

[DrIstvaan]

Sweden, by the current stand of things, won't be in for the next version; maybe at a later time.