The Dutch Republic - Faction Thread

[Yoram777]

That would be awesome! but does that mean each island will have a city? or maybe a sort of settlement.

Well the smallest Caribbean settlements seen in the screens were:
Port Royal, Jamaica and Nassau, Bahamas.. and those are pretty small.

ETW map screens:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...117379&page=61

But is you look at the Bahamas only 1 of the islands has a settlement, so there probably won't be a settlement on every little other island but there will definitely be several, because you can tell by looking at that picture that there are different owners.


Dutch screenshot (from 27th Jan 09)



and another one




:hmmm:

btw.. is it just me or do those pirate ships kind of look more like 17th century style ships??? (especially the pirate ship in the first pic)
instead of the 18th century style ones seen in use by the navies....

Could this mean that older style ships actually ARE in the game?.. late 17th century style ships were still in use in the early 18th century so it would be accurate...

It would be pretty cool and might also make it easier to make a 17th century mod

[Sparkshot]

Looks like the Netherlands Antilles(West Indies) are in!
On the campaign screens it wasn't visible, but on this little map from the Road to Independence campaign it's clearly visible!

The white is the early US controlled lands , the red is enemy (Mostly Britain) and the green friendly or allied.

But it also gives us prove that even the smallest Caribbean islands are under control of certain factions (so have some type of settlement on them).
In the videos you could already see some small islands in the north west Caribbean had settlements on them but they haven't shown us the rest of the Caribbean yet.
But in this map the Antilles are clearly green and so under control of a faction (the United Provinces ).

(It also shows us the United Provinces are allies and trade partners of the United States in the Road to Independence campaign)

May I ask where you found that because everyone is using a pic similar to this to argue that the faction icons listed are the official 12 factions? Apparently this would refute that assumption.

[Yoram777]

May I ask where you found that because everyone is using a pic similar to this to argue that the faction icons listed are the official 12 factions? Apparently this would refute that assumption.

I just found that pic somewhere on the forums..
Anyway, it's from the road to independence campaign which would explain why there are some different (Indian?) factions.

[Yoram777]

Just found an interesting website about the composition of the Dutch army :
(It's mostly only about infantry though)

http://www.spanishsuccession.nl/dutch_army.html

By 1700 the Dutch army had a rich history and was the second largest army in Europe.

In the beginning of 1702 the Dutch Army was composed as follows.

The 'national' regiments of the infantry consisted of: 48 mainly Dutch Regiments and two independent guard companies numbered 1-51.

Other national regiments were:
1 Swedish No 52.
1 Prussian No 53 and 3 Huguenot No 54-56.
There was also a Scottish Brigade with 6 Scottish regiments, No 57-62 and a Swiss brigade with 7 Swiss No 63-69.
Of these regiments the Blue Guards numbered three battalions and the Frisian Guards and most Swiss two.
So this makes for 66 regiments and two independent companies which fielded 75 national battalions and two companies.

The 'national' cavalry consisted of 73 squadrons.

In 1701 and 1702 the Dutch army was brought back to strength and the papers relating to this give a good idea about how strong the abovementioned units were:
The 1700 Staat van Oorlog called for 94 cavalry companies which regularly had 43 horses.
The first Extra-Staat van Oorlog following it added 12 men to each company, the second added 4 men more and added 72 new companies of 58 horses.
The third added 48 companies of subsidy troops.
This resulted in a cavalry strength of 214 companies with 13,489 horses.
For the infantry this meant that the strength of each company was brought back to 66 (Swiss 178), meaning that 11,982 men were added to these.
Furthermore 146 new companies were added, which brought in 11,116 men, and 17,454 men were added to the subsidy troops. This gave the infantry a strength of 78,851 men.

[Mangerman]

Just found an interesting website about the composition of the Dutch army :
(It's mostly only about infantry though)

http://www.spanishsuccession.nl/dutch_army.html

By 1700 the Dutch army had a rich history and was the second largest army in Europe.

That probably won't be represented in the game though.

[jarnomiedema]

Just found an interesting website about the composition of the Dutch army :
(It's mostly only about infantry though)

http://www.spanishsuccession.nl/dutch_army.html

Awesome! Now if only we could find some accurate pictures of uniforms for those units, including the Swiss, Swedish, Prussian and Scottish regiments and ofcourse the Blue and Frisian Guards; that would make for a very interesting change in look for the Dutch Republic in a potential mod! I mean, I understand why they're using brownish uniforms, but they're not exactly very imaginative..

Also, I'm aware of the pictures on that New York Library website, but they're very undetailed.. Still, if someone feels up for it..

[Gen. Discomfort]

Wow, great stuff. Real modderfodder. I don't really like the idea of orange/brown uniforms in the game, not very accurate and potentially ugly.

Also, I know precious little about the Dutch army. It's almost as if people are hiding it from me. The more I learn about it, the more I am amazed at the lack of attention for our own history. Especially the military side.

[[Grognard]_Arjan]

I can really recommend reading books by Olaf van Nimwegen about the Dutch army in 18th century. although it says little to nothing about the uniform colours.

There's a short summary of his work in the book Met Man en macht, thats a book about the Dutch army through the ages.

And yes, its pretty a mazing that a small republic with only about 2 million inhabitants, if not less, could fight off the French (with some help ofcourse, but within the Grand Alliance, it was the Republic that provided the most soldiers.)

[Gen. Discomfort]

Thanks for the titles, I'll look them up. Both sound interesting. Don't mind about the uniforms, they're details. I'd rep you if I could, so here's a ghostrep to you.

That's also what amazes me, being such a small region in Europe growing out to such a dominant force in so little time. Not only taking on the French but also countries like Britain, Sweden and Spain, and sometimes at the same time. Not to mention all the internal struggles going on while being awesome. Especially when you realize they had to make it all up as they went along since there was no example or tradition to draw from.

BTW, I've also starting reading this book in anticipation of you-know-what: "Ooggetuigen van de Gouden Eeuw", by René van Stipriaan. They're short stories by eyewitnesses of (great) events. One of my favorites is an account of Tsar Peter the Great working as an apprentice shipbuilder in de Zaanse Schans. Posing and working(!) incognito as an apprentice, yet anyone who dares to look him in the eye gets "knighted" by a firm slap in the face, aided by his assistant if there are multiple offenders.

[[Grognard]_Arjan]

How can i rep people, i dont understand this system (fairly new)

[Yoram777]

How can i rep people, i dont understand this system (fairly new)

Only users registered for at least one week with over 50 posts may give rep that counts.

For more info you can look here (just scroll all the way down):
http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/TWC:FAQ


btw, nice signature you have (my own old sig)

[[Grognard]_Arjan]

I know :p

[Flodin]

Awesome! Now if only we could find some accurate pictures of uniforms for those units, including the Swiss, Swedish, Prussian and Scottish regiments and ofcourse the Blue and Frisian Guards; that would make for a very interesting change in look for the Dutch Republic in a potential mod! I mean, I understand why they're using brownish uniforms, but they're not exactly very imaginative..

Also, I'm aware of the pictures on that New York Library website, but they're very undetailed.. Still, if someone feels up for it..

Hi, maybe I can help you, I have quite a lot matrieal abaut the Dutch army uniforms during this time, some images but most written sources.
Cheers !

[Jopel]

http://translate.google.com/translat...or%2findex.asp

We have a fairly rough ride from the beginning

[jarnomiedema]

Hi, maybe I can help you, I have quite a lot matrieal abaut the Dutch army uniforms during this time, some images but most written sources.
Cheers !

Thanks! I'm sure there are plenty of modders who'd be happy with that.. I just posted this in the thread 'Dutch Military Uniform Color':

Following this link will get you to the Netherlands section of the Vinkhuijzen collection of military uniforms at the website of the New York public library.

It contains a great deal of images of Dutch uniforms for different regiments and army sections.. There was no general uniform, but there seem to be a great deal of similarity, although there's plenty of difference in the details..

Here are a few I like.. I put them in spoiler tags, because they might otherwise clutter up the page..

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Officer and Cannoneer (1748/49)


Hessian infantry regiment soldier (1748)


Grenadier of the Holland Guard (1750)


Fusilier of the Holland Guard (1750)


Grenadier of the Swiss Guard (1750)


Horse Guard Regiment (1753)


Orange-Frisian Cavalry Regiment (1753) - This seems to be the dominant colour scheme for Dutch cavalry of the mid 18th century


Infantry Regiment Leiden and Croye - These seem to be the dominant colour schemes for Dutch infantry of the mid 18th century

And ofcourse it goes on and on, but I think that gives a nice general indication of what Dutch troops looked like during the first half of the 18th century.. Clearly the dominant colours were red, white and blue, with a dash of beige/brown every now and then.. Plenty of material for mod makers in that database I'd think!

That database is awesome.. I'd seen it before, scanned it and even posted some pictures several pages back, but only now do I realize its full potential.. This is a modders godsend!

[Yoram777]

That probably won't be represented in the game though.

No, for the sake of gameplay I suppose not. (but still good info for a realism mod)

But I'm ok with that since CA already said on the official website; the Dutch will have the number 1 navy in the world,
so also giving them the second largest army of Europe would make the power difference between all factions too unbalanced I suppose..

Besides, they changed the border so the United Provinces border exactly at the river Rhine,
which gives us a defensive advantage since there is only one way in from the south so you can focus the majority of your defenses at one place.
And then have fun overseas and on the seas
(unless you want to play it differently of course)

Awesome!

Exactly...

[nurhak]

after played with the Ottoman Empire im gonna play with Nederland

[Yoram777]

AWESOME NEWS

We have new uniforms!!!!!!:thumbsup4
blue uniforms with orange facings.
The blue is a bit bright but at least it's much more correct than that weird brown

Screenies from the new vid
(i know, i know, when there is a better version of the video I'll take better screens)













Look closely at these last two, there a small but really cool detail:





They are carrying the 7 striped Dutch flag instead of the regular one






This is a so-called "Double Princevlag / triple Princeflag".
"Princeflag" is the early name for the Dutch tricolour (either orange-white-blue or red-white-blue, (later referring to the orange-white-blue only)).
It was not uncommon to have the stripes twice (double Princeflag) or even three times (triple Princeflag).
And sometimes an extra white stripe was added blue and red.

a very small but very cool detail if you ask me

[nurhak]

vet!!

[Gen. Discomfort]

Sweet. Finally some Dutch soldiers. Mudbrown is sóóóó 1699.

Even though we lost that battle against the English, we played a lot smarter. With that square thing versus the madmen running headlong into bayonets.

Edit: I always thought the prinsenvlag was a naval flag. Have I always thought wrong?