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Thread: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

  1. #61
    King of Axum's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    if anything they should get good long range Arab/ Berber tribal skirmisher's .
    How great is he who gains the world but loses their soul? :hmmm:

  2. #62
    MehemtAli_Pasha's Avatar Kei kihei
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    u guys watch a lot of pirates of the caribbean and clearly it has a big effect on most of u..just beacause u want a barbary states faction u make up a lot of thing...the word "barbary states" is just a name given by the western people(europeans) because there were a lot of piracy acts in these states, in this time of period.

    these pirates or barbarians(whatever u wanna call them) are just like modern day outlaws..gangs..can we say gangs are a faction?!!!!Nooooo...the ottoman empire (or any faction controling the "barbary states" province) may very much have an access to these pirate or barbary units but they will not make up a state(i hope) because the didn't have a political entity.
    Last edited by MehemtAli_Pasha; January 14, 2008 at 01:28 AM.

  3. #63
    Axeman's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    1- Yes, they did have political authority, they where under patronage of the Ottoman Empire but the Ottomans never had centralized control of them for long.

    2- Yes the term "Barbary States" is a western derivative for 3 seperate political entities its much more prudent then to have just 1 of the states, then 3 seperate ones. This fact hasn't stopped CA from creating factions like "Gaul" and "Germania"

    3-Next time you think I make up stuff about a faction pick up a book or go online, everything in my first post have been proven to be 100% reliable, its not like im saying the Barbary States will be some sort of fantasy faction .....

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  4. #64
    MehemtAli_Pasha's Avatar Kei kihei
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    1-So what, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Greece and many other provinces of the Ottoman Empire fought for independence, if u made all those as playable factions, then CA wouldn't have called the game EMPIRE totalwar..no STATE total war or whatever..it's about big huge empires (take the hint)
    2- So what..many other provinces had a separate political entities during the Ottoman Empire..Egypt during Mohamed Ali Pasha is just one example..make that a reason to make it as a playable faction in empire and u will have hundreds of other playable factions...oh and again IT'S ABOUT EMPIRES NOT STATES OR PROVINCES ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    3-ok Mr. 100% reliable...A) if u are talking about history..then the Barbary states are subject to the Ottoman Empire, and Obviously they were not an empire just beacause they have separate legal political entities B) They can't and believe me they are not gonna be a playble faction because they are not an empire..and how do i know this? check out the second Q&A question..oh i have it for ya.. "Q: How many factions will there be in the game? And will [insert name of home country here] be included?
    A: These two related questions are two of the most popular, particularly the "Will my country..." bit. People also wondered how we end up with the faction list. Surprisingly, nationalism and irrational prejudice do not drive our choices. If they did, then Yorkshire, Dorking, the Kingdom of Bognor, Chicken Madras and the Democratic Workers' Republic of Woking would automatically be factions. In every game." every one who has hope that "Barbary States" are going be to be a playable faction...Sweet Dreams!!!
    Am I 100% reliable?!..hahahahaha
    Last edited by MehemtAli_Pasha; January 16, 2008 at 11:31 AM.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MehemtAli_Pasha View Post
    1-So what, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Greece and many other provinces of the Ottoman Empire fought for independence, if u made all those as playable factions, then CA wouldn't have called the game EMPIRE totalwar..no STATE total war or whatever..it's about big huge empires (take the hint)
    2- So what..many other provinces had a separate political entities during the Ottoman Empire..Egypt during Mohamed Ali Pasha is just one example..make that a reason to make it as a playable faction in empire and u will have hundreds of other playable factions...oh and again IT'S ABOUT EMPIRES NOT STATES OR PROVINCES ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    3-ok Mr. 100% reliable...A) if u are talking about history..then the Barbary states are subject to the Ottoman Empire, and Obviously they were not an empire just beacause they have separate legal political entities B) They can't and believe me they are not gonna be a playble faction because they are not an empire..and how do i know this? check out the second Q&A question..oh i have it for ya.. "Q: How many factions will there be in the game? And will [insert name of home country here] be included?
    A: These two related questions are two of the most popular, particularly the "Will my country..." bit. People also wondered how we end up with the faction list. Surprisingly, nationalism and irrational prejudice do not drive our choices. If they did, then Yorkshire, Dorking, the Kingdom of Bognor, Chicken Madras and the Democratic Workers' Republic of Woking would automatically be factions. In every game." every one who has hope that "Barbary States" are going be to be a playable faction...Sweet Dreams!!!
    Am I 100% reliable?!..hahahahaha
    in dont know many about barbary states during ottomans years many provinces had a great term of independence or autonomy and in other occasions the local ottoman governor would rebel against the ottoman goverment like the guy yu have in yur avatar so if Barbary states can support their historical autonomy they could be in as faction unter the patronage of ottoman empire because with same logic the game should not have 13 states.

  6. #66
    Axeman's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MehemtAli_Pasha View Post
    1-So what, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Greece and many other provinces of the Ottoman Empire fought for independence, if u made all those as playable factions, then CA wouldn't have called the game EMPIRE totalwar..no STATE total war or whatever..it's about big huge empires (take the hint)
    2- So what..many other provinces had a separate political entities during the Ottoman Empire..Egypt during Mohamed Ali Pasha is just one example..make that a reason to make it as a playable faction in empire and u will have hundreds of other playable factions...oh and again IT'S ABOUT EMPIRES NOT STATES OR PROVINCES ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    3-ok Mr. 100% reliable...A) if u are talking about history..then the Barbary states are subject to the Ottoman Empire, and Obviously they were not an empire just beacause they have separate legal political entities B) They can't and believe me they are not gonna be a playble faction because they are not an empire..and how do i know this? check out the second Q&A question..oh i have it for ya.. "Q: How many factions will there be in the game? And will [insert name of home country here] be included?
    A: These two related questions are two of the most popular, particularly the "Will my country..." bit. People also wondered how we end up with the faction list. Surprisingly, nationalism and irrational prejudice do not drive our choices. If they did, then Yorkshire, Dorking, the Kingdom of Bognor, Chicken Madras and the Democratic Workers' Republic of Woking would automatically be factions. In every game." every one who has hope that "Barbary States" are going be to be a playable faction...Sweet Dreams!!!
    Am I 100% reliable?!..hahahahaha

    1- I know the Barbary States where under Patronage of the ottoman empire, but thats just it, PATRONAGE.

    The Barbary States where under effective control of the Ottomans from the early 1600s to late 1600s, it starts in the year 1000.

    2- The game isn't just about historical accuracy, its also about balance. Doesn't seem very fair to have an eastern faction with a massive navy, great land army, the Janissary Core, and room for expansion into Iberia, Morroco, and the Sahara.

    3-You quoted something about Home Country, I live in south africa, last time I checked that is not Libya, Algeria, or Tunis, and my ancestors come from Germany and England....

    4-No you are not 100% reliable

    5-Why wouldn't the Barbary States be a faction, as said earlier they raised serious hell for the Medeteranian Powers, there is no reason for the Ottoman Empire to be one huge faction, there is no reason there cannot be small unique factions in as well. Do you think Milan or Denmark in m2tw could have conquered large areas of Europe, no? Well then, why does every faction in this game have to be a massive empire?

    6-Yes many other areas did fight for indepenced, and THEY LOST. The barbary states not only never fought, but the Ottomans GAVE them thier own authority as long as thier Xebecs acted as an auxillary to the Ottoman Empire.This thread is about the Barbary States, CA may script rebellions such as rebellions in Arabia and Greece and the French Revolution, anything is possible.

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  7. #67
    MehemtAli_Pasha's Avatar Kei kihei
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    i agree with u that its a pitty to have only 1 eastern empire...but not a very strong empire thought at that time of period(read the decline of the ottoman empire at wikipedia or somethin)..take in mind u only got 10 playable factions from 4 continents and surely one of them is europe..u know what i mean..CA at least will choose 4 factions (4 factions from europe is the very least) from europe. ETW will cover a huge area of the world map and they got only 10 faction to choose from so u really think the Barbary states should be one of the 10?!!!!!!!

    U cannot compare M2TW or RTW with ETW coz ETW covers a big part of the world map and M2TW and RTW cover just the middle east..so CA had a lot of options in M2TW and RTW unlike ETW..not a lot to choose from!

    U really think the "Barabary States" was a strong province of the Ottoman Empire at that time..y don't go read about other provinces like Greece or Egypt and see how these 2 nations threaten the Ottoman Empire..Greece did succede to have it's independence from the Ottomans and Egypt was about to march into constantinople and replace the Ottoman Empire with it's own(fighting the Ottomans, and the Great Powers!).

    i think u should read other nations in that time period and u'll see that the Barbary states wouldn't even make 20 strongest nations of that time!
    Last edited by MehemtAli_Pasha; January 18, 2008 at 11:07 AM.

  8. #68
    Axeman's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    Lol, they are making 50 factions for ETW, not 10.....

    And they werent a strong land province, but thier consequences where far more reaching, thier navy, as I stated in my first post the barbary states will probably just be a primarilly naval faction, with some long range deffensive gunners.

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  9. #69
    masterbaker's Avatar Yoda
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    If CA will be making its so called "mini factions" the Barbary states should definitely be in there.

  10. #70
    MehemtAli_Pasha's Avatar Kei kihei
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    iam talking about the PLAYABLE factions...u know that there will only be 10 playable factions right?!!!!!!

    CA already confirmed that they will not increase the number of playable factions (although many fans would die for more than 10 including me) because of time and money but who cares, they'll probably have an expansion which will have more factions...6 of the faction are already confirmed...Britian, Prussia, France, Spain, Ottoman Empire and the 13 colonies...hoping to see Portugal and the Mughal Empire in the last 4.

  11. #71
    Yamabe
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    Barbary Pirates would indeed be a great faction (non playable) to have in the game. Didnt CA say trade will be much more important this time around? and obviously navies will play a much larger role. Having them as a non playable faction would definately keep any european nations dreams of expanding in the medditeranean/ western africa in check. Also, I may be wrong but isnt the Netherlands( United Provinces i think they called it) confirmed as a faction? they were also an almost purely naval force. With all the extra attention on navies and trade, im pretty sure the Barbary pirates will be appearing somewhere in the game

  12. #72
    k_161's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MehemtAli_Pasha View Post
    iam talking about the PLAYABLE factions...u know that there will only be 10 playable factions right?!!!!!!

    CA already confirmed that they will not increase the number of playable factions (although many fans would die for more than 10 including me) because of time and money but who cares, they'll probably have an expansion which will have more factions...6 of the faction are already confirmed...Britian, Prussia, France, Spain, Ottoman Empire and the 13 colonies...hoping to see Portugal and the Mughal Empire in the last 4.
    The 40 other factions will be playable with some minor moding.Who wants to play 10 European factions? :/.Sure they wont be as defined as the main 10, but still playable.And i'm all for a Barbary state factions with some unique victory conditions.Nice job on the first post btw Axe learned a few things ^_^.


    "No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore I am no beast"

  13. #73
    Axeman's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    As I recall I never said the Barbary States would be a playable faction, I just said they should be included.....

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  14. #74
    Murakawa
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    I think the Barbary States would be a GREAT faction to include! As a mainly coastal nation that existed in the time period the game I think that (if it is in the game and in fact playable) a lot of people would try that as one of their first, just to experience the naval combat right at the start of the campaign.

    Personally I would play the Barbary States first because I really want to see the naval combat, and I mean come on they're pirates! Who doesn’t want to be a pirate?

  15. #75
    masterbaker's Avatar Yoda
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    I do not want to be a pirate.

  16. #76
    Agent Provocateur's Avatar Grand Fromage Monkey
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    I think the Barbary states would be an excellent idea! Not sure if they shold be playable though. They diverted huge amounts of energy and resources to the Mediterranean for countries like France. They put a serious spanner in the development of most areas of the Mediterranean throughout this period. A side blow of all this was of course the fact that they gave Northern European nations an added bonus in their competition with Southern Europe.

    I still don't believe they should be in the game as playable factions though. Didn't they have to rely on piracy to sustain themselves in the way they did? Didn't their environment stop them compteting with other historically successful nations in any other way. My point is piracy can only take you so far. Once they seriously piss off someone semi successful they are going to get flattened. Isn't this what essentially happened when France, free of revolutionary and napoleonic distractions settled their hash? They don't have resources to compete only to harass.

    However, they should be an important consideration for any Mediterranean faction.

  17. #77
    coik's Avatar Murakawa
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    the turks were not that strong....in fact i can say they were weak.they never managed to overcome the romanian states.bulgaria and greecewere easily defeated but Moldova,Transilvania and Tara Romaneasca were never a part of the Otoman empire.I think that the creators of Medieval II made a big mistake when they made thys states simple rebels.my people played a crucial part in stopping the muslim advance into europe...nobody managed to conquer us..not even the rus or the austrians
    Last edited by coik; February 22, 2008 at 06:55 AM.

  18. #78
    Axeman's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    Coik, that is totally irellevant to the conversation, for one, the turks portrayed in vanilla medieval refer to the Sultunate of Rum and the Seljuks, secondly, there was also design limitations, they had to leave room for modders, and make it so you don't have 20 small nations huddled next togather resulting in an ahistorical slug fest leaving only one left.

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  19. #79
    Yamabe
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    Maybe including an african nation would be a good excuse to also have slavery, it would be a big miss to not have slavery. Too big factor of the time to ignore

  20. #80
    Axeman's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: The Barbary States - Faction Thread

    Well thats PC bs. They don't have to include slavery, and leaving out the Barbary States on the basis of slavery you might as well leave out Spain, America, Ottoman Empire, ect.....

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