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Thread: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

  1. #61
    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Portuguese Rebel View Post
    Please do finish it, i'm trying to update myself on all the stuff that went to past after i left.
    It's only a start, its not complete or incredibly detailed, but you could check out the history section on the TWC wiki, it has some relevant information.

  2. #62

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar Face View Post
    It's only a start, its not complete or incredibly detailed, but you could check out the history section on the TWC wiki, it has some relevant information.
    I'm going to have to write a "myths and facts" section just to correct the storyline, I'l try to stay on a neutral position, which won't be an easy task.

    Anyone who wants to find the dry/cut version of the story can go here. It as dry as it can get, not to mention about missing information , due to having no other proof than chat discussions and emails/pms between staff administrators, owners and the network admins.


    -So in my last post of the story, I was down to the point, where Sulla started to be absent from the forum, as well as Mithras and Besim wasn't seen in months. First Sulla would show up once a week, then it went once in every two weeks and so on.

    I felt like I was really stuck between a rock and a hard place and the mood couldn't have been worse on TWC. The dog days of January through March with no significant step towards any direction, beside some news floating over from the CA officials about the expansion to Rome, but besides that, the place was in a stand still before a storm.
    At least, I felt that way, having the highest administrative priviledges, but at the same time I had no authority, since the entire staff was placed into a limbo, because Sulla was still the site admin and the Network Admins (Mithras/Besim) weren't really around to notice the situation.
    So I got requests for all sorts of things and the Curia running hot over topics and criticism of the staff and of course I was getting heat for possibly no other reason, that I was the highest authority and I was not a Curia favorite, and I did treated them as such a body within the TWC, which shouldn't have much significance and neither too much say into forum administration.

    I don't know how many emails and pms I sent to the Network admins, but I had no response, meanwhile I tried to be-friend some people and asked for advices (Siblesz, Spartan, Beli etc) , I had some good time chatting and wasting time, but meanwhile I was grinding away inside for having my hands tied behind my back and what disturbed me most was the unresponding network admins and owner plus Sulla's absence.

    One day finally Sulla showed up and gave me his title with the approval of Mithras. To tell you the truth, not much changed and I'm trying to recollect my memory here, I have begun to start some construction and tried to get to a common term with the Curia as well as the staff begun expand, and even though to contra some myths, I was getting the staff out of the Curia itself - which might have to do later with the rebellion that ultimately caused my fall at a later time.

    Just around March of 2005 (?) , Mithras shows up on my chatlist and informs me, that they are selling off the Ogresnet and it will cease to exist within a month, and TWC was about to be deleted.

    This was a shock and since I had the hold on on Mithras, I quickly came up with an alternative, in which we agreed, that instead of deletion of TWC, I will rent out a server space on Godaddy (out of my pocket) and he will help to transfer the forum to the new address. I reserved the place for it, paid the fee for the tab (47 dollars, IIRC) for a placeholder and begun to think about how to go forward, because I felt, this place is getting out of the yoke it has been stuck in and Belisarius can correct me on this (if he still has any chatlogs or memorized it) , but I had a vision of stepping down from being the webmaster and becoming a network admin, to deal only with technical aspects running the forum (much like Simmetrical right now) and stay out of the politics and administration of the forum.

    The idea was well on track, tried to hire more people, but the entire deal was still under wraps and only a few people knew about the transfer and we wanted to make the transition as smooth as possible. I made closer ties with Sega reps and CA devs at the same time to secure the connections and not raise any doubts about the continuation of the site, and at the same time the place was getting a healthy dose of new members.

    Just as the date was closing in for the transfer, Mithras pops back on out of nowhere and informs me that they are not selling the place, they decided to keep the forum under ON. This was a serious blow. I wasted my money and energy , I felt like ready to kill someone. This was one of the major reasons I became very unsatisfied with many things later on, and I felt very rebellious , because the new decision about keeping the place was like falling back to the hell of no communication and the presence of staleness and being my arms tied up, because even though as a webmaster, all the decisions were channeled down from the network admins, and my rank was just formality.

    My dissatisfaction and anger came out in various forms, I usually took it out on either the Curia (which felt like drag on top of all the other things going in the background) I found myself in the crossfire coming both from the staff and the Curia, not the mention the fire burning inside me about feeling a little pride in my work (the forum received some serious boost in members during my reign, regardless what anyone says, I had some role in this) just to get stomped back in the the dirt, and others taking advantage of my contribution and my work (I have never received money , neither wanted any, but appearantly some people did, that's why the decision), I took a sharp turn and begun to act like what they wanted me to be.

    Some people say , I was abusing my powers, and I did in a point of view, but they wanted to have me to be that way and I tried.
    I allowed some of the most loyal forum members (Garb, Imb, Tom Paine) etc. I say I allowed, because even though many were "voted in" , the final decision of the approval was mine, not to mention the advance in the ranks was ultimately in my hands.
    Most loyal forum members, and yet very rebellious , especially if they felt like I was stomping on their newly gained rights and priviledges (incidents like my own made up laws in the mudpit, the curia passport etc), so basically I did abuse with my power, whether or not you believe that it was because I'm an evil person or it has to do with my frustration from the past and the present (present = then) + not to mention, a just a few months ago, some of these members were the Curia's main heads, save a few, I did hire my "best enemies"- take that in an alternative meaning, since it has nothing to do in person, since we never met and I had some good time chatting and getting to know them, but more of the sense of "enemies" that were more to be to post negative opinion about me than positive.

    More on this Negative/positive attitudes on TWC has partially due to the sharp divide between people being here for other reasons than the game, the forum named after and the people here for solely the game.
    I'm the later, I came here as a game modder, while many here for a purpose of debating either in the Curia or a forum with a different topic than the game itself. To tell you the truth I never intended to debate, much less go into the forum politics and I did not favor many things on about how to get elected and I always opposed the advancements of such persons who had little or no care for the total war games, and I was always in favor to work towards to get those people in power, who worked the real engine behind TWC, and that is the modder/gamer section. This was always a hot topic, probably due to the fact, that most of the staff and admins were that type of people, who came from the Curia and some of them never visited the game section of the forum, and even when I'm writing this, I guarantee someone will go at me for this, since I'm writing in the Symposium, which is the offspring of the Curia itself.
    I'm not saying, that the 'off topic' people have no care or they aren't qualified to lead the forum, what I'm saying is, that my personal preference on who should be in control was opposed to the majority residing in the staff at that time, and hence the negativity between me and the staff , even when it was "peacetime" , I always felt the presence of not finding a way to fully be in control of my own staff.

    To be continued...
    Last edited by HorseArcher; August 22, 2008 at 02:01 PM.

  3. #63

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    This is a stirring read, Archer, will you continue?

  4. #64
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    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Ditto. I just discovered this, and it reads better than several history books I own.

  5. #65

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Ok, don't have a lot of time, but I'll continue....

    So ok, we're back at the point, (i'm cutting out some very stale months) before the first rebellion happened on TWC.

    So here I am finally getting root-admin access (c-panel ec) after finally convince Mithras (Network Admin and co-owner of TWC) that I won't mess around with it, but I need it if I want to implement new banners to the front page etc..

    So I befriened Belisarius , who is actually a very swell guy here (known as "GENERAL MAXIMUS") an "old guard" - from the stone-age TWC times. We talked a lot about the forums and chicks and drinking on the chat and lot's of forum politics, many nonesense, so anyway I have told my plans and concerns also talked to Siblesz time to time asking advice etc.

    Then I have met Honor&Glory, who is - one hell of a controversial figure- to say the least about him , but trust me guys, on chat he is just a common kid with a lot of ambition, but on the forums....well, many of you know the story if not, I'm sure there is someone who can help to update you with more info about him.

    I remember I got into some conflicts over the staff about HG and his staff position on TWC, since even Mimirswell wanted to fire him a couple of times IIRC...and he was put on trial. I think he was brewing a revenge from that point on, and since I protected him despite mistakes he has made while moderating the forums, he felt that I could help him even more.

    Meanwhile Ferrets was perma-banned for almost a year (?) by then, from this furious flaming and trolling around TWC and this came to the table, he actually asked me a few times to release him from his chains IIRC.

    Upon his release at one point, he was being the subject of the Curia , where the citizens were debating about his faith and somehow (since my ever opposing opinion of the Curia) I felt that it's just not fair to talk about someone and throw around accusations without the presence of the person of the subject.
    so I came up with the Curia-Passport, bypassing all discussion or opinion of the Staff at the time, which was one of the cataclyst to the demise of the Staff to the point , where the rebellion has begun on TWC.

    The other problem was, when I -bypassed the Staff meeting again- made some Drakonian new laws in the Mudpit, which was about getting a much harder punishment to those Mudpit debaters, who held a TWC title (citizen/opifex etc) who would act against the ToS, because my belief was that "they should know better" and should be the leading members who show example to new members, how to debate without flames and trolling.

    This also added oil to the fire, which was already brewing in the Staff forums, I was bypassing my promises of sharing and discussing decisions with the staff members. My main complaint was, that any time anyone in staff brought up an issue it stalled for weeks before reaching agreement, or just stalled until eternity, never coming to an agreement and release. I was frustrated about this , since any time someone brought up a subject, it basically meant, that it won't be solved for at least weeks, especially if staff members were missing or didn't log on for days.

    So the balance of power, wasn't a balance of power at all and I guess staff viewed me someone who just held the rest of the staff as some sort of formality status, but otherwise I would use my "veto power" quite frequently or simply just being a dictator.

    So I guess, after the letter I have received (from secret passages) that was handled around to selected staff members, the TWC staff was brewing a coupe against me. Couple of members were not invited, I guess they felt, they were closely assosiated with me or perhaps favored my type of administration.

    One day I log on and I see a thread about "Archer, please resign"- which was first shocking, and at the time I was taking to Belisarus on msn, he was equally shocked by it.
    First I thought it was a joke, but further reading and chatting with "lynching mob" , proved that they were quite serious. After a little thinking and some backing of my followers, I decided that I'm gonna dump my entire staff, who conspired against me.
    It was quick and professional, since I mastered the admin-cp after spending hours upon hours for years, and the next move was to hire previous staff members, who would help me out until things normalize again.

    The reason I felt betrayed was, more had to do, that I hired these guys and while I wasn't part of the ownership of ON, I was placed in power by the owners of TWC, so I felt my spot here is something undebatable and I could only be replaced by the owners of the place if they wish so, but not by regular forum members.

    I had the "old guards" coming back on TWC staff, including Spartan and Wild Bill Kelso, who although helped me out while in the transitional staff, he didn't favor my move of dumping my disgrunteld staff members.

    Then the riots begun. The disgruntled and removed staff begun to create a havoc on TWC, starting in the Curia and spreading the riots to the Questions/Suggestions area and who knows where else..wearing a blacked out avatar and attacking me and the new staff relentlessly. No hard feelings now..., well organized raids on the forums and turning those against me who had no idea what exatcly happened and why..


    ...to be continued to the final chapter, when the forum meltdown was imminent and I was called back to administer the forum , while the removed staff (not by me) was rioting again..

  6. #66

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    get to the part where you ruthlessly slay two of Garb's sons archer!

    edit: I'm really getting into this storytelling thing...
    Last edited by gigagaia; November 12, 2008 at 10:29 PM.
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  7. #67

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by gigagaia View Post
    get to the part where you ruthlessly slay two of Garb's sons archer!

    edit: I'm really getting into this storytelling thing...
    That's like the end of the story Giga...can't jump around on the timeline here you know

  8. #68

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    right right, you know children and young ones get, we get anxious for the good part!
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  9. #69

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    This is the good part. This should be published on TWC Wiki btw, once it's finished, imho.

  10. #70

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Better yet (kinda...) compiled into a Scriptorium article...

    Nice tale, HA. It makes me feel very small and new.

  11. #71
    imb39's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher View Post
    One day I log on and I see a thread about "Archer, please resign"- which was first shocking, and at the time I was taking to Belisarus on msn, he was equally shocked by it.

    First I thought it was a joke, but further reading and chatting with "lynching mob" , proved that they were quite serious. After a little thinking and some backing of my followers, I decided that I'm gonna dump my entire staff, who conspired against me.
    Was it an act any of us were proud of? No, probably not. We all recognised that you put a lot into the site. Burt you have alluded to the problems within Staff and the lack of communication was a fatal flaw within the organisation. Also, there was so much politiking - not necessarily your fault (being owned by ON meant it was inevitable) but you most certainly doing it as much as anyone else, at least you listened to a select few. I don't think, ofr example we chatted much on MSN. Compare that with the amount you chatted with others. Of course I am not terribly charismatic, so that didn't help, I suppose.

    It was quick and professional, since I mastered the admin-cp after spending hours upon hours for years, and the next move was to hire previous staff members, who would help me out until things normalize again.
    It was an excellent move. I thought we'd lost once I saw the names crop up.

    The reason I felt betrayed was, more had to do, that I hired these guys and while I wasn't part of the ownership of ON, I was placed in power by the owners of TWC, so I felt my spot here is something undebatable and I could only be replaced by the owners of the place if they wish so, but not by regular forum members.
    I have sympathy - but I don't think you helped the situation with the way you listened to people.

    I had the "old guards" coming back on TWC staff, including Spartan and Wild Bill Kelso, who although helped me out while in the transitional staff, he didn't favor my move of dumping my disgrunteld staff members.
    If so many were disgruntled, did you ask yourself, 'why?' for example, I ended up being the primary named person to the resignation thread but I had no history or desire to replace you (no ability, either). Having said that, it was just a matter of time before the aforementioned H&G acted before the situation resolved itself.

    Then the riots begun. The disgruntled and removed staff begun to create a havoc on TWC, starting in the Curia and spreading the riots to the Questions/Suggestions area and who knows where else..wearing a blacked out avatar and attacking me and the new staff relentlessly. No hard feelings now..., well organized raids on the forums and turning those against me who had no idea what exatcly happened and why..
    Not true. I don't recall creating havoc. Maybe one or two did, but the fired staff did not orchestrate any riots save arguing our points through as best we could. I had, at one point, decided to leave the site. Would have saved me a lot of money too!!!


    ...to be continued to the final chapter, when the forum meltdown was imminent and I was called back to administer the forum , while the removed staff (not by me) was rioting again..
    My recollections are slightly different.

  12. #72
    Wild Bill Kelso's Avatar Protist Slayer
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    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Sorry but I need to add my thoughts on this issue:

    My name was on the original list of people who wanted Archer to resign. The fact that I was brought into staff was a little bit more complicated than described by Archer. I can't remember how many hours I spent on MSN being involved in convos between the "Archer clique" and the "rebels" (95%many of whom where not even part of the original dispute). I think I lost a substantial part of my remiaining hair that night. I do remember the sheer shock of the "rebels" when I went into the rebel MSN convo and told them that there was a power sharing agreement in effect (How I wish I had that MSN convo saved!). Silverguard in particular couldn't believe how this old timer who ran the RPG he was playing had somehow helped bring about an end to the conflict. I remember Archer was to take the Modding side and I was to take the General discussion/curial side of things. This was the only time my name got to be RED. Also, Sulla had come back briefly to assist in things. Thankfully my plan worked, which was only to take control of things briefly while everyone cooled down over the next few days, so I never had to live up to my grand promises. That is until Besim came along which I am sure Archer will comment on.

    Some Relevant Links:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64902
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64953
    Last edited by Wild Bill Kelso; November 13, 2008 at 05:27 PM.
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  13. #73
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher View Post
    So here I am finally getting root-admin access (c-panel ec) after finally convince Mithras (Network Admin and co-owner of TWC) that I won't mess around with it, but I need it if I want to implement new banners to the front page etc..
    To nitpick, you never had root access, only cPanel access (ability to give out FTP access and so on, but only for TWC, not other sites on the server). ON eventually gave me root WHM access, which isn't real root access either (but still a much higher level of access, control over all sites on the server plus the ability to do things like restart server processes). None of us had real root access until after the site's sale, IIRC.
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  14. #74

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher View Post
    Then the riots begun. The disgruntled and removed staff begun to create a havoc on TWC, starting in the Curia and spreading the riots to the Questions/Suggestions area and who knows where else..wearing a blacked out avatar and attacking me and the new staff relentlessly. No hard feelings now..., well organized raids on the forums and turning those against me who had no idea what exatcly happened and why..
    October 2006 (Staff Rebellion) was quite civilised really and confined mainly to msn, staff and a bit in the curia (I couldn't find any in the Q&S), I don't think there were any 'riots', lots of disgruntled ex-staff perhaps though...

    I got bored and started looking through some examples ( ):

    Recent Events and the Aftermath (WBK)
    Discussion of Staff Appointments (Prof)
    A proposal to WBK for the initiation of a public dialogue (Garb)
    Wouldn't you agree (Soren)

    The Besim episode and then the HG episode however...

    ...to be continued to the final chapter, when the forum meltdown was imminent and I was called back to administer the forum , while the removed staff (not by me) was rioting again..
    Looking forward to it...

  15. #75

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Simetrical View Post
    To nitpick, you never had root access, only cPanel access (ability to give out FTP access and so on, but only for TWC, not other sites on the server). ON eventually gave me root WHM access, which isn't real root access either (but still a much higher level of access, control over all sites on the server plus the ability to do things like restart server processes). None of us had real root access until after the site's sale, IIRC.
    Which was probably less access than I had as a Network Administrator* during that period of time. Ogre needed someone to fix the frontpage for the Zoo Admin site and upgrade vBulletin for the Star Wars site and eventually TWC during one of Mithras's MIAs. I was able to do the former two but then Archer removed all my access during the coup (failing I guess to notice I was a super administrator or perhaps not caring since I had signed the resignation letter) before I could upgrade TWC. Shortly after that, I pushed for Simetrical to be brought back as an admin and then went inactive for a while (I had only returned for a mere 24 hours before the H&G as Imperator debacle).

    The reason I say probably is Ogre just provided me with all his information instead of actually creating accounts for me, so whatever Ogre had, I had. I did not want to overstep my bounds and only used the access I needed which wasn't much. I got the impression that Ogre was not all that technically inclined and that Mithras handled most everything. Incidentally, as a last resort, I was going to completely remove all your access Archer and restore the rest of the staff but I thought a peaceful resolution was in the best interest of all.

    Edit: I should say de facto Network Administrator. I declined the actual title sense my goals were primarily aligned with updating TWC, not helping Ogre on a permanent basis but I was willing to (and did until the october incident) update and fix as many sites of his as I could.
    Last edited by Mímirswell; November 14, 2008 at 05:30 PM.

  16. #76

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
    October 2006 (Staff Rebellion) was quite civilised really and confined mainly to msn, staff and a bit in the curia (I couldn't find any in the Q&S), I don't think there were any 'riots', lots of disgruntled ex-staff perhaps though...

    I got bored and started looking through some examples ( ):

    Recent Events and the Aftermath (WBK)
    Discussion of Staff Appointments (Prof)
    A proposal to WBK for the initiation of a public dialogue (Garb)
    Wouldn't you agree (Soren)

    The Besim episode and then the HG episode however...



    Looking forward to it...
    you know that proposal thread was initially my thread JP...
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64953
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  17. #77
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    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC ... well chosen title ... reminds me to FRRE ... a mod project (where i'm a long time member of), that handles the struggling roleplay of the Roman leaders .

    Archer, were you inspired by the mod project?

    However, one little comment from me, a member who also saw all the things that happened since the 2005s (hack, exodus, the downfall times with little traffic, the little rise again since BI came out, the coming back ie. since RTR forum went down, the TWC drama/revolution, the promising new-start):

    While i saw also a necessary reason for a re-launch/re-start for TWC in the said times of 2006 (i also was a mod leader who said, if the things don't calm we would leave the site with the ChivTW project besides a lot other projects and members of especially the modding community), i never understood the heated bashing of a member (Archer), who did that muuuuch for the site inall the years before. I even did put at least one time a clear comment at these times into a certain thread where Archer was disputed by so many, just to think about things twice, especially what were the motives of Archer to act as he acted and also to see first his merits he gained for TWC.

    So, all and all, these events, should be a clear lesson for all who were involved in any kind of conspiracies andthelike, and it is to hope that something like that won't ever happen again.

    Archer, my best greetings to you, and everybody of the old guards ... you should become "brothers" again, and take a drink together and laugh about it now in a story-telling kind
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  18. #78
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    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    I am hungry for another update!
    I might write my one of these myself when I am an "oldie"- about some things which will surprise you all.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher View Post
    Then I have met Honor&Glory, who is - one hell of a controversial figure- to say the least about him , but trust me guys, on chat he is just a common kid with a lot of ambition, but on the forums....well, many of you know the story if not, I'm sure there is someone who can help to update you with more info about him.
    Yep, HG was fun to mess around with on MSN, but his style of debate turned people off, and his decisions as a moderator weren't the best, and usually just caused more controversy. His downward spiral was pretty painful to watch.

    Then the riots begun. The disgruntled and removed staff begun to create a havoc on TWC, starting in the Curia and spreading the riots to the Questions/Suggestions area and who knows where else..wearing a blacked out avatar and attacking me and the new staff relentlessly. No hard feelings now..., well organized raids on the forums and turning those against me who had no idea what exatcly happened and why..
    I don't remember it like that. I think the only staffer that tried to cause much havoc publicly was Perikles, and he stopped after being asked by "us". I remember having the phrase "The is a staff issue, keep it in staff" drilled into my head before the letter was sent.

    October 2006 (Staff Rebellion) was quite civilised really and confined mainly to msn, staff and a bit in the curia (I couldn't find any in the Q&S), I don't think there were any 'riots', lots of disgruntled ex-staff perhaps though...
    Am I the only one that hates that "staff rebellion" label? Makes it sound so dramatic. It was a petition of grievances more than anything else.
    Last edited by Evariste; November 23, 2008 at 09:07 AM.

  20. #80

    Default Re: The Rise and Fall of the Last Emperor of TWC

    Quote Originally Posted by Evariste View Post
    I don't remember it like that. I think the only staffer that tried to cause much havoc publicly was Perikles, and he stopped after being asked by "us". I remember having the phrase "The is a staff issue, keep it in staff" drilled into my head before the letter was sent.
    Er, no. Not on this occasion anyway.

    Am I the only one that hates that "staff rebellion" label? Makes it sound so dramatic. It was a petition of grievances more than anything else.
    Call it the 'Staff's list of petty grievances to high imperator Archer, October 2006' then.

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