Unit Variety.

[Ozy]

Im a little bit concerned about that to be honest. I played a game called Imperial Glory a time ago, it was set around the time of this game, and one thing i didn't really like was the fact that every infantry unit seemed to be the same type of soldier with a different uniform color.

Do you think there wont be any exotic units and soldiers for each faction will be simple replicas of the others? Or, what different units do you think will be added?

I know the new ships will be a great new type of units to use, but i hope they don't let battles on a field behind.

[Destraex]

I will list the variety I can see shortly, you won't be dissappointed

Grenadiers - with grenades usually a hatchet and the biggest blokes in the unit. These guys had to have special hats to allow the throwing of grenades. THey were also the assault infantry given the most dangerous jobs. Quickly gaining a reputation for elite status upon their introduction.
Pikemen - yes thats right
Grenadier Guards - over 6ft tall to join
Light Companies - all light infantry skirmishers attached to line infantry
Riflemen - if they existed in the 17thC
Line infantry - fusiliers
Medieval Style infantry - the Russian army was revolutionised half way through this period and still had mellee weapons for the most part for some of the period
Highlanders Jacobite- the sword charge with in addition a lot of staff weapons and
claymores.
highlanders British- with the kilt and uniform + dirk\sword
Militia infantry - raised from local towns
Marines - the brits with their top hats
Sailors - off the ships
Marine Sharpshooters - from the topsails]
Officers - swords
Flag bearers - the colours, don't lose these
Seargeants - to protect the colours.... a bloddy great halberd.
Messangers
Trumpeters
Drummers
Jaegers - German light infantry/sharpshooters
Sappers
Forlorn Hope

THere is a bloody great variety of uniform and colour in this period but its the tactics that will be a joy.. I mean in medieval lets face it most of the time we are using tactics that trained proffessional armies employ... in the 18c at least you know the men are capable of those complex moves like turning on a pivot and forming square. In medieval2 the main tactic should be advance in three lines and hope you win. Communications were never better than that most of the time once engaged.

Now bear in mind that unit quality and uniform in this period often was determined by the commander - who usually raised the unit himself - and how he trained and financed the unit. Thus the uniforms varied and so would the morale from unit to unit. I hope they impliment this so that you have to know your unit captains and whether they are weak or not.

There were also many types of Musket in the era, matchlock, flintlock etc and infantry armed with these types will be less or more effective. I also read somewhere that muskets were actually more accurate in this era than in Napoleonic era due to better quality of manufacture
Also bear in mind that the bayonet did not appear early and when it did it was hard to add and remove and stopped the musket firing until they invented the socket bayonet. The scots massacred the English because of this in a few battles

The other thing is I am hoping they simulate entire regiments, I mean a standard regiment was usually made of
1 light Company
1 Grenadier\Assault Company
3-4 Line Infantry Companys
Attached Artillery and Command elements
Reserve Company

A Regiment was generally 1000 men and the battalions 100 or so men iirc, so total war should be able to handle 2-3 regiments per army in a tactical on map battle.

If they impliment this and the formations a Regiment was capable of AND the Colonel commanding its traits it will be awesome.

Essentially instead of weapon variety you get uniform variety and colour.... the uniforms of the day being some of the most spectacular in history. Its also an age where the armies of nations were more equal and independent than the Napoleonic period which is I think why they chose it.

Another thing I would like is for the simulation of troops arriving on the field over time, in many battles the whole point was once engaged by accident how to buildtroops up effectively if your enemy was strung out on the roads. Atm this is abstracted in the total war series but Take Command does it well.

P.S. Imperial Glory was EDITED!!! Cossacks2 was ok but Empires will be the best of them all, perhaps except Take Command 2nd Manassass?

Do not double post, edit your posts instead.~Emp Meg

[Atticus]

you think there will be units firing air guns? they were (back then) generally used for sniping because they made no noise or produced no smoke.

from wiki:

Air guns represent the oldest pneumatic technology having existed since the 15th century. At that time, they presented compelling advantages over the more primitive firearms of the day. For example, air guns could be fired in wet weather (unlike matchlocks) and with greater rapidity than the muzzle-loading guns of the period. Moreover, they were quieter than a firearm of similar caliber had no muzzle flash and were completely smokeless, not disclosing the shooter's position on firing. Black powder guns of the 18th and 19th century produced huge volumes of dense smoke on firing, giving air rifles an advantage over them. One might also assume that the sound of an air gun would have been inaudible against the noise of a pitched battle.

For general usage air guns were not a real challenge to the dominant position of powder weapons. They were expensive, delicate, air reservoirs could burst explosively and the valves were not well sealed and slowly leaked pressure. Historical accounts mention common soldiers were often unable to handle the complex guns, this seems logical in an age where the average peasant recruit had never encountered a machine more complex than a horse-drawn cart. People who had any experience with mechanical devices were few and far between. The guns of the period were crude and required little skill by the infantryman.

During this period France, Austria and other nations had special sniper detachments using air rifles. The Austrian 1780 model was named "Windbüchse" (literally "wind rifle") in German. The guns were developed in 1778 or 1779 by the Tyrolese watchmaker, mechanic and gunsmith Bartholomäus Girandoni (1744-1799) and are occasionally referred to as "Girandoni air guns" in literature (the name is occasionally spelled "Girandony"; "Giradoni" or "Girardoni". The Windbüchse (or the Girandoni Air Rifle) was about 4 ft (1.2 m) long and weighed 10 pounds (4.5 kg), which was about the same size and mass as a conventional musket of the time. The air reservoir was a removable, club-shaped. The Windbüchse carried twenty .51" (13 mm) lead balls in a tubular magazine. A skilled shooter could unload one magazine in about thirty seconds, which was a fearsome rate of fire compared to the slower muzzle loaders of the period. A shot from this air gun could penetrate a one-inch wooden board at a hundred paces, an effect roughly equal to that of a modern 9 mm or .45" caliber.

[Novusordo]

they used airguns all the way back then? wait.... they actually had air guns back then??

wow.

[Atticus]

they used airguns all the way back then? wait.... they actually had air guns back then??

wow.

hell yeah, they did a lot of damage to napoleon's troops when he invaded austria. in fact, air gun snipers were the only austrian troops he had executed when the austrian army surrendered. because they were such a tricky enemy.

[Destraex]

some grenadiers... don't lose those colours

[Destraex]

Atticus have you got any idea how many Air Gunners as a percentage existed. Or are we talking a tiny total of 50 or so men?

[Atticus]

Atticus have you got any idea how many Air Gunners as a percentage existed. Or are we talking a tiny total of 50 or so men?

i'm afraid so. it's not that they had thousands of them, but more like a few hundred. air guns were very delicate/expensive weapons and not everyone was allowed to touch them. they were a sort of elite force, like modern day snipers and recon.

[Destraex]

ok cool. So not likely to be represented in total war perhaps

[Reiver]

The other thing is I am hoping they simulate entire regiments, I mean a standard regiment was usually made of
1 light Company
1 Grenadier\Assault Company
3-4 Line Infantry Companys
Attached Artillery and Command elements
Reserve Company

A Regiment was generally 1000 men and the battalions 100 or so men iirc, so total war should be able to handle 2-3 regiments per army in a tactical on map battle.

A regiment was usually made up of one or more battalions numbering (at full strength) 800 men although usually around 600-650. If a regiment had more than one battalion they would be numbered eg. 1st battalion, 2nd battalion etc. so for example the 2nd battalion of the 33rd regiment would be designated: 2/33rd.
Contradicting what you said, during the relevant time period, a battalion was more likely made up of 10 companies. The Grenadier company on the right and the light comapany on the left with the line companies in the centre. I can't remember but i'm sure that due to losses incurred through sickness and enemy action the number of line companies would shrink.
The artillery and reserve comapny thing i'm not familiar with at all. Certainly not in the British army. The battalions usually would serve in a brigade which may have some artillery or cavalry attached and they would serve in a division.

I'd imagine that the game will work with companies as the size of units rather than having battalions that fragment. This would mean that light and grenadier companies will probably be seperate units. Also, as Destraex observed there is a large technological devlopment over this time frame which will add to the variety of units.
That said it's still the case that the variety in weapons won't be massive as the vast majority will be using a musket. There is quite a variation in types of muskets with firing mechanisms, length, quality and type of bayonet all potentially affecting their stats.

[Magas of Cyrene]

I'm looking forward to Jacobite Highlanders.

[Destraex]

True Reiver, however if you look at Medieval2 there is also a lack of much other than sword based units. I still enjoy that.
I will be coming back to this thread to clean and neaten soon

[Kinjo]

Arab Units

One thing I would like to see is the ability for a unit to shoot on the move. This tactic was used by the Arabs. The shoots would not be very effective or concentrated but would make these units unique from the others. It would be more like a mod running at you with a shoot here and there from pistols and rifles but a majority of the unit would have melee weapons.

[Higgings]

Many nations did have speciel units, but ofcause troops like grenadier and lineinfantry will be in most nations payroll.

Type´s in European armys as remeber (many more whom I forgot ).

Light infantry.
Jæger/Jeger infantry.
Rifles infantry.
Line infantry.
Grenadier infantry.
Highlanders.
Pike infantry.

Hussars.
Mountet Jeger.
Lancers.
Ulands.
Cossacks.
Light Dragoons.
Dragoons.
Criussiers.
Carabiners.
Mountet Grenadiers.

And a hell lot of artillery.

In front of much of this troops you can have Guard or millist (freikorps ect) in front.
UK had Mountet Guards Grenadiers, but DK did not.
So the army rooster will should not be 100% a like, plus the uniforms of the diffrent nations was not a like.

Any way, I a looking forward to this game alot.

[krippp]

ok cool. So not likely to be represented in total war perhaps

hehe... Head Hurlers and Cannon Elephants, anyone?

[Roman14]

Im a little bit concerned about that to be honest. I played a game called Imperial Glory a time ago, it was set around the time of this game, and one thing i didn't really like was the fact that every infantry unit seemed to be the same type of soldier with a different uniform color.

Imperial glory was a cheap game made by a seprate company to answer total war fans call to have a game with guns.Its nothing like total war games, total war has a large varity of units unique to each faction.

[Empress Meg]

See here for a thread about the possible units TWC members have thought up. It's fairly impressive.

Types of ships.

Elite units and will they still exist in ETW?

I hope some of these help.

Devoirs The Empress

[Gyldenløve]

they should include the swedish Drabants (They had a bulletproof vest).

[Condottiere SOG]

Anyone remember that grenadier in "Last of the Mohicans" with the grenade launcher? A large barreled carbine that fired a single grenade, you know, just before they decimated the French line of musketeers in by the fort at night. Hope CA did not miss that scene. They will hear about it from me, if they did.

Everyone talks about their favorite units or leave every other period except the Napoleonic.

How about;

Invalid Infantry
invalid Grenadiers
Militia Musketeers
Militia Light Infantry
Militia Grenadiers
National Guardsmen
Sepoys
Fencibles
Volunteers
Summer Guard Orders
Highland Companies or Independent(Free) Companies
Partisans
Partei-gangers

[stradar1]

In empire total war i Beleave there is gana be a Large amount of Unit types.Unlike in rome and Mtw2 Empire total war will have way! more Units Types.