Page 11 of 18 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112131415161718 LastLast
Results 201 to 220 of 343

Thread: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

  1. #201
    christof139's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    4,890

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    I think the Georgians are sabotaged. All of the merchants I build aare 0 or minus efficiency, and they get killed by other merchants almost as soon as I send them out to trade. Seems the Georgian archery is also sabotaged as the guy before this post explained.

    Chris

  2. #202

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Who was in charge of balancing the factions out? I would just like to extend my sympathies. You have the worst job in the world. Your task is never done as players will always whine and complain about this or that.

    Now get back to work...:

  3. #203
    anaztazioch's Avatar Centenarius
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kraków, Poland
    Posts
    859

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by Thema'zandaar View Post
    Who was in charge of balancing the factions out? I would just like to extend my sympathies. You have the worst job in the world. Your task is never done as players will always whine and complain about this or that.

    Now get back to work...:
    thats what is the job of a fan. Play on nerves and never show apritiation.

  4. #204

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    ok, but I do have to agree that Georgian bodyguard are useless, they are probably the worst ones in the mod, while it was probably opposite in melee. And please, remove that horse archer ability from them, historically they were heavy lancers who after charge whould change to swords or maces (means AP).And decisive charge was their main weapon!

  5. #205
    christof139's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    4,890

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Georgian merchants are sabotaged. I enjoy this mod and do appreciate the work put into it.

    However, you shouldn't ask for help in fixing bugs and pointing out oddities if you do not wish these things to be pointed out to correct errors and bugs in the moc.

    Chris

  6. #206

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by anaztazioch View Post
    thats what is the job of a fan. Play on nerves and never show apritiation.
    Apritation...is that some kind of fruit?:hmmm:

  7. #207
    Takverely's Avatar Biarchus
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tbilisi, Georgia
    Posts
    646

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    yes you are right. Georgian bodyguard is useless. when my kings bodyguard(36 men) fought to ERE bodyguard(16 men), they killed my 29 men. they are much more stronger than Georgian bodyguards:hmmm: and in Gerogia Kings bodyguards never hold bows. you could have bodyguards with bows for Great seljuks or other countries but not for Georgia. i would not say anithing if these arrows were effective agains enemy bodyguards but they are useless. they cannot kill enemie bodyguards with arrows


  8. #208

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by takverely View Post
    yes you are right. Georgian bodyguard is useless. when my kings bodyguard(36 men) fought to ERE bodyguard(16 men), they killed my 29 men. they are much more stronger than Georgian bodyguards:hmmm: and in Gerogia Kings bodyguards never hold bows. you could have bodyguards with bows for Great seljuks or other countries but not for Georgia. i would not say anithing if these arrows were effective agains enemy bodyguards but they are useless. they cannot kill enemie bodyguards with arrows
    Try it as the Cumans, or the Omani, or the Sindhi, and Georgia's Nobles will seem supermen by comparison. In 1.05 a Sindhi Bodyguard is I believe weaker than a Tier 4 Eristavi Lancer, with only 2 hp to it's name. I'd be surprised if they could even take down a regular unit, let alone a bodyguard.

    We are addressing the issue of certain bodyguards being too powerful and other's not. 1.5 is taking a long time in part because the way combat works is going under a very large, thorough change.

    I have seen nothing in my own research that somehow decided that Georgian Bodyguards always wielded the lance, especially when I have seen comments that the bow was held in increasing importance given the influence and threat posed by the Seljuks and Cumans. Example being: http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8...ane60zsqb9.jpg Historically the likely scenario is that Seljuk, Cuman, Georgian, and Persian Elites would be wielding a lance, a bow, a sword, and an axe or mace. We can't represent more than 2 weapons in a single unit, so we have to make gameplay decisions

    We have no wish to turn this mod into a Red vs Blu, so bodyguards will be different in quality and purpose. Georgian General can't defeat an Roman General Head to head? Find another way around it. Roman Spearmen can't defeat a Georgian Spearmen head to head? Find another way around it.

    The idea that we somehow sabotaged any faction, well, it's so silly I actually can't take at offense at the idea. This mod is biased for and against Georgians, Armenians, Turks, Kurds, Persians, Tajiks, Afghans, Sindhis, Punjabis, Rajputs, the French, Blacks, Arabs, and Mongols. :hmmm:
    Last edited by Ahiga; June 21, 2008 at 03:07 AM.

  9. #209
    anaztazioch's Avatar Centenarius
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kraków, Poland
    Posts
    859

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    I have seen nothing in my own research that somehow decided that Georgian Bodyguards always wielded the lance, especially when I have seen comments that the bow was held in increasing importance given the influence and threat posed by the Seljuks and Cumans
    There are many "elite" units that used eigther lance or bows, dependeing on foe they fight.
    Polish Hussars for instance are known as heavy lancers of devastating power. However, in combat with Mongol/Tatars/Lithuania bow was their main weapon.

  10. #210
    Takverely's Avatar Biarchus
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tbilisi, Georgia
    Posts
    646

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    yes but i dont like that 600 kartlian spearmen can not kill them(16 men), even their general is in the middle of 600spearmen, he can go away easyly, in fact its quite impossible to kill ERE General. they also were men and not gods:hmmm:

    i dont say that Georgian bodyguard must be stronger, i think that other countries bodyguards must be weaker not weaker than Georgian bodyguard but not so strong as ERE bodyguards


  11. #211

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    I agree with Takverely, there's nothing to do about red vs. blue thing. It's just the plain fact, that Georgian generals did not yield bows, is this that difficult to change? I also khow that BC is not historically oriented, but I also know that it's one of the most accurate ones in released ones.
    So question: IS THAT SO PROBLEMATIC TO CHANGE THEIR WEAPON FROM RANGED TO MELEE?!
    It's something we would like to ask, we'd just say thanks if team could change it. Otherwise one can do whatever he wants with generals unit, you could design it to fly and shoot canonfire like a medieval helicopter, but we don't want to find a way around it.
    After all, people create mods, because they think something better and more accurate could be done than vanilla, but as soon as they do create a mod, they find it insulting to hear about any request to have a modification. Is this refusal to change the unit ability just an ego thing? We accept the fact that you are great modders, but this means that you are not only great painters, but also you are great changers, so please - do change!

  12. #212

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Interesting, my experience so far with the georgian BG is nothing but positive. Those guys are like dvor only tougher, extremely versatile being able to torment units from afar with the bow and moving in later to slaughter any thats left. Oh just before you charge, do turn off auto fire so it actually hurts. Personally i find range BG much better then the normal lancer variety . Also do take into consideration that the roman body guards are technically the
    M1A2 of BC so they should worth more then their salt against other units in a fight
    Last edited by frontier-auxilia; June 21, 2008 at 11:06 AM.

  13. #213
    Tadzreuli's Avatar Chevalier Blanche
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Rouen, Françe
    Posts
    2,109

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    I have seen nothing in my own research that somehow decided that Georgian Bodyguards always wielded the lance, especially when I have seen comments that the bow was held in increasing importance given the influence and threat posed by the Seljuks and Cumans.
    yes I agree , Ahiga. Georgians nobles, as usually were highly trained by the archery..................... Marco Pollo, when he traveled in Georgia in XIII c., wrote about king David VII Ulu (or David VI Narin), that he was excellent archer and his bodyguard was equiped by bows too, also his horses carried horse armours.


    We have no wish to turn this mod into a Red vs Blu, so bodyguards will be different in quality and purpose. Georgian General can't defeat an Roman General Head to head? Find another way around it. Roman Spearmen can't defeat a Georgian Spearmen head to head? Find another way around it.
    yes, I agree

    Georgian bodyguard aren't useless and weak, but Byzantian general is very , unrealistic strong, but this my personal opinion...

    also the Mongols cavalry are "overkill" , unrealistic, I think



    and in Gerogia Kings bodyguards never hold bows.
    sorry, but I don't agree, because Georgians fought against Seljuks, Khazars, Ottomans, Persians, they were especially horsemen archers and this situation demanded from Georgians to adapt tactics of conducting fights for tactics of the opponents.

    king David IV Agmashenebeli (the Re-Builder ) made own Monaspa Guard with universal soldiers, who had excellent hold of all science of martial arts, they could fight with bows, swords, maces or lances equally perfectly ! this abillity made Monaspa guard very dangeurous soldiers in the whole near east, most of well-known battles of Georgians was won by the elite forces Moanspa or Tadzreuli havy cavalry.
    Last edited by Tadzreuli; June 21, 2008 at 11:12 AM.

  14. #214

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    I want to make a point here. You cannot have historical accuracy and balanced factions co-exist. Some factions were weaker than others. Some units were weaker than others. Quite honestly, I don't like the idea of "balancing". I would rather have accurate representation and prefer to use strategy to beat the odds. But I understand that for the game to appeal to a bigger audience, balancing is necessary.

    What is not necessary is to take individual units and compare them head on. An army is a team and all the different units who have different roles must work together to ensure victory. Roman General beats Georgian General? So what? Use the other units in your army. And if you can't win, retreat! And next time, bring two generals and swarm him! Use strategy!

    Remember, David beat Goliath, but he did it when Goliath was busy laughing in disbelief.

  15. #215
    Tadzreuli's Avatar Chevalier Blanche
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Rouen, Françe
    Posts
    2,109

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Roman General beats Georgian General? So what? Use the other units in your army. And if you can't win, retreat! And next time, bring two generals and swarm him! Use strategy!
    you are right !

  16. #216
    christof139's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    4,890

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Ahha!!! I finally got some decent Georgian merchants!!! But I tell you, I had an unbroken string of real bad ones that were always getting knocked off at the beginning of the games and it was driving me nuts or nuttier.

    Now I will try and take Derbent, as I already have Ani, but a one full stack Byzantine Army is sitting outside Ani so I have to contiune to build up troop producing buildings and keep large garrisons in Ani and 2-other cities to the north and south of it, a big strain on resources. Later, Georgia will have to take trebizond, and it is not good to rile/upset the Byzantines early in the game. I have an alliance with the Kipchaks and I hope they leave me alone.

    Great mod all considered!!!

    Chris

  17. #217
    teh.frickin.pope's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Smalltown USA
    Posts
    1,129

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by iksterminator View Post
    So question: IS THAT SO PROBLEMATIC TO CHANGE THEIR WEAPON FROM RANGED TO MELEE?!
    After all, people create mods, because they think something better and more accurate could be done than vanilla, but as soon as they do create a mod, they find it insulting to hear about any request to have a modification. Is this refusal to change the unit ability just an ego thing?

    I would ask you to be a bit more courteous with requests, these fine fellows have poured a lot of effort into making Broken Crescent an amazing mod that people will enjoy, but at the end of the day, any decision is theirs to make. If you would like a change, ask nicely; if they decide not to change it, asking in all caps/repeatedly probably will not do you any good, and might reduce the chances of your wishes coming to fruition.

    I am not trying to pick on you iksterminator, but at the end of the day you have to remember that everything, 100-bloody-percent of this mod has been made for free, by a small group of gentlemen wanting others to enjoy and learn about this fascinating period of history; I consider BC a favor that the team has done for me, the community, and the world(because anything that sparks curiosity and search for knowledge-especially of other cultures is damn well needed), and who likes to hassle people giving them favors?


    [/rant]

    Broken Crescent, Its Frickin Awesome! Sig by Atterdag +rep
    Stop Uwe Boll!

  18. #218
    Takverely's Avatar Biarchus
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tbilisi, Georgia
    Posts
    646

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Tadzreuli you say that MONASPA used lances, bows, swords and almost everything. why do you prefer bows to lances? if Monasapas were so strong and could use everything, why are they so weak now? they cannot beat ERE, Great Seljuk, turkish, armenian bodyguards. if they were the most dengerous warriors in the whole east, why cannt thay beat nearby countries bodyguards?

    Themazandaar if your strongest units(at least 2 unit) cannot beat enemies one unit what can you do, i like history and strategies too. when 3 or 4 men is in the middle of 600 spearmen, what strategy do you want? they can go away, what can you do else? strategy is strategy but when your best units cannt fight and they rout what can you do? I dont understand. ERE generals had superswords super armour or what? I like this mod and i want it was better thats why i post here
    Last edited by Takverely; June 22, 2008 at 02:38 AM.


  19. #219

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    Quote Originally Posted by takverely View Post
    Tadzreuli you say that MONASPA used lances, bows, swords and almost everything. why do you prefer bows to lances?
    Why do you prefer Lances to Bows?

    Let me point out your own words:
    and in Gerogia Kings bodyguards never hold bows.
    i would not say anithing if these arrows were effective agains enemy bodyguards but they are useless. they cannot kill enemie bodyguards with arrows
    You first say that they would never have used bows, but then you tell us you never would have said anything if they had been more lethal. So from your own account it's not the authenticity of their weaponry but rather the lethality of them that is the issue. You wouldn't have raised it if their arrows had been more lethal. They were not, so you bring up the case that your belief is that the bodyguards only used lances.

    if they were the most dengerous warriors in the whole east
    They weren't. Nobody was.

    Reality is not an RTS where we can decide who was the very best soldier. The unstoppable Roman legions ended up getting trounced by enemies in fair fights. The glorious army of the British Empire was bloodied by a bunch of Afghan Hillmen. Spartans were annihilated by Thebes. These are not statistics or values which can be ranked like a fantasy sports league but rather living men.

    When Tadz says that about Monaspa, or I say that Daylami were amongst the best infantry of the Middle East, it's a generalization, meant to convey the fighting abilities of those particular warriors as being exemplary. The best we can do is point to spectacular instances of their success or terrible shortcomings of their defeats and use it to illustrate the effectiveness or lack thereof of certain warriors. If we believe testaments to the fighting prowess of a certain warrior, then every single warrior in history was the best ever.

    Georgia packs some incredibly powerful troops from the get go, featuring Khevsurs which in quality resemble Tier 4 or 5 troops of other factions at tier 2. They are the only Christian group which gets a heavy horse archer, the only group which gets heavy hybrid foot archers. They are balanced in their lack of AP weaponry as well as in other factors.

    We are balancing stats for a Mod, not for a single faction or for a single unit. All bodyguards, all units, are going to experience balancing changes in 1.5. Expect a different experience on the battlefield in the next release. We are not however going to change our mod based on personal preferences for units - I wanted Sindh to get better armored units and be more powerful, but I had to compromise that wish for the team's vision of the mod.
    Last edited by Ahiga; June 22, 2008 at 03:01 AM.

  20. #220
    Takverely's Avatar Biarchus
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tbilisi, Georgia
    Posts
    646

    Default Re: FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

    this mod is not based on history. i didnt say right when i told that Georgian bodyguards never used bows and Tadzreuli is right. but this bows are useless, they cannt kill enemy bodyguards. and why do they need these bows? they can kill only peasents with them. and you said that only Georgians had heavyly armoured horse archers. they are monaspa horse archers, yes its very good but not effective, i fought with 80 monaspoa horsearcher against 50 mongol and when monaspas fired all their arrows only 4 or 5 mongols were died. and they crashed my monaspa in malee attack

    even i dont like that Georgians have so many kinds of horsearchers. KOJ has 7 or 8 kinds of malee kavalry and Georgia only 3. Georgia has enough missile cavalry and i think Georgian bodyguard should be malee.

    you cannt say that Seljuk bodyguards didnt hold bows, but they hold lances in this game. i think it would better if georgian bodyguard is malee


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •