FACTION PREVIEW: The Kingdom of Georgia

[Faris ad Din]

Nice. What was the military structure like in Georgia? Was it feudalism, with vassals owing loyalty and military service to lords, like in Europe? Were there prominent clans or families that sent their detachments?

And do we have any volunteers for Georgian translators to help?

[Tail End Charlie]

Aren't there several georgians who frequent these boards, ones with good english?

[iksterminator]

I'll do translation staff. But please e-mail me all the staff u need to be translated. Also, there are some minor edits to be done in texts already in BC 1.05, so if anybody could email me text files for those, I'll fix em too
Or just tell me where are those text files in MTW BC directories.

[Takverely]

there were different kinds of military structures in different parts of georgia. mainly there were "Eristavs"(Lords) but in some mountainous region there also were free people who could select their leader like "khevisbers" or "khevistavs" and they desided with the people, send troops or not. in late period, kings began to separate their kingdoms into "sadroshoebi"(flags). these "sadroshoebi" were like regions which had to sent troops for king, each "sadrosho"(region) had its own flag. "sadroshoebi" had numbers: first, second etc.

I think you should add some light swordman, which would cost at about 600-650 gold in the middleages there were peasent warriors in Georgia who came from villages, their armour was like "kartlian spearmens" but they held round(not very big or very small) shields and straight swords and not like the swords which are held by "khevsurs".

[Tadzreuli]

I think you should add some light swordman, which would cost at about 600-650 gold in the middleages there were peasent warriors in Georgia who came from villages, their armour was like "kartlian spearmens" but they held round(not very big or very small) shields and straight swords and not like the swords which are held by "khevsurs".

khesvsur swordsmen already are light swordsmen, but they now cost very much expensive - 750 gold, same as Tadzreuli (heavy) swordsmen. I think would be better if Khevsurs will cost more cheaply, around 450-550 gold.

[Miraj]

Khevsur swordsmen aren't light swordsmen, they are heavy swordsmen covered in chain-mail and a metal helm, metal shield. Its perhaps one of the best early inf units any faction gets in BC.

[Takverely]

yes it is a good idea but would they be as strong as they are now??

I think khevsurs are strong infantry, even they are stronger than latin knights, but they are expensive for early period, i think we need cheaper swordman, khevsurs should stay on their place

[Lupu]

They cost the same as tadzrueli, but have only lower stats, at everything...

[teh.frickin.pope]

I believe prices and stats are being readjusted for 1.5 and also, I'm pretty sure you can get slavic swordsmen around Georgia for cheap.

[Tadzreuli]

1. when the Georgian unit roster was created by Alpha Delta, I forgot one important unit for Georgi - Tadzreuli elite cavalry and hope in future (v 1.5 or 2.0 ) it will be in Georgian roster:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

2. also, I agree with Khevsurs and Tadzreuli swordsmens questions... Khevsurs should be cheaper than Tadzreuli swordsmen.

3. in Georgia should be recruit Viking auxiliaries ( battle of Sasireti, in 1042 AD - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sasireti ).

[AlphaDelta]

Tadz,

A Tadzreuli heavy cav unit as you have posted would basically be the same if not better than the Monaspa HA's:

Half-cat barded horse.
Composite bow
Heavy armour

The only differences are the round shield which doesn't effect stats more than 1 point, and an AP axe, which would over-all make them better than Monaspas

I agree khevsurs should be cheaper than Tadzreuli, but not by much.

Cheers

[Takverely]

i think it would better if Georgian swordman would have round shields and straight swords and also it would better if aznauri cavalry would have round shields. i see that there are no heavy malee cavalry which has horse armour,
but we know that georgians had horse armour since King Vakhtang Gorgasali( V century) we should read more about history

[Tadzreuli]

The only differences are the round shield which doesn't effect stats more than 1 point, and an AP axe, which would over-all make them better than Monaspas

yes, i know this my fall, when I forgot to add Tadzreuli elite (axemen) cavalry om early before development of mod ... I'm sorry for all Georgians fans.

i think it would better if Georgian swordman would have round shields and straight swords

round shields yes maybe, but in period Tamar the Great and Giorgi III (1156-1213) Georgians used mix of straights and scimitar swords. this shows in most of Georgian medieval miniatures.

i see that there are no heavy malee cavalry which has horse armour,
but we know that georgians had horse armour since King Vakhtang Gorgasali( V century) we should read more about history

yeas, i agree, but .... I told about this already . Tadzreuli heavy elite cavalry (axemen) , with deferent helmets and round shields had half-cat barded horse.

in V cent. during period Vakhtang Gorgasali, heavy katarafract cavalry used in most of east armies and in Georgian army too, but in XII-XIV c. heavy armoured cavalry not used by Georgians, only half barded horse.

[iksterminator]

What about adding "mstovari" melee units? These were elite fighter spy units who would go in avangard of the army and whould have unique abilities as hide anywhere and 2 hitpoints. They should use bows and shortswords and be in padded armour for better movement to be fast moveing.

[Takverely]

thank you tadzreuli for all answers I like tadzreuli elite cavalry very much and i think their shields are perfect than these normandian shields. i like round shields very much i will be glad if tadz elit cavalry would have strong malee attack

And i think it would not be a good idea to add "mstovari" units, they were spies and did not move like armies. for avangard we should use meskhs, they really were in the avangard(cinambrdzolebi iyvnen). they should be heavyly armoured infantry and stronger than MONASPA, because MONASPA infantry is not the face of Georgian power. king DAVIT IV won battle of DIDGORI(1121) with 55000 warriors against 300000 enemies, seljuks leader was IL-GAZI, the star of JIHAD, who crashed the principal of antioq ROJER in 1119 and captured antioq. so we must have stronger infantry and cavalry than others. in 1202 Georgians won the battle of BASIANI agains the sultan of RUM RUKN-AD-DIN, at this battle Georgians avangard were MESKHS and their leaders were SHALVA and IVANE AKHALTSIKHELS. they were the avangard in the battle of GARNISI(1225) too.

I think so and if you have better ideas, i will be glad to listen to them

[Tadzreuli]

"mstovari" - spy was not army unit ! mstovari could be very different profession men, such merchant, monk, diplomat or someone else... so, I think "mstovari" must not be not in Georgian unit roster.

Meskhian infantry and cavalry was same as most feudal and state soldiers. Meskheti is one of them region of Georgia and not so different such Imereti or Kakheti.

Khevsurs had different military traditions than in other georgian regions , also Kartlian spearmens was known since antiquity period and this is reason why "Khevsurs" and "Kartlians" are in Georgian unit roster.

in Georgian unit roster are three tipe of units:

1. state units (metsikhovne spearmen and archer)



2. feudal and national units (tadzreuli, eristavi, aznauri, khevsurs, kartlian spearmen, svanian archers)

3. royal units (all monaspa units)

[iksterminator]

Ok, Mstovari dismissed, although Davit Aghmashenebeli had strong units of mstovari, who would often engage and defeat muslim forces, but as these people are my friends, I'm not gonna argue.

[Takverely]

forgive me for my Georgian (tu xalxi xart amixsenit ra, sul momigrovda 4 reputaciis rgoli da aq marto erti chans, rogor movumato? madlob)

[Takverely]

and what did you decide? will you add TADZREULI ELIT CAVALRY? and will be khevsur warriors price less?

[anaztazioch]

Wow, Georgian bodyguard is really WORTHLESS. Cannot hit crap with bow, has no pircing, and its charge is below light cavalry... I can capture Aoi (i think the city is called) with 1 sipahi/quapuluk, ERE bodyguard, caliph guard/bodyguard, Armenian bodyguard, but not the Georgian...