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Thread: Renaissance Era

  1. #1

    Icon14 Renaissance Era

    Present Late Era for SV begins in 1311. It is about 140 years ( 280 turns! ) before the use of arquebuse and the " official " end of Middle Age ( fall of Constantinople and end of the Hundred Years War ). That is 181 years ( 362 turns! ) before the discovery of the New World.

    A careful player would need a lot less than 200 turns to reach vistory conditions, but that will last much more than 200 playing hours, which will take some real life monthes for most of us.

    Thus there is almost no chance to play that great mod with others units than those used when beginning. Nevertheless vanilla M2TW runs until 1530, allowing the use of fire arms, Renaissance units and New World countries.

    Is it not possible to supply a Later Era or Renaissance mod for SV, which would start in 1453?
    Last edited by DaVinci; August 28, 2007 at 04:30 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    There are plans to add a Renaissance campaign to SV in the future.


    Chivalry II TW : The Sicilian Vespers - The Multi-Era Mod Project (MIITW/Kingdoms)
    Chivalry I TW - The Original Medieval Total Conversion Mod (BI 1.6 Or RTW 1.5)
    Under the Patronage of Atterdag

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    Also rember that Late Era Campaign gives the opportunity to play with High Era units since campaign start and you can also use bombards within the first 10 years of play if you build the correct structures.

    And Middle Ages' ending is controversal: some say 1453, some 1492, some even later dates, putting it at the end of 17th Century (start of industrialization).

    BTW It's good to have a Renaissance Era Campaign, to cover all possible mod scenarios
    Last edited by |Lorre|; August 25, 2007 at 08:15 AM.
    - Lorre -





    The Sicilian Vespers - MIITW Mods For Late, High, Early Era And Dark Age Campaigns

  4. #4

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    Quote Originally Posted by |Lorre| View Post
    Also rember that Late Era Campaign gives the opportunity to play with High Era units since campaign start and you can also use bombards within the first 10 years of play if you build the correct structures.

    And Middle Ages' ending is controversal: some say 1453, some 1492, some even later dates, putting it at the end of 17th Century (start of industrialization).

    BTW It's good to have a Renaissance Era Campaign, to cover all possible mod scenarios

    The Renaissance campaign will probably start some time between 1409 and 1442.


    Chivalry II TW : The Sicilian Vespers - The Multi-Era Mod Project (MIITW/Kingdoms)
    Chivalry I TW - The Original Medieval Total Conversion Mod (BI 1.6 Or RTW 1.5)
    Under the Patronage of Atterdag

  5. #5

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    Quote Originally Posted by |Lorre| View Post
    Also rember that Late Era Campaign gives the opportunity to play with High Era units since campaign start and you can also use bombards within the first 10 years of play if you build the correct structures.
    Its a joke?

    Bombards were used in Europ from 1320, and are definitively not weapons from Renassance Era. Other units like coulevrins, hand guns and pikemen did not appear until more than 100 years later. It means much more than 200 play turns...

    And Middle Ages' ending is controversal: some say 1453, some 1492, some even later dates, putting it at the end of 17th Century (start of industrialization).
    Disputing about tags is useless. Which is important is that around 1450 the whole world knew a lot of sudden evolutions in political, military, religious, technical, artistic and social matters. In M2TW, that must lead to a completely divergent way to play strategy and battles.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    @Resdulac

    I think you misunderstood Lorre. Bombards are available from the start of Late (1311), you just have to build the appropriate buildings.

    The advanced gundpowder units are not available until the later half of the 1300's, when they historically become available.


    Chivalry II TW : The Sicilian Vespers - The Multi-Era Mod Project (MIITW/Kingdoms)
    Chivalry I TW - The Original Medieval Total Conversion Mod (BI 1.6 Or RTW 1.5)
    Under the Patronage of Atterdag

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    Quote Originally Posted by SicilianVespers View Post
    There are plans to add a Renaissance campaign to SV in the future.
    Taking for granted that a Renaissance Era for M2TW must be interesting to play, and that i did not found any offer for such a mod, i would like to try to make one ( note: Im a retired programmer and an amateur historian ). I choose to use SV because its the best one among those several ( 6 or 7 ) I played with.

    To begin with I gather some documentation on that period and made yesterday a quick modification of Late Era SV in order to accomodate England and France to their respective states at the beginning of 1453. I tested ut and it runs gently enough. My main concern is that I could not build a correct relatives tree for the royal families, partly because Total War does not allow to mark as heir a non-adult character. Also I did not find yet how to emulate a civil conflict as the " 2 Roses War ".

    Thus, I have to questions:

    1- Do you give me permission to use your work as a base to make a Renaissance Era mod?

    2- Can I expect some help when I will encounter some difficulties?

    Thanks in advance.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resdulac View Post
    Taking for granted that a Renaissance Era for M2TW must be interesting to play, and that i did not found any offer for such a mod, i would like to try to make one ( note: Im a retired programmer and an amateur historian ). I choose to use SV because its the best one among those several ( 6 or 7 ) I played with.

    To begin with I gather some documentation on that period and made yesterday a quick modification of Late Era SV in order to accomodate England and France to their respective states at the beginning of 1453. I tested ut and it runs gently enough. My main concern is that I could not build a correct relatives tree for the royal families, partly because Total War does not allow to mark as heir a non-adult character. Also I did not find yet how to emulate a civil conflict as the " 2 Roses War ".

    Thus, I have to questions:

    1- Do you give me permission to use your work as a base to make a Renaissance Era mod?

    2- Can I expect some help when I will encounter some difficulties?

    Thanks in advance.
    There is no need to, I am already working on it.

    It was going to be an easter egg, but I was planning on including a beta Renaissance era in the next version.

    I was planning on starting it betweem 1400 and 1409.

    Any later would complicate it too much, as certain factions would have to be removed, etc...


    Chivalry II TW : The Sicilian Vespers - The Multi-Era Mod Project (MIITW/Kingdoms)
    Chivalry I TW - The Original Medieval Total Conversion Mod (BI 1.6 Or RTW 1.5)
    Under the Patronage of Atterdag

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    Quote Originally Posted by SicilianVespers;2114023I think you misunderstood Lorre. Bombards [B
    are[/b] available from the start of Late (1311)
    Evidendly! I did not say that bombards were not available during the XIV° century ( I use then extensively ). I said that they were not weapons of the Renaissance Era, because they appeared much sooner and disappeared at the beginning of this era.
    Last edited by Resdulac; August 28, 2007 at 11:14 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why not a later era game?

    Quote Originally Posted by SicilianVespers View Post
    I was planning on starting it betweem 1400 and 1409. Any later would complicate it too much, as certain factions would have to be removed, etc...
    It is precisely that later period which is interesting, rightly because that leads to a complete redeployment of almost all components of the game.

    If you start at the beginning of the century, the world after 1450 will be only the continuation of the Middle Age. After 100 turns, an average player must have lead his country to a almost complete domination over Europe. Even the new weapons will not overthrow the battles because their availability will be gradual, due to the cost and delays of thier factories.

    An outbreak in 1453 create the realistic challenge to handle countries suddenly facing new threats and new opportunities: Ottomans and Golden Horde invasions reaching Central Europe, Spain and HRE evolutions, Popes balancing between Avignon and Rome, religious troubles, England and France turning their attention elsewhere than to their fratricidal dispute (for England after a long civil war), new units everywhere simultaneously available, and soon the New World discovery.

    In vanilla M2TW as in any mod beginning very sooner than that event, the player will then be strong enough to be the only one able to grab the newly discovered lands, and that will not be difficult. But if no nation is already dominating the others, that will leave a chance for a interesting competition, and perhaps even a native nation survival.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    @Resdulac
    If you want to help, I could use assistance with the faction leaders and heirs.

    It would save me alot of time, if I had a pre-made list for around 1409.


    Chivalry II TW : The Sicilian Vespers - The Multi-Era Mod Project (MIITW/Kingdoms)
    Chivalry I TW - The Original Medieval Total Conversion Mod (BI 1.6 Or RTW 1.5)
    Under the Patronage of Atterdag

  12. #12

    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    Of course we have to trigger the "World is Round" event from the start...
    - Lorre -





    The Sicilian Vespers - MIITW Mods For Late, High, Early Era And Dark Age Campaigns

  13. #13

    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    Quote Originally Posted by SicilianVespers View Post
    @Resdulac
    If you want to help, I could use assistance with the faction leaders and heirs.

    It would save me alot of time, if I had a pre-made list for around 1409.
    So you disapprove my project to make a truly Renaissance Era mod derived from yours. It looks strange when considering that yourself are using components extracted from others works. And firstly all mods are based on copyrighted by CA materials.

    Thus I will go on my way to build that mod covering the post-Middle-Age period.

    For the names of leaders and relatives, you can find itemized lists in Wikipedia.

  14. #14
    DaVinci's Avatar TW Modder 2005-2016
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    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Resdulac View Post
    So you disapprove my project to make a truly Renaissance Era mod derived from yours. It looks strange when considering that yourself are using components extracted from others works. And firstly all mods are based on copyrighted by CA materials.

    Thus I will go on my way to build that mod covering the post-Middle-Age period.

    For the names of leaders and relatives, you can find itemized lists in Wikipedia.
    There is a clear difference between using minimods (only some certain files changed of certain departments as ie. map, traits and ancies etc.) for a major mod project or using a major mod for a new major mod idea. (As well consider, all the minimod components are changed in SV, plus the minimod makers got or get vice versa help from SV).
    Also and especially if the major mod has announced for some time ago a Renaissance mod campaign.

    I actually can 't understand your argumentation, other than that, that you are new to the TW modding scene.

    To this, the SV mod started as a rather personal Late Era mod by SicilianVespers with added minimod components right after the M2 release. In the meantime, it became a major M2 modification, especially regarding for our future work, look into the general info topic for a short overview, please, for more info.

    Your decision to make a Renaissance mod on M2 though is correct here, and i wish you luck with it
    But, alternative you are invited to join our team, as you are showing a lot of ambitions, but then first as beta teammember

    Last edited by DaVinci; August 29, 2007 at 12:59 PM.
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    Iirc., already 2013 i spoke of "Renaissance of Fascism", it was accurate.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post

    Your decision to make a Renaissance mod on M2 though is correct here, and i wish you luck with it
    But, alternative you are invited to join our team, as you are showing a lot of ambitions, but then first as beta teammember

    When I signed for Beta of SV, they told me I would have travelled around the world... now I wear a rusty helmet, and trust only my battle axe ...

    Hey Resdulac, come on, don't get angry, SV is one of the most kind person I ever met on the net (while DV is a ball-breaker, but a good one ), He did not tell you to quit your ideas, He asked to have a cooperation, but you seemed to want to push it alone... it's your choice, but please, don't be upset for that..... it's a game in the end...

    Looking forward to see your ideas about a renaissance mod!
    - Lorre -





    The Sicilian Vespers - MIITW Mods For Late, High, Early Era And Dark Age Campaigns

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    Quote Originally Posted by |Lorre| View Post
    When I signed for Beta of SV, they told me I would have travelled around the world... now I wear a rusty helmet, and trust only my battle axe ...
    (...)
    We had to lure you into the SV army ... now you are trapped, aren't you?
    #Anthropocene #not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA #Deforestation #Plastic Emission #The Blob #Uninhabitable Earth #Savest Place On Earth #AMOC #ICAN #MIT study "Falsehoods Win" #Engineers of Chaos
    #"there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth.
    Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
    Iirc., already 2013 i spoke of "Renaissance of Fascism", it was accurate.
    #"Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
    Any chance for this exam? Very low, the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
    #My Modding #The Witcher 3: Lore Friendly Tweaks (LFT)
    #End, A diary of the Third World War (A.-A. Guha, 1983) - now, it started on 24th February 2022.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    We had to lure you into the SV army ... now you are trapped, aren't you?
    Maybe...

    ... but I always want to start to play in 1453!

    So, I consider helping you to build your mod, then deriving from it a " mini-mod " shaped to my liking.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    I believe there is a Rennaisance Total War mod, I believe you could collaborate with them for your Rennaisance ambitions.
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  19. #19

    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    I found that mod:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=316
    I downloaded and played it during 80 turns, reaching year 1572.

    It is version2.75, interesting enough, but somewhat unfinished. You begin in 1493 with almost the same undevelopped settlements as in vanilla game, but with arquebusiers and Househod knights. Most cannons are almost immediately available. Thus arising military buildings affords almost no new units. They can only be upgraded. Pace is one turn/one year.

    Anyway, it is attractive to play with guns and advanced units.

    They say a version 3 is soon to be displayed.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Renaissance Era

    Hi there, I'm not sure if this is the right thread to post this, but I didnt' want to start a new thread just for this.

    I'm playing as Napolis and have reached year 1352, built cannon makers and alchemist labs, but still can only recruit bombards and nothing else. I have only had one 'event' as I remember, about the discovery of gunpowder.
    Am I doing something wrong with the launcher, because I only select 'L' for late... there are some numbers corresponding to 'events' lower down in the launcher, but they are all 'Early Era _______' so I didn't think they applied to late campaign...

    I'd appreciate it if someone could explain if I'm doing something wrong, or if gunpowder units are not supposed to be available yet, thats cool too.

    Thanks.

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