Ok!Ok! Its about the turks!

[Mehmed II]

Just wanted to share it with you guys, this, first of all, is a ``what if`` question. First of all, let me give you a historical background:

It has been known that the first turkish tribe that s been roaming around the steppes under the banner of Islam was The Karluks. Karluks are the ones that spread the religion among the Turks and they re known to be founders of the first Turko-Islamic nation that lasted 3-4 centuries. (9th century- 13th century).

Now, I ask you this, what if Christianity was first introduced to the Karluks and say that the Karluks accepted it as their main religion.

First, I would like to say that there were (and in fact still are) turks that accepted Christianity (such as the bulgars and some parts of Pechenegs) But due to their scarce population, they were easily assimilated.

What if a tribes like Ghaznavids, Seljuks or Ottomans, who were always major powers in their reigns, were christians in the first place?

No crusades? A very early end to Islamic Domination? Perhaps wars between Byzantinians and ``asian savages who declared themselves the real protectors of what was left of Rome`` ? Good relations with the pope?

RING! Let the debates begin...

[Dreamer]

The Seljuks if they had become christain would not of sparked the crusades, but i suspect the wars with byzantine would of continued as they did have expansionists tendancies it appears though history (they attacked other muslims then they would attack other christains) And probably the ottoman empire would still have been created though in a radicaly different form.

[aves]

Since eventually Christians and Jews were attacked more often than Muslims during the Crusades, I would think that they would have enventually happened, just with Eastern Christians being declared heretics and the Holy Land being freed from them *pope*

[Arcaliea]

The Seijuks and later Turks might have continued their anti-Byzantine policy anyway, lured by its wealth and land, by declaring itself Catholic and thus the Byzantines heretic. Then they might have tried alliances and conjoint attacks with other western powers. Another possibility is, of course, that it allied with the Byzantines after a partition of Asia Minor, then proceeded to serve as a useful buffer state for the Byzantine Empire. Probably no Crusades, certainly, either way.

[scipiusromanus]

Originally posted by aves@Nov 8 2004, 06:18 PM
I would think that they would have enventually happened, just with Eastern Christians being declared heretics and the Holy Land being freed from them *pope*

agreed. Religion is merely a pretext, never a real motive, for war. Once the war starts rolling it can be a powerful thing to mobilize the masses, but I don't think any leader of any significant state would be as naive as to start a war just for religion's sake. "Nobody is driven to war by ignorance and nobody who thinks he can gain anything from it is deterred by fear".

That said, I believe the pope would find a silly excuse such as "eastern christians are not christian because they take baths and water is an evil thing" and would call upon the "real" christians to strip them of their lands.

[Ornlu]

I believe, that they just like the Mongols would become muslim anyway after conquering the Middle East. Arab and Persian influence was huge on the Turks.

[Scrappy Jenks]

I think that the real motivation behind the Pope calling for a Crusade is that he was sick of European Christians killing each other and needed a foreign target for all that aggression. Therefore, he would have taken any excuse to start the crusades, such as listneing to a crazy hermit named Peter who claimed he was overcharged in the Holy Land. History is full of this tactic, just look at the Arab conquests under Abu Bakr (I think it was Abu Bakr...Mehmed?)

[Zuwxiv]

The ottoman empire was able to succeed because of religious toleration (to a point) and the janaissaries (spelling?). The Janaissaires were basicly a tax on conquered christian cities. They would give several boys to the empire... the boys would be converted, and then either used as soldiers (the stupid ones) or commanders/administrators (the smart ones). This worked great for conquered and conqueror, but required an expanding empire. Expanding towards christians.

If the Turks were christian, they would logically have turned towards the muslims for conquering. If they were successful, the Ottoman empire could have been very large, but been an empire of the east. Hard to tell what would have happened from there, though.

[Zuwxiv]

:blush Double post.... This forum hates me. :p