Captain Mua'wiya?

[MasterAdnin]

I was just playing as the Moors when I came across Captain Mua'wiya. Why did CA put Mua'wiya as a Muslim name? For those who do not know, Mua'wiya was the son of the Prophet's(pbuh) greatest enemy, Abu Suffiyan. Mua'wiya grew up to be the greatest enemy of Imam Ali(as), the Prophets(pbuh) cousin and son-in-law, and Mua'wiya's son Yazid went on to become Imam Hussain's(as), he's the son of Ali(as), greatest enemy. So why would any Muslim be named Mua'wiya?

Salaam,
Adnan

[Farnan]

Mua'wiya is only considered evil on the Shi'ite side, on the Sunni Side he is not evil and is the founder of the Ummayyad Dynasty.

Reading a little more, he is considered a rebel and not religious leader, but is not as vilified as in the Shi'ite view.

[MasterAdnin]

Mua'wiya is only considered evil on the Shi'ite side, on the Sunni Side he is not evil and is the founder of the Ummayyad Dynasty.

Yes, but the Ummayyad Dynasty was very oppressive and did not follow Islam at all. That is why Imam Hussain(pbuh) and his family were slaughtered, because they were trying to keep Islam as it should be.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Farnan]

Yes, but the Ummayyad Dynasty was very oppressive and did not follow Islam at all. That is why Imam Hussain(pbuh) and his family were slaughtered, because they were trying to keep Islam as it should be.

As is the Shi'ite belief. In the Sunni belief he was an usurper and the Ummayyad Dynasty was corrupt, but he must be respected as he was a companion of Mohhammed. Remember though you as a Shi'ite may find naming a child Mua'wiya rediculous, a Sunni may not.

[MasterAdnin]

As is the Shi'ite belief. In the Sunni belief he was an usurper and the Ummayyad Dynasty was corrupt, but he must be respected as he was a companion of Mohhammed. Remember though you as a Shi'ite may find naming a child Mua'wiya rediculous, a Sunni may not.

True, but Mua'wiya was never a Companion of the Prophet(pbuh). In fact, the Prophet(pbuh) told his Ummah to never let Abu Sufyan or a descendant of Abu Sufyan become Caliph.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Farnan]

True, but Mua'wiya was never a Companion of the Prophet(pbuh). In fact, the Prophet(pbuh) told his Ummah to never let Abu Sufyan or a descendant of Abu Sufyan become Caliph.

Salaam,
Adnan

According to Sunni belief he was. I don't know which group was right or wrong in this respect, but you should realise you both get different versions of how history unfolded in this early era.

Using Wiki as a quick source:

Sunni view of Muawiyah

Sunni historians see him not as a religious ruler but a rebel, although he was a companion of the prophet, but still not worthy of respect as he fought the khalifa of the time Ali. They say that if there was a fifth rightly guided caliph it would have been Hasan but muawiyah wanted to usurp the throne from him.

Allah, make him guided, a guider, and guide people through him. [2]
He is also favorably depicted in a hadith from Bukhari which reads:

..Muawiya who was really the best of the two men said to him, "O 'Amr! If these killed those and those killed these, who would be left with me for the jobs of the public, who would be left with me for their women, who would be left with me for their children?" Then Muawiya sent two Quraishi men from the tribe of 'Abd-i-Shams called 'Abdur Rahman bin Sumura and Abdullah bin 'Amir bin Kuraiz to Al-Hasan saying to them, "Go to this man (i.e. Al-Hasan) and negotiate peace with him and talk and appeal to him." So, they went to Al-Hasan and talked and appealed to him to accept peace..." [3]

Sunni scholars rationalize that Hasan's willingness to abandon the caliphate to Muawiya suggests that Hasan did in fact think Muawiya an apostate, renegade, and hypocrite. They argue that Hasan did so with reasons such as for the sake of peace and not causing Fitnah, he gave it to muawiyah also for the reason that he had little support and muawiyah conquered most of the cities in the empire and forced them into bayah. Hasan told Muawiyah not to make the khilafah into a monarch but he went against it by giving the khilafah to his son Yazid without a shura, sunni scholars agree that those acts of muawiyah are against islam, muawiyah openly defied and broke the promise of hasan al-mujtaba while at the same time not allowing a shura to elect a new leader of islam, nevertheless he was a companion of the prophet and must be respected. [4]

Sunnis discourage criticizing Muawiya's character and rule, observing his status as a companion of Prophet Muhammad, even though he did go against many rules of the Qu'ran while at the same time making his followers curse Amir ul Mumineen Ali Ibn Abi Talib. [5]

[MasterAdnin]

According to Sunni belief he was. I don't know which group was right or wrong in this respect, but you should realise you both get different versions of how history unfolded in this early era.

Using Wiki as a quick source:

So then the Sunni's believe that a hypocrite and murderer of the Prophet's(pbuh) Family(pbut) should be respected? Not only that, they called Mua'wiya the greater of the two men? He was a hypocrite, murderer, and evil person. He deserves no respect and no one who calls themselves Muslims should respect a man such as him. He disregarded all the rules of Islam and calls himself a Muslim? It only furthers my beliefs that Sunni's respect men like him to spite Shias.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Sher Khan]

I'm seriously considering moving this to the VV...


Just because there was an Abu Sufyan, it didn't stop someone being named Sufyan later on. A name is just a name, and Arab names are still used regardless of Sunni or Shi'a prejudice.


Edit: Alright, off to the VV with you!

[MasterAdnin]

Do as you see fit Sher Khan, you are the moderator. I actually was thinking that this should be moved to the Ethnos section, but your choice.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Farnan]

So then the Sunni's believe that a hypocrite and murderer of the Prophet's(pbuh) Family(pbut) should be respected? Not only that, they called Mua'wiya the greater of the two men? He was a hypocrite, murderer, and evil person. He deserves no respect and no one who calls themselves Muslims should respect a man such as him. He disregarded all the rules of Islam and calls himself a Muslim? It only furthers my beliefs that Sunni's respect men like him to spite Shias.

Mua'wiya was not a good man. However, Sunnis (at least according to that) believe he was not a good man also and a usurper, however his status as a Companion of the prophet (according to the Court Historians they follow) deserves the respect. Much like you may respect the position of Grand Ayatollah and respect those who achieve it for achieving it, but not like what they do. For example do you respect Grand Ayatollah Khnomenai? But from reading what you write I can assume you do not like what he has done.

[MasterAdnin]

Mua'wiya was not a good man. However, Sunnis (at least according to that) believe he was not a good man also and a usurper, however his status as a Companion of the prophet (according to the Court Historians they follow) deserves the respect. Much like you may respect the position of Grand Ayatollah and respect those who achieve it for achieving it, but not like what they do. For example do you respect Grand Ayatollah Khnomenai? But from reading what you write I can assume you do not like what he has done.

I believe that no one should be respected due to their ranking. I feel that a person should be respected only by their actions because it is actions which determine how people view you and actions show your true inner self.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Mig el Pig]

I believe that no one should be respected due to their ranking. I feel that a person should be respected only by their actions because it is actions which determine how people view you and actions show your true inner self.

Salaam,
Adnan

then why do you worship the family of the prophet?

[General A. Skywalker]

Well, it simply sounds Muslim. That's all.

[MasterAdnin]

then why do you worship the family of the prophet?

Who says we worship them? We view them as the only rightful people to guide and lead the Muslim population. I could write a basic outline of what Imamat is. It is up to you, but we in no way worship them.

Salaam,
Adnan

[jankren]

Well, it simply sounds Muslim. That's all.

Yeah, just like Robert sounds Christian.

Anyway, I fail to see the point of this thread. Muawiya is just a common Arabic name which has always been used by Arab parents for their children since God knows when.

Peace,

[Farnan]

Well, it simply sounds Muslim. That's all.

What is this language Muslim? I've never heard of it.

[MasterAdnin]

Anyway, I fail to see the point of this thread. Muawiya is just a common Arabic name which has always been used by Arab parents for their children since God knows when.

True, but when the captain is yelling "infidel," every five seconds, or "sultan," or "apostate," or "for Islam," you tend to think he's Muslim, yet I fail to see how a Muslim would be named Mua'wiya.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Cluny the Scourge]

Who said anything about "respecting" anyone? Did Creative Assembly? Does the game say "Captain Mua'wiya, your officer, greatly admired by all his men and fellows, whether they be Sunni or Shia, because he's so damned great and so was the Sunni who opposed the Caliphate of Mohammed's son-in-law in the 7th century, so long ago that it somehow still matters a damn to anyone in the Muslim world at all for no apparent reason?"

It's a name. Get a grip on yourself.

[jankren]

True, but when the captain is yelling "infidel," every five seconds, or "sultan," or "apostate," or "for Islam," you tend to think he's Muslim, yet I fail to see how a Muslim would be named Mua'wiya.

Salaam,
Adnan

Everybody in this world knows how evil Adolf Hitler was but it does not stop people all over Europe from naming their children "Adolf".

[Sher Khan]

I think more than one Arab was named Mua'wiya in the past. Muslim Arabs at that.