Which Factions Do You Want For The Mod?

[Icefrisco]

I have no authority in what factions will be chosen but I wanted people to express which factions they might want in the future.

The factions I would like are Aragon, Novgorod, Burgundy, and Sweden. I want them for many reasons but mainly because they would fill empty parts of the map.

[VirusITA]

I'll work on that.. And i hope that socal_infidel, gigantus and whoever want them too..
I hope to add: The Teutonic Order, Reino de Aragon, Repubblica di Pisa, The Irish, The Welsh, The Flemish, The Crusader States (or Armenia)


Something like that:

[IIyamaXP]

hmmm... Wasn't Sweden founded in the 14th Century (or at least the first true statement this kingdom existed) ?!? :?

I think that the Lituanian pagans civilization would be nice, as they played quite a interesting role between 12th and 14th century, when teutonic order could convert all pagans to christianity and when local nobles took the power back from the teutonic order...

Burgondy could also be nice but I though they were conquered by the Carolingiens by early 9th century ?

For the Teutonic order, it would be nice to chose where you wish to put the kommandatur in the HRR provinces but with quite a high cost... Teutonic order can't be unlinked to the HRR, in my opinion. Or you could also have Hospitaliers and Templars as independant factions

[billydilly]

I agree with Aragon, Novgorod and Sweden, I would also like to have Armenia, Georgia and another muslim faction, or two.

And what about the Danishmend Turks in northern Anatolia? They were at least as powerful as the Seldjuks and were their main rivals for control in Asia Minor. It isn't right to call all the turkish faction 'Seldjuks', it would be better to only call them 'Turks', or have two factions of turks. And we shouldn't forget the Caliph of Bagdad.

I'm not so sure about Burgundy, wasn't it always a duchy under the French King (more or less)?

[Socal_infidel]

Who's Icefrisco? And what did he do with Arfrsico?!?!?

Seriously, I don't want to reveal the other factions I have planned until I've some work to show for them (namely new units), but I will say that the discussion here has hit on two of the ones I'd like to add after I finish with Kingdom of Georgia. Which ones? I'm not saying!

Oh, and I'm certainly glad to see the discussion! Shows you all really care about my humble little mod!

Cheers!

[IIyamaXP]

hmmm... Wasn't Sweden founded in the 14th Century (or at least the first true statement this kingdom existed) ?!? :?

I think that the Lituanian pagans civilization would be nice, as they played quite a interesting role between 12th and 14th century, when teutonic order could convert all pagans to christianity and when local nobles took the power back from the teutonic order...

Burgondy could also be nice but I though they were conquered by the Carolingiens by early 9th century ?

For the Teutonic order, it would be nice to chose where you wish to put the kommandatur in the HRR provinces but with quite a high cost... Teutonic order can't be unlinked to the HRR, in my opinion. Or you could also have Hospitaliers and Templars as independant factions

Damn, Burgundy != Burgondes... :-/ Strange translation from French to English, I though "Duché de Bourgogne" would rather be translated as "Duchy of Bourgogne"...

Regarding Sweden before 14th Century, it was a very unconsitant power, with several internal struggles, even if the country in itself already existed...

Flanders would be interesting as they were at the root of Holland...

[VirusITA]

In those years the very important missing factions were Armenia (most of all), Wales (Cymru)(as important as Scotland) and The County of Flanders. El Reino de Aragòn became very important 300 years ago (since 1300 were simple a spanish region..).

Nothing about Sweden (never existed!), Lithuania and so: you want them just to fill an hole in the map


All imho

[IIyamaXP]

Hmmm... As Far As I Know, Lithuania still existed as a pure pagan kingdom... I'll crosscheck with my historical books and revert

Just to mention, in the late 12th century, Teutonic Order fought against Lithuanian people, the only thing I have to dig out is to know if they were structured enough to be considered as a valuable faction.

And for Swedes, I was right ^^

Regarding Burgundy, I verified the translation and it is Bourgogne, which was included in the Franc empire during Charlemagne's early reign and was dismantled with the help of the Papacy.

[Nico]

I think the more factions the better,

a few suggestions would be:
- flanders and Bohemia (to stop the Hre from growing too much)
- Aragorn
- Another faction in the north east, my first option would be Novgorod
- also maybe lithuania
in other areas i think possibilities could be:
- Kingdom of jerusalem because many time there europena factions never seem to conquer the holy land terrritories in my campaings.
- Also either bulgaria or serbia in the balkans ( byzantiumn has too many cities for me)
- Sultanate of Rum in anatolia (other posibilities Armenia, georgia)
- And a final suggestion that i dont know if its historical bu i think it would be good for gameplay is another muslim faction in tunis and that area of north africa (so that it bothers sicily a bit as hey always take north african cities, and it also would hold the moors so the concentrate in iberia.

lol I know im asking for loads

Cheers

PS: It would be really cool if someone would try and add some factions as a fan mod as i think social and gigantus are pretty busy as it is.

[Icefrisco]

Actually Sweden wouldnt add much to this mod and it wasnt important at the mods time period. The same goes for Lithuania who didnt even exist for hundreds of years after the start of the mod.

Jerusalem could be really cool. Either it could be emerging or it could be scripted to emerge from a crusading army.

In those years the very important missing factions were Armenia (most of all), Wales (Cymru)(as important as Scotland) and The County of Flanders. El Reino de Aragòn became very important 300 years ago (since 1300 were simple a spanish region..).

Nothing about Sweden (never existed!), Lithuania and so: you want them just to fill an hole in the map


All imho

Armenia was more of a economic power and it is represented well by being a minor faction. In this mod Armenia would last a second. Its surrounded by Muslim lands. The entire campaign would be converting the locals. I doubt any of us would find that fun.... Though that doesnt mean Armenia is boring it jsut doesnt fit this mod.

Wales? I am not going to even ask......

Flanders was economically important not militarily. Wouldnt it seem wierd if Flanders was to start conquering parts of France? That would make this mod look unhistorical.

Aragon is necessary for this mod because they were such an important power during this time.

Here my new assessment for factions:
Most important- Burgundy, Aragon, Novgorod
Second- Zirides, Zengids (or something similar), Armenia, Jerusalem
third- Vladimir-Suzdal, Norway, Bohemia, Serbia, Kipchaks(Spelling?)

[Kambe]

how about Croatia???

[Icefrisco]

Croatia was destroyed too early into the mod's timeframe.

[aduellist]

Croatia entered into the "Personal Union" (meaning the Kingships of Hungary and Croatia were united in one person) with Hungary in 1102 and became a part of Hungary at that time.

I think Flanders (and Brabant, which folks usually lump together) are best represented as they are now, strong rebels who will be a thorn in the sides of France and the HRE/HRR.

Kingdom of Jerusalem is problematic, since it didn't exist until after Jerusalem and the Crusader States were taken in the First Crusade. Would you want to invest the time and effort into going on Crusade only to see your conquests be converted into another faction? Not my cuppa.

The problem with Burgundy is defining Burgundy. Do we mean Kingdom of Burgundy (part of the Holy Roman Empire) or the Duchy of Burgundy (nominally part of France until around the 14th century)?

I think Aragon is definitely a necessity. Important in the game timeframe, it wasn't united with Castile to make Spain until 1469. One of my prime choices.

Novgorod is a tough call, although one of the game's original factions. It was supplanted by Muscovy pretty early on (which was nominally under Kievan control until the Mongols destroyed them) and maybe we can bridge that transition. Republic of Novgorod would be one of my prime choices.

Lithuania would be interesting. The union with Poland wouldn't happen until 1386 and would, I think, add some spice to that area of the world. They were obviously well enough established to keep Poland, Novgorod/Russia and Teutonic Order busy for a few centuries...

Kipchaks/Cumans/Pechenegs would also be interesting, being somewhat "Mongol Lite", although in order to place them historically you'd have to cut off Kiev from the Black Sea. They would also, however, be destroyed by the Mongols.

I think Volga-Bulgaria would be a more interesting choice than Vladimir-Suzdal, but they're still both another steppe faction and somewhat interchangeable.

Although I'd like to see Bohemia (for family heritage reasons), I think that Bohemia, Norway, Serbia, Armenia et al are best represented as rebels (minor factions). Unless, of course, someone figures out how to fully implement the Hussite War Wagons. Then Bohemia should definitely be in!

Just my .02 worth... :hmmm:

Edit: From a "work needed" perspective, might socal consider incorporating this existing mod?

Lithuania Mod

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=242

[Socal_infidel]

Thanks for all the suggestions/discussion here folks. I've made some headway on one of the other factions besides Georgia. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to give you all a sneak-preview sometime soon. Just need to work on banners and some shields and revisit some of the skins!

Cheers all!

[Icefrisco]

The problem with Burgundy is defining Burgundy. Do we mean Kingdom of Burgundy (part of the Holy Roman Empire) or the Duchy of Burgundy (nominally part of France until around the 14th century)?

We mean the Duchy of Burgundy because it operated independently unlike the kingdom.

Republic of Novgorod would be one of my prime choices.

I agree with that!

[♔ST0MPA♔]

I think Aragon is definitely a necessity. Important in the game timeframe, it wasn't united with Castile to make Spain until 1469. One of my prime choices.

was that after the reconquister, or just before they took Granada?

[Benyi]

I think Irish, Saxons, Aragon, Jerusalem and Teutonic will be fine.

[Socal_infidel]

Howdy all! Got my hands on Kingdoms last night and just wanted to let you know that I'll be adding Novgorod to the next version of PDER, along with Aragon and Georgia! Cheers!

[Icefrisco]

Yeah! Novgorod is great!

Please try to add Burgundy and another western faction!

[Nestor Drake]

Republic of Dubrovnik/Ragusa?