Stele 2

**Krusader** · August 05, 2007, 11:35 AM

Welcome to the second Stele.

Today we will talk about unit recruitment and free upkeep units.

M2TW has a nice unit recruitment feature in that you can recruit 1-3 units at a go depending on settlement size and military infrastructure present. EB2 will definitely take advantage of that. There are however three issues regarding unit recruitment the EB team will have to look into which are vital.

1) How will this affect the AI, as many players are already complaining about stacks upon stacks of enemy troops, most notably the Grey Death (Arche Seleukeia)?

2) Can we return to the EB 0.7x version’s recruitment (RTW v1.2) where we could with ease dictate a unit’s recruitment zone based on MIC level and government and not the current system with factional & regional MICs that we were forced to use due to engine limits.

3) Can we impose a “worldwide limit” on certain units for certain factions, such as Sacred Band Infantry & Cavalry for Qarthadastim. An idea that has been floating around is to restrict certain elite units to so and so many (either a set number or depending on number of settlements conquered or MICs built).

We are also looking into the replenishment rate each settlement has and how many units are available for recruitment. While not debated too much, a consensus so far is that elite units will have a low replenishment rate and few units available for recruitment, so if you lose those units or they get badly mauled you might have to resort to mercenaries which will drain treasury or hope your worse quality troops might fight well enough. There will also be a difference between factions when it comes to unit availability and replenishment rates. Baktria for example might have a slightly higher replenishment rate on cavalry units over Seleukids (although probably not by much), due to that Baktrians seemed to field more cavalry than their western kinsmen. Replenishment and available units in a settlement will also be a considerable factor when we set recruitment zones for Hellenic units in Asia & Africa, as we would want to represent that there are not that many Hellenes there and that squandering your Hellenic troops will force you to rely on native units more.

The free upkeep unit mechanic that is in M2TW is a welcome feature among the EB team, as we can now represent city militia much better.
For us who has a thing for the Successors (check my sig. If nothing shows up Imageshack is on the fritz again), this has given us a nice opportunity to represent the reserve kleruchoi/katoikiai soldiers. In EB1 you have both Pezhetairoi & Klerouchikoi Phalangitai which are basically the same troop type, with Pezhetairoi being slightly better.
In EB2 we are planning on using the Pezhetairoi as the backbone infantry for the Seleukids & Ptolemaioi, representing them as the “pikemen on field duty”. The Klerouchikoi Phalangitai will still be around and probably almost identical in stats, just slightly worse. The Klerouchikoi Phalangitai will be used to represent reserve pikemen, who unless in time of emergency are back home on their farms tilling their lands. In game terms this means that they will cost about as much as Pezhetairoi to recruit and will be free upkeep as long as they are in cities. This again to represent that they are tilling their land allotments, but should an enemy approach they will quickly arm themselves. But, wouldn’t the Seleukid & Ptolemaic players have an advantage then as they can have pretty decent line infantry garrisoned for free in almost any city? Yes, if it hadn’t been for the drawback the Klerouchikoi Phalangitai has. If the soldiers aren’t tilling their lands, they aren’t producing anything for the authorities to tax. This means the Klerouchikoi Phalangitai will have a much higher upkeep than a unit like this should have, which means if you use them in battles outside your settlements they will put a drain on your treasury. This is to represent that taxable produce isn't made and also because soldiers called into duty would receive a salary. But this unit is meant to be good garrison troops and also to join your armies in times of emergencies, like if the enemy invades and you quickly need to scramble an army or if you see your neighbour has left a settlement virtually unguarded and just need a few units quickly to bolster your numbers.

That’s it for this weekend.

**Lusted** · August 05, 2007, 11:43 AM

3) Can we impose a “worldwide limit” on certain units for certain factions,

As far as i'm aware that is not possible, though you are best off looking at threads like this that ER wrote: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73016

Though you might be able to do something with this:
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72085

**BozosLiveHere** · August 05, 2007, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Lusted

As far as i'm aware that is not possible, though you are best off looking at threads like this that ER wrote: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73016

Though you might be able to do something with this:
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72085

If we're able to detect the recruitment of a particular unit (I don't have the docudemons with me right now) we could use ER's solution, making use of the fact that the game saves counter states now. It wouldn't even be that big of a script, if we restricted ourselves to homeland regions.

**Leão magno** · August 06, 2007, 09:52 PM

Really nice stuff, but players (in case of the example AS) would not be forming powerful defenses with the Kleruchoi after being defeated in battle by computer factions, I mean, would not this make too hard to invade settlements? DI believe it is a great idea but must have a restriction code of use that considers the computer faction creating defenses from no were…

**Foot** · August 06, 2007, 09:56 PM

Well the game puts a limit on how many units can be garrisoned for free in a settlement (I think depending on settlement size), so you needn't worry there.

Foot

**The White Knight** · August 21, 2007, 08:43 AM

From the Kingdoms' campaign video's I learned that in some campaigns religion and other things will influence unit availability. Is it possible to use this feature in EB2? If so, how?

**Krusader** · August 21, 2007, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by The White Knight

From the Kingdoms' campaign video's I learned that in some campaigns religion and other things will influence unit availability. Is it possible to use this feature in EB2? If so, how?

We have only discussed this feature, but one thing is to perhaps use religion as culture.
So if you have so and so much "Hellenic" percentage in a region some units like Lonchophoroi, Kleruchikoi Phalangitai and Thureophoroi become available.

Note, just debating atm.

**HistoryProf** · August 27, 2007, 09:54 AM

I see you're debating the use of the seven religion slots. Have you thought of language?

Hellenic culture was wide-spread (Sogdians, having never seen columned temples, were probably really impressed), but language limitations would have effected trade especially, and recruitment to some extent.

This is one reason why Romans couldn't occupy Germanic areas well. Perhaps you could give Eletheroi regions linguistic pre-dispositions?

Of course, languages are more diverse than religions, so maybe this opens up a can of wurms, but just suggestion.

A Baltic language/culture group would be particulary useful for keeping the Baltic wild. The AI gets drawn to all that open space for conquering: Rome esp.

A Dacian group may make it easier for the Getai AI to expand (I've never seen it expand more than one territory.)

Same for Lusitanian, Dardic, Anatolian...

The idea that percentages of imbalance can create unhappiness could play a role.

Just checking in.

**High Chunker Greens** · August 31, 2007, 03:08 PM

You can change the AI so that you do not need to use up a faction slot and make it expand more on its own. Or just take some rebels out from around their lands...

**name** · October 12, 2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Krusader

3) Can we impose a “worldwide limit” on certain units for certain factions, such as Sacred Band Infantry & Cavalry for Qarthadastim. An idea that has been floating around is to restrict certain elite units to so and so many (either a set number or depending on number of settlements conquered or MICs built).

Should be possible, think of the Canons of the Holy Sepulchre, only one of them can exist at a time(they also said that in the preview).

**sirfiggin** · November 22, 2007, 10:33 AM

I've got a query about the Romans and Germania, Germanicus, (Caligula's daddy) did wage a successful campaign against the Germans, even after the humiliation of Teutoburg the Romans were not completely off the idea of controlling those lands, so if Tiberius didn't have him taken out, would there have been a chance that Germanicus could have held onto some of the land beyond the Rhine?

**Companion Cavalry** · November 23, 2007, 12:35 AM

To stop the 'grey death' simply increase the ptollies' financial strength,
give parthia more units to begin with, and possibly add Pergamon as a faction

**Ijontichy Watanabe** · November 23, 2007, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by sirfiggin

I've got a query about the Romans and Germania, Germanicus, (Caligula's daddy) did wage a successful campaign against the Germans, even after the humiliation of Teutoburg the Romans were not completely off the idea of controlling those lands, so if Tiberius didn't have him taken out, would there have been a chance that Germanicus could have held onto some of the land beyond the Rhine?

They even created the core of a provincial structure there, so maybe the answer is yes. but later it wasn't because it didn't fit the gran strategy. Maybe it was a "now or never" turning point.

**Team Sleep** · March 07, 2010, 03:09 PM

Not for anything...but I'm going to have to disagree w/ the free unit upkeep that are in cities. Bottom line is if the player is not AS or Ptolemy the computer as those factions has an extreme unfair advantage. By doing this yes it is easy to defend cities against invasions. And it won't matter if those units held up in the city are free of upkeep because their sole purpose would be the defense of the settlement, not the economy. When a settlement is under siege, at that moment the individual settlement's economy value doesn't mean squat. It's all about holding off the attacker. And considering that the AI is given a substantial amount of monetary support from the script you can damn well expect to see those "emergency" units being employed in the field at all times being that money for the AI is not an issue. Balancing the game further from what it is in EB v1.2 is crucial. But don't destabilize it completely by giving "extra" advantages to non human players. Especially considering that the AI doesn't need anything free. I can assure you that if this is employed it will surely be abused by the AI. And if it isn't it's only because the AI has far superior units to call upon. Furthermore would the units being garrisoned in a settlement add to the bonus of economy? I'm sure the AI needs no bonus to economy. Also these units need to be 1 and the same with the cities' population. If they're in the city "tilling farms", then they need to be incorporated with the "regular" population; and if they leave the city, that also needs to be reflected by the reduction of population in the settlement that they left. Furthermore if we're going to talk about "civilian" armies. All "civilian" or "militia" groups should be free to garrison in ALL nations and be reflected in settlement population and economy when garrisoned. We can't just go giving a few or a couple factions "special" militia or civil defense forces with bonuses to economy, upkeep, population, military. The AI will surely abuse or misuse this new "advantage" & ruin the balance of the game even further.

PLEASE keep the game balanced by either including these units for all factions. Or omit it completely as not to give the AI any more unfair advantages in order to keep the game BALANCED

Thank You