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Thread: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

  1. #1
    Sukauto
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    Default RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Greetings,

    Although it is apparent that I have not spent much time posting on either these temporary forums, or our old home, I must assure you that I have been an avid reader for many years now. During those years, I have primarily played RTR with a few brief forays into TFT and EB. I have of late, however, been playing SPQR quite dedicatedly, and at the expense of much of my personal time.

    Seeing as how there have been some questions regarding the differences between the two mods as of late, I thought it might be helpful to offer a joint review of both. Before starting, I must, however, note that although I claim great familiarity with RTR, I can only claim to have played roughly 150 turns of SPQR, and much of what I speak of regarding it will have to come from other sources, such as comments made about it in its own forum by its creator and legion of devoted fans.

    I intend to post this in both RTR and SPQRs main forum. If the moderators deem it should be moved from there, so be it. In the interests of salvaging some of my personal time, however, Ill only be replying in the SPQR forum, as a courtesy to them considering my limited experience with their mod. I am, however, interested in hearing what the RTR side has to say, and would invite them on over for a conversation.

    This review is not meant to insult anyone. It is merely meant to offer my insights into what each mod offers, and to hopefully help players decide if they should try each out (In my opinion, they certainly should).

    For some basics:

    I am basing this review on RTR Gold edition played on VH/VH with large unit settings and the 4tpy mod. I am basing SPQRs latest edition on H/H with huge unit settings. It is understood that these are not the completely recommended settings for either.

    On to business:

    First and foremost it must be mentioned that each mod has a very different mission statement. RTR is, as the name implies, a modification dedicated to realism, while SPQR strives instead to recreate huge battles and please the personal tastes of its creator (which, I feel comfortable saying, is that of a very challenging game).

    SPQR claims to add some realism, but this statement is, at best, generous. Right from the very first turn and with the very first glance at the Legion recruiting grounds or the composition of Hannibals army, any person with a decent knowledge of the time period will realize that SPQR is very much a fantasy mod. This impression does not change whatsoever when confronting full stacks of barbarian armies comprised in many cases solely of Chosen units, or when fighting units such as Spartan hoplites or elephants, both of which have been made into unbalancing super units that seem to rely much more on legend than reason or fact. Indeed, perhaps a fair way to describe SPQR is as a modification that looks at Roman history from the perspective of fable, folklore, popular conception, and legend.

    RTR strives for realism, and, to the greatest extent capable under the game engine, reaches this goal. The cities, AoR system, Romanization process, and unit capabilities all combine with many other nice touches to recreate the most realistic mod available under the RTW 1.2 engine. The army compositions are much more accurate than SPQRs. Chosen units are much rarer, elephants though decidedly dangerous are not as big of game breakers as in SPQR, and archers, though also dangerous, are incapable of seriously reducing a Legions strength before battle is joined, which they often do in SPQR. In short, it appears that RTRs team has done their homework, and come up with something students of the timeframe would recognize as an accurate portrayal.

    The battles in each mod are very different from one another for many reasons, not the least of which being that each are built on vastly different game engines. Whereas RTR Gold is based on the 1.2 game engine, SPQR is based on the vastly improved 1.5 game engine. The AI under this version appears to be substantially tactically better, with units eager to outflank you, and cavalry protecting quite well at times the AIs own flanks. When combined with the numerous superior units of AI armies (which, though I cannot confirm this is deliberate, are also often aided by experience bonuses), makes for a very challenging affair. While it is almost impossible for an experienced player to lose a fairly-matched battle in RTR, many, many battles in SPQR are near run things or outright defeats.

    This does I must admit make for very exciting game play. Every battle has the potential for being a true nail biter, and you will certainly pay for your mistakes. If you are counting on reinforcements, and they do not arrive, you are in serious trouble.

    However, great as SPQRs battles are, they occur far too frequently for my own taste. SPQR features a very generous economy and population growth aimed to fuel extremely numerous full stacks of AI armies that are promptly sent against you. While this makes the game very challenging, it also makes the game very slow. Im not talking about performance hits (although this is also, no doubt, a problem for all but those with the latest gaming rigs), but turn length. With each battle normally taking at least 45 minutes in SPQR, and numerous battles being initiated by the AI each turn, hitting End Turn can often force you to remain at your computer for hours. SPQR is NOT a mod you can play for a turn while waiting for your girlfriend to get ready, or during a lunch break from work. To play SPQR, you must have available time. In this respect the game play suffers.

    Though the battles in SPQR are challenging, it is the logistics system that really makes the game difficult. In this respect, SPQR and RTR are on fairly equal footing despite taking vastly different routes to obtain it. RTR uses an accurate and challenging AoR system combined with a long and arduous Romanization process to facilitate the need for a strong logistics system. SPQR relies primarily on house rules and the post-marian reforms use of 28 named Legions (my favorite addition), each of which can be recruited in only one province on the map (many erroneously but likely deliberately, in Italy).

    SPQRs house rules ask the player to do many things, including only recruit ten cohorts of any one legion, and to only refit the legion after twenty turns. I personally follow only the former, arguing that although the latter is a nice touch of realism, given the vast inconsistencies with realism in other aspects of the game, I can take liberties as well. Though many will surely decry me for not following the rules precisely, I find it does not make the game much less challenging. With enemy armies consistently at your borders, you need a strong defense, and with the map being on a much larger scale than RTRs, even marches from the Po Valley to Tarentum are time consuming. A steady and dependable logistics system is an absolute requirement to keep from being overwhelmed.

    On the other hand, early in the game, before the Marian reforms, it is entirely possible to conquer any large enemy city and immediately start churning out a pre-Marian legion and with the 0-turn recruitment, you can have it the very next turn. This is not possible in RTR, and as such, the logistics system in RTR is more difficult in the beginning game, though easier as the game goes on.

    The 0-turn recruitment is an interesting device, though a bit of a double-edged sword. Though it is obviously necessary to obtain SPQRs mission statement of huge numerous battles, it also has the tendency to bleed some AI cities dry very quickly of population. This usually occurs in heavily contested border regions, and many cities can be found deeper in enemy territory that still have healthy populations. If I had to recommend one thing for RTR 7.0, however, it would be the inclusion of 0-turn recruitment for the named Roman Legions (which I truly hope are included). They were, after all, enlisted en masse, and 0-turn recruitment would simply be more historically accurate. I am not a modder, however, and am unsure if some units can have 0-turn while others do not.

    As stated before, the named Legions are my favorite part of SPQR. I think all of us RTR players have at one time or another tried to keep track of our legions, and I think most of us found that after awhile, this simply isnt practical or possible. In SPQR it certainly is. Added touches (which I hope will be included with RTR 7.0), are having the units Latin numeral on the unit card (useful), and having the cities that are legionary recruiting grounds say so in their name. For example: Toletum (Legio X). This is EXTREMELY useful, and unless RTRs named Legions will be regionally rather than city-specifically recruited, I think I speak for many fans when I ask that this be included. If impossible, please, please, please include a quick reference in the readme.

    The only disappointment regarding SPQRs legions was with their recruiting grounds. Although a few famous ones (Legio X being the prime example) are recruited in approximately accurate areas, most are not. There are no less than 8 recruiting grounds in Italy proper, for a glaring example.

    I feel it is fair to surmise that this was done for two major reasons. The first reason, obviously, is being to increase the difficulty of the game, and the second being that there just simply arent as many provinces in SPQR as in RTR. I do not agree with the first reason (Having all the famous Spanish legions recruited in Spain could only make the game MORE challenging as the player expands East), but am fine with the second.

    In fact, the map is, in my opinion, one area where SPQR totally and completely outshines RTR. This is not meant as an insult to the RTR map makers, as they have produced a true work of beauty in both the current incarnation and the projected one for 7.0. Though I am no cartographic historian, it also seems wise to bet that RTRs map is more accurate. However, they have also produced a map, which, though longer and bigger is on a much smaller scale than SPQRs, and which features many more cities. In short, RTRs map has the effect of creating many more sieges than field battles (and the screen shots from the latest incarnation do not dissuade me from assuming this will continue). SPQRs features a nice balance between the two. I understand that RTR has a large player base comprised of fans of the various Greek kingdoms, necessitating the need for a dimensionally smaller, though total area-wise larger, map, but I do feel it hampers game play quite a bit and leads to RTR campaigns often becoming stale long before they are finished.

    Another area where SPQRs map outshines RTR Golds is in the various provinces and their rebellion characteristics. For example, though taking Spain is certainly aggravating in RTR, it is a downright nightmare in SPQR. This is certainly accurate, and makes for an interesting challenge. I hope that such considerations are included in RTR 7.0.

    Finally, SPQR has the current decisive advantages of the 1.5 game engine. Loyalty is a key consideration one must consider, with generals discovering that they are popular, powerful, and in position to take your faction on often deciding to do so. This has, 150 turns in, already made for some interesting moments, and should only increase as the game goes on. For this reason, and others hinted at by its creator though not disclosed (likely revolts or rebellions arising through scripting), SPQR promises to be a challenging game from start to finish. RTR, though I love it, is simply too easy after Italy and Greece are conquered, and only gets easier and easier as the game progresses. Even so, 7.0 will also feature the benefits of detailed scripting, and it will be very interesting to see how they apply it.

    In closing, I have to say that I have enjoyed both mods immensely, and highly recommend players of one to try the other. In fact, I think SPQR, though perhaps too fantasy based for hardcore realism fans, would be a fine way for most RTR fans to pass the time until 7.0 is released, as it is a very addictive, very fun mod that showcases a few things that will probably be featured in 7.0 in some form or another.

    I salute both teams efforts, think both did a great job in accomplishing their respective mission statements, and feel both mods are top tier in this community. I think that if both mods leaned a bit more towards each other theyd produce the ultimate mods ever produced. RTR could certainly stand less sieges and more trying battles, while SPQR would do well to get rid of some of the more silly imaginations.

    In brief, here is where each excels:

    Historical Accuracy RTR hands down, though SPQR does prove promising in certain areas.

    Battle Accuracy In terms of army compositions, unit stats and feel, and frequency of huge battles, RTR wins.

    Battle Challenge Without any doubt, this goes to SPQR. Facilitated both by the 1.5 engine, and the inaccurate (though challenging) enemy army compositions.

    Game play Id have to give the edge to SPQR. RTR tends to stagnate after certain areas are conquered, and most games are inevitably beaten long before theyre actually ended. Also, losing a number of battles is fun Fun which doesnt often happen in RTR.

    Logistics System Ill give this a tie, though each uses a very different system. RTRs forces a player to invest much before certain provinces are fully Romanized, while SPQRs ensures that some provinces will always need to be garrisoned by units recruited from far off lands.

    Logistics Challenge This one is split. RTR is more logistically challenging during the early game while SPQRs is much more so as the game progresses.

    Map Though both are works of art and despite the fact that RTRs is more accurate, in terms of game play and more diverse battle locations, SPQR wins hands down.

    Overall It all depends on what youre looking for. If you want a simulation, go with RTR. If you want a game, go with SPQR. If you have a hectic schedule, RTR may very well suit your needs better. If you want huge, difficult battles with frequency, SPQR is the one for you.

    My Regards,

    Vudak

  2. #2
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    I personally don't think it possible to write an accurate review of SPQR until one has conquered at least half the map playing strictly by the houserules.

    Also it has to be said that SPQR is designed for a completely different type of player. The historical accuracy in SPQR is not all put into geography, skins or starting positions. The historical flavour is in the fact that it is a simulation of the roman empire, with all its glory. You feel like the emperor during the campaign, and like a general during the epic battles.

    From my experience, RTR is a game with ultimate historically accurate start and skins and such. While SPQR is a simulation of the roman empire, and it is realistic in the way and difficulty that the roman empire grows, with all its flair and challenge.


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  3. #3
    Alatar's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Indeed, playing H/H instead of M?M will make some problems.

    The Legions being recruited in the wrong place is minor, very minor.

    And if you use the kill sheet you can keep track of the legions early in the game aswell, for example my V legion don't get retrain in any city, save there starting one.

  4. #4

    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    You forgot mentioning RTR Platinum is based on the 1.5 Engine, thus offering an improved AI both in battles and in the campaign map.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  5. #5
    Alatar's Avatar Suguchi
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    I've played both, SPQR battles are far more challanging.

  6. #6
    GaussSoldier's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Never have I read in this forum a post that said anything about SPQR promising any degree of realism. If it did make such claims, then it would refer to the authenticity of building an empire from scratch and then holding it. If you must call SPQR a "game" then call it so for the fact that it gives entertainment. Not because it lacks total realism.

    To accurately review this mod you should play by the house rules and play longer than you have. 37 and a half years is a long time with the 4TPY script on but at least playing to the Marius Reforms and then with the new legions would give a better description of what the early-mid game is like and therefore, what the mod is really like. Although, if you did play to the Marian reforms and played with the Marius legions then forget about everything I said in this section. It's just that it was not made clear.

    I have to pick at this because the justification is appalling.
    SPQRs house rules ask the player to do many things, including only recruit ten cohorts of any one legion, and to only refit the legion after twenty turns. I personally follow only the former, arguing that although the latter is a nice touch of realism, given the vast inconsistencies with realism in other aspects of the game, I can take liberties as well.

    Again with the realism. Just because the creator did little for it doesn't mean that the rules can be bent, there is no justification for that. Two completely different mods, yet you can't let go of the one thing that seems to tie them together. You never want to say something like that in any aspect, especially when, in this situation, your word will be taken as respectable and the truth. If I completely misunderstood you then please tell me, I just can't believe you thought that was okay to say or do.

    All criticisms of your criticism aside, thank you for offering this side-by-side comparison of the two games, it will help those who are on the fence. Although I would recommend to those people to talk with the players also as they can give a better view of their mod, however biased they may be.


  7. #7
    Sukauto
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Thank you all for reading my little review. In response to some of your comments, I feel I need to clear a few things up. I'm new to this forum, so please forgive my paraphrasing of your comments as I'd rather get this done quickly so I can get back to playing SPQR

    A few quick things:

    - I did fail to mention RTR Platinum uses 1.5 simply because I've never tried Platinum, ever. Hard to review something like that

    - I have played SPQR past the Marian Reforms. I have 5 legions now, control of Italy, Cisalpine Gaul, the Province, and most of Spain. Earlier, I led an attack on Greece to sieze the wonder there, but was eventually repulsed.

    - I feel I clearly laid out the limitations of my review right from the get-go. I said which versions I was using, admitted to where I was not going with the recommended settings, and admitted to my limited experience with SPQR. In this respect, with all these disclaimers, I think my review is entirely fair.

    Now, on to what I suppose is the biggest contention. My "complaining" that SPQR is not historically accurate. Well, here's the thing. It isn't. And if I'm going to be giving a fair dual review, I need to mention that. People who can't live without realism may be turned off by this mod. Others, like me, who can stomach bending the realism a bit, will enjoy this mod.

    However, my contention that (paraphrased) "Since the mod isn't realistic, I figure I can take liberties with a few house rules" is also, in my eyes, perfectly fair. Now, you can say whatever you like about how the aim of this mod was never to be historically accurate, but the bottom line is, consciously or subconsciously, the house rules are designed in such a way to add realism.

    The 20 turns between enlistments, dictated compositions of armies, and general rules for conduct, were not invented by the creator. They were inspired by real life.

    My point - and it remains - is that if the mod is not historically accurate, it is odd that the player should "have" to play by rules that are. That is akin to a Civil War reenactment where one side has MP40s.

    I was merely putting on another disclaimer saying where I had deviated from the suggested path put forth by the designer.

    Now, in the RTR thread, someone suggested that I was saying "SPQR" is worse than RTR because it's not realistic. I don't think anyone who reads this review with an open mind will think that, as I feel my review suggests that, in my opinion, RTR is better at realism, and SPQR is better at gameplay. Which I at least thought were the general aims of each modification - hence my congratulations on each achieving their goals.

    All that said, I would like to say one thing. In the online flight sim community, we have a saying: "It's their $15." It basically means, everyone has every right to play how they like.

    From reading some of the past threads, with some players here saying "don't do this, don't do that," it strikes me that maybe not everyone here has heard that phrase before.

    As such, I reviewed these mods based on how I like to play - not how you like to play. I tried to review these mods based on how they are constructed - not instructed. Because, like it or not, most people are not going to play by the exact house rules. Most people are going to play by rules that make the game fun for them.

    And, as I indicated in my review, both mods certainly have plenty of fun to offer all sorts of players.

    My Regards,

    Vudak

  8. #8
    Whiskeyjack's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Don't see what the fuss is about tbh, the reveiw seemed perfecly reasonable(and accurate) to me and was pretty complimentary to SPQR.

  9. #9
    Konig's Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    well ive never played RTR. That said, i think its a shame that Vudak didnt play by the house rules, the way SPQR is meant to be played OR RTR Platinum as Marcus pointed out, to make for a more accurate review. I can't but wonder whether he would've experienced too many battles if he played on M/M.

    I do agree on his point on realism. SPQR problably isn't the most realist Rome Mod out there, but i honestly couldn't care less. gameplay is first to me, realism second. and i know there are a lot of players out there that just have more fun when its more realistic, which is why comparing these two mods imo is a little like apples and oranges.

    That said, i do appreciate these comparative reviews which can help you decide between mods and expose their differences.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Well I think Lt has said it before:

    Realism comes in different flavours. SPQR's realism isn't entirely in the geography, units, factions or start positions. It is simulated realism, in the tactics, logistics, and the way the campaign is played out. And this type of realism is attained through the houserules.

    Because of this, SPQR isn't less realistic. It is realistic in a different way.

    SPQR is made to be played a certain way. Playing it another way is certainly possible, but you can hardly judge the mod by playing in a way that it was not designed to be played (btw I am NOT directing this at Vudak! this is a general comment aimed at no one). And the game will not be the same as if you play by houserules (believe me, I used to play not strictly by houserules, and it certainly was not nearly as fun, nor did the game play out the intended way).


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  11. #11
    Sukauto
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    You know, I think I may have given the impression that I am flagrantly neglecting all the House rules. This really isn't the case. By and large, for the most part all I'm not following is rule #6:

    "6. Never replenish Cohorts when they start to get depleted, Only do so after 20 Turns. In the meantime use Auxilia to fill in thinning Ranks."

    When my armies are getting hit by multiple stacks full of elite units every turn, this rule doesn't make much sense. Will it make the game more challenging? Sure, but as I repeatedly stated (and praised SPQR for), the game is challenging regardless.

    However, it has been brought to my attention that maybe the problem is that I'm playing on H/H. Some people have said that this isn't how the game was intended, but then again, House rule #8:

    "8. Always play SPQR:TW on M/M settings, unless too easy then play harder, but it should be too easy if you dont blitz or use the Garrison script."

    So, I'm really not seeing how there can be a point of contention here, or relegate my review to "a shame." It kind of makes one wonder just how familiar people are with the very rules they're admonishing me for not following to the T.

    I have to admit, I'm also not using House Rule #24, but that is because I don't have Microsoft Excel

    Honestly, I don't think those of you concerned about how my bending of the house rules has affected my game play have much of a case, but it is through my own neglect to further specify how I was playing each that your concerns arose.

    Nonetheless, I'll tell you what. I'll start a new campaign on M/M and play with every last house rule there is. Perhaps I'll amend the review after that, but there is a possibility I won't see that great of a difference, too. But, I'll take your word for it that I will, and I'll give it a shot.

    I wouldn't exactly count on the review having no bad marks that time, though, either. But then again, everyone has to remember that what I see in each of these mods as "bad," others might see as "great!" I only ever wrote the thing to give people an opportunity to get a reasonably accurate portrayal of what they could expect - not to win friends or lose them

  12. #12
    Konig's Avatar Chinen
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    hey dont get me wrong. i think that was a great review. very unbiasedly (if that even a word) written, and its one of the most complete SPQR reviews I've read. the main problem i see with it though is not the fact that you dont follow ALL the house rules, but the difficulty settings you played on. I have a gut feeling that you wont get as many battles as you do if you tone down these settings. and maybe if you play the platinum version of RTR you'll notice other differences as well.

  13. #13
    GaussSoldier's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Vudak View Post
    I only ever wrote the thing to give people an opportunity to get a reasonably accurate portrayal of what they could expect - not to win friends or lose them

    In that case, perhaps the review should never have happened. The mods are too different in scope and style that a direct comparison would not
    work at all.

    I think a breakdown of each mod's features, aims, and overall good points would serve the community better. The breakdowns would give them a taste of what each mod is like and if they're interested then they could ask the players. Completely neutral and allows those interested to discuss the negative points with the players who will undoubtedly downplay the bad parts and ease the newcomers into the mod who will then forget about those parts and play like everyone else, easy assimilation.

    I didn't mention listing the negatives as they are more a matter of opinion. (Frequency of the battles, there are actually people who like that "feature" and I'm not one of em!)

    Your review was quite analytical and I didn't mean to scorch you that much. I was posting out of anger, the Greeks whipped my butt at Naupactus.


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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    By the way, I also have made some changes myself to make the game harder (but not more battles)
    I made the surgeon/physician/priestess of juno ancillaries half as common, and they don't have as much effect (so I will lose more men).

    I also removed the experience bonus that the academy gives for the romans (the AI still gets it) which means my legionaries start with 0 experience. I am noticing this makes it a good deal harder which is good. Playing on hard difficulty gives outright +'s for the AI in battle, which I don't care for.

    Also I have my own houserules added onto the originals, but I do keep all the normal ones as well. For example:
    1. Play with unlimited men on battlefield
    2. Never let AI control reinforcements
    3. Never block bridges with forts (it confuses the AI)
    4. Always use the RECRUITED GENERALS, not family members to command legions.
    5. ONLY use family members as governors. When GENERALS retire or are dismissed from service due to low loyalty, they must sit in Arretium (or Rome when I take it) until they die, or if they gain loyalty back they can command legions again.
    6. Always use a matched pair, of one auxilia legion with each named legion. The auxilia legion is attached to the named legion, and must stay nearby. When the named legion takes losses, these are replaced from the auxilia legion and the auxilia legion is the one that gets refitted. Typically on a defensive border, the auxilia legion will be in a city, while the named legion does the fighting.
    7. Never form mercenary legions. Mercenaries are only used in special roleplaying cases, or when legions take heavy losses in battle and there are no auxilia nearby. Never replace the normal cavalry with barbarian noble cavalry for instance.
    8. Always stay with the normal layout of legions, except in the case of missile troops, where I can use 3 javelin/1 archer or 3 archer/1 javelin when embarking on campaigns, depending on who I'm fighting. Against carthage, I use the former, against horse archer factions, I will use the latter.
    9. On my killsheet I record lots of particulars for the legions, like all previous commanders, how many battles they've fought against who, etc. Also I have a function that lets me know when each legion has spent 20-25 turns in the field and is ready to be refitted. This is very handy.
    10. Trigger marian reforms no sooner than 175 BC, and build the imperial barracks no sooner than 140 BC. (This one is important!).

    There are more that I can't remember right now, but nothing vital I think.


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  15. #15
    GaussSoldier's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    I only have one personal rule I follow.

    Follow a policy of Romanization for occupied cities- When a city is taken, the legion(s) cannot advance from that territory until the city has a stone wall, a large temple of Jupiter, all rank 3 military buildings, and an academy. I also leave a legion-like garrison until I have expanded two territories away from that city and then I will either disband the garrison or bring it with me, depending on the situation. Pre-marius garrisons consists of 6 hastati, 6 principes, 3 triarii, 1 general, one cavalry unit, and 3 velites. Marius garrisons consists of 10 sword auxilia, 4 spear auxilia, 1 general, one cavalry unit, 2 archers, and 2 skirmishers.

    May not seem like much but I hope it will slow my advance for difficulty purposes as well as making sure that I put some money into my new cities before leaving them.


  16. #16
    BiggBudd's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Well ive played both, RTR platuim and SPQR. Ive also tryed modding both to get the "game" i like. RTR works with 0 time recuitment, ive tryed it, modded the units to be 0 time recuitment, some of them used to take 3 turns otherwise! But RTR isnt anyway as ctd free as SPQR, every campaign i started as RTR got a bad ctd at some point, [ norm after a raid on a city ] which was unrecoverable, even going bk several moves u'd get the ctd at same point! In SPQR u get ctd's, but a reload resolves it NP!
    But i agree there is too many battles in SPQR for MY taste, so ive reduced the econ and play at large settings to advoid population/40 min battles, works great, battles last 10-20 mins, only get attacked by 2 stacks norm, and you need to deploy ur legions carefully to defend ur empires.
    So because u can mod ur own game to suit, Ctd's are the issue, SPQR to win hands down!!!

  17. #17
    Murakawa
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    I actually play 3 mods all for different reasons. If I want to play Rome then SPQR, I like how the legions are managed but don't like the randomness of rebellions. I conquered slowly then had 8 areas rebel smack next to my enemy. Everything thing seems to function on randomness. However the Roman armies are perfect as far as I am concerned especially once you can build imperial barracks. RTR has realism but seems to lack units for the Romans and is the only mod I use to play a quick game.

    EB however I use for playing as anything other than Rome, I find the management of units and all that wonderfully done and the revamp has had heaps done it savour for I don't get any CTDs.

    Its all about horses for courses am not a fanboy of anyone of them but I play them depending on what I want. End of the day I never touch Vanilla

  18. #18
    Sukauto
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Guys, you have me laughing now

    All this fuss over how I didn't play precisely by the house rules and now everyone's admitting they don't either? Come on

    I know, I know, "Well, I'm doing it to make it 'Harder'"

    Anyway, the review is what it is. RTR Gold vs. SPQR based solely on my experiences and my tastes. It's completely honest with my gameplay experience and my conclusion was that each had done a great job achieving their stated goals, which I outlined briefly during the introduction.

    I would admit that I probably should have used RTR Platinum, but it's not like I didn't outline exactly which version I was using, and it's not like people familiar with Platinum are censored from piping in and adding amendments.

    And now, onto conquer Gaul

  19. #19
    Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    I thought, on the whole, it was a fair and informative review~

    As someone mentioned before, SPQR is an empire simulation. The longer you play, the more challenging it becomes. Granted, much of the challenge does shift from strategic to management.

    Personally, I prefere games that continues to interest me as I progress...and SPQR does this splendedly.

  20. #20
    Uandwhosearmy's Avatar Chinen
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    300

    Default Re: RTR Gold vs. SPQR Review

    Very good review in my book.

    The one thing that gets me about SPQR is the repeated full stack battles during practically every turn... I know it's part of the base for the mod, but sometimes I wish it would progress at a slightly higher pace.

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