An OFFENSIVE phalanx formation

[Commander_Vimes]

Does anyone no an offensive battleplan for say....the greeks who have possibly have the best inf in the game SPARTANS!!!! but usually i have to say in a stupid box or retreat to the red line just so they can't flank me.Any ideas so I can get a more 300 feel to these battles?

[Evan_2009]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=110705&page=2

I beat Rome online without using a box! And I could have easily gone offensive, but he attacked at the very beginning of the battle. BTW, Urbans beat Spartans 1v1

[][Xyphos][ - Lee]

yeah urbans beat spartans 1 on 1, when im online i usually like to use macedon, most often my basic set up is 3 or 4 archers on lose formation infront of my phalanxs (about 4) then i have 3 units of cav on each of the flanks (i only play 10k btw), if you want to use the greeks then you are going to have to be quite a skillful player, they are very weak in cav, for more info on the greeks and tactic for them click the link http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=109188 it may have some tactics for you hope i helped

[Prince_of_Macedon]

when im online i usually like to use macedon, most often my basic set up is 3 or 4 archers on lose formation infront of my phalanxs (about 4) then i have 3 units of cav on each of the flanks (i only play 10k btw)

I think you've played me way too many times.

[celtic_warlord422]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=110705&page=2

I beat Rome online without using a box! And I could have easily gone offensive, but he attacked at the very beginning of the battle. BTW, Urbans beat Spartans 1v1

What map?? If spartans can wedge themselves somewhere then they can own Urbans.

Just to be on topic, try and keep phalanxes out of that formation for as much as possible. This allows them to be flexible and can respond quickly.

[][Xyphos][ - Lee]

I think you've played me way too many times.

lol yeah we have played alot togeather, i remember when i first played you, you showed me the importance of having lots of good experianced cavalry lol

[Evan_2009]

What map?? If spartans can wedge themselves somewhere then they can own Urbans.

Just to be on topic, try and keep phalanxes out of that formation for as much as possible. This allows them to be flexible and can respond quickly.

Uh, no offense but wedging them against the boundary line is kinda nooby...and if u look at the link you should be able to tell by the pics that it was grassy flatland...and my Spartans didn't even engage the Urbans til they routed...it was all the Armoured Hoplites.

[Calyptus]

I usually play with entire stacks of (armoured) hoplites with a few greek archers behind them, and I just keep them in a tight line and march toward the enemy. Units on the flanks should be out of phalanx for mobility reasons.

Most of the time they will engage the flanks with cavalry and even infantry and try to avoid the centre. If that happens and your getting crushed, good luck. No id how to counter that, that why I rather go defensive with phalanx.

[captainbloodloss]

You have to use what is called "combined arms". That simply means that if you have an army composed of entireley of phalangites you will be easily surrounded and killed. However, if you get some light troops even skirmishers, they can hold off the enemy on the flanks long enough for your phalanx units to hammer through the enemy center.

However, I must warn that this is a very unstable strategy. If your opponent's battle line holds and he breaks your flank units prematurely your army has handed your opponent and envelopment.

Second, make judicious use of and echelon formation, right or left. This can be a real boon to players who don't want to or can't rely on mercenaries or light troops to guard the flanks. Because you use the geometry of the slanted line to easily hold one flank and guard the other with all your other troop types. Very effective because you are concentrating your forces.

If your opponent decides to not engage your center at all then take your phalangites out of phalanx march through their center and enveop them on either side. Remeber, your phalangites are still formidable infantry even without the phalanx formation.

[davyjones06]

I put the phalanxes in a semicircle formation and advance them. It is less mobile but the AI rarely takes advantage of that.

[Herr Schnitzel]

It's been a long time since I played with the Greeks/Macedonians...

But, I still remember my strategy.

The first line was made up of my best soldiers, so they can hold quite long.
I would let the enemy come as close as possible, and let them attack the first line. Then they attack the flanks. I let them. But god forbid that you let them flank you and attack the rear, and cavalry is here to stop that maneuver.

Then the second, weaker line comes in.
I split it in two smaller lines, and flank the enemy which is flanking the first line. Meanwhile i send the second line to the enemy's main battle lines' flank. When you finish the flankers off (which is pretty soon), you can continue surround the enemy's main battle line, and then the battle's pretty much over.

Basically, give the enemy a sense of false security, and surround them when they come close enough.

[LeonidasOfSparta]

I almost never play offensive phalanx cause I'm much better at defending.
My strategy is to put most powerfull hoplites in front and others around forming some kind of noob box.

Leonidas

[_TubbZ_]

You have to use what is called "combined arms". That simply means that if you have an army composed of entireley of phalangites you will be easily surrounded and killed. However, if you get some light troops even skirmishers, they can hold off the enemy on the flanks long enough for your phalanx units to hammer through the enemy center.

However, I must warn that this is a very unstable strategy. If your opponent's battle line holds and he breaks your flank units prematurely your army has handed your opponent and envelopment.

Second, make judicious use of and echelon formation, right or left. This can be a real boon to players who don't want to or can't rely on mercenaries or light troops to guard the flanks. Because you use the geometry of the slanted line to easily hold one flank and guard the other with all your other troop types. Very effective because you are concentrating your forces.

If your opponent decides to not engage your center at all then take your phalangites out of phalanx march through their center and enveop them on either side. Remeber, your phalangites are still formidable infantry even without the phalanx formation.

you will get shot/ skirmished to death like that. when people take greeks or macedon its fun to take no infantry at all and rely on archers a few horse archers and about 6 good cavalry to do the job. Its also really frustrating to play against which leads to the enemy making silly mistakes

[dre123]

My stratagy is to keep the enemy in place and occupied with my phalax and then send my cavalry charging into their flanks - just like alexander the great did

[Samuel Adams]

actually the echlon is what made the thebans win the battle of Luectra against the Spartans. I used it to great effect against other hoplite-heavy armies in my new campaign as Pergamum, where my heavily armed and deep ranked phalanx on my flank engaged the enemy and my cavalry was able to sweep around the enemy flank and take care of their skirmishers and light troops. Their other flank, as yet unengaged, came to help the engaged troops as they were about to break, and I was able to use my thinner flank to sweep their flank of light troops, archers, and their general, and attack them in the rear.




(used courtesy of http://etc.usf.edu/)

[LeonidasOfSparta]

immpresive

Leonidas

[Prince_of_Macedon]

actually the echlon is what made the thebans win the battle of Luectra against the Spartans. I used it to great effect against other hoplite-heavy armies in my new campaign as Pergamum, where my heavily armed and deep ranked phalanx on my flank engaged the enemy and my cavalry was able to sweep around the enemy flank and take care of their skirmishers and light troops. Their other flank, as yet unengaged, came to help the engaged troops as they were about to break, and I was able to use my thinner flank to sweep their flank of light troops, archers, and their general, and attack them in the rear.

msTubbZ is talking about how online players can own hoplite/phalangite spam. You initially didn't mention any cavalry (in your other post). But in any case, an army of horse archers would easily thump the army you described (even if you had a handful of cavalry).

However, there's nothing wrong marching in an echeloned formation.

[captainbloodloss]

That is true tubbz. I guess it all depends on what type of game you want to play. You can go for competitive gameplay, because traditional tactics are not necessarily simulated well in RTW vanilla, or you could try to make it historical.
Keep your options open, half of the fun of the TW games, in my opinion, is coming up with new and innovative tactics to defeat your foeas

[Samuel Adams]

msTubbZ is talking about how online players can own hoplite/phalangite spam. You initially didn't mention any cavalry (in your other post). But in any case, an army of horse archers would easily thump the army you described (even if you had a handful of cavalry).

However, there's nothing wrong marching in an echeloned formation.

AH! I re-read the post... So pull a Parthian vs. Crassus type deal. Cool. I like fighting other phalanx-heavy formations with more traditional hoplite-on-hoplite action, using minimal cavalry and archers (as many greeks or hellenistic nations thought that it was more manly to fight on foot, man to man, as opposed to on horse, until Alexander, and archers were considered cowards by many greeks). That's what I was referring to, but I see the point made by msTubbz...

[Kraut]

You have to use what is called "combined arms". That simply means that if you have an army composed of entireley of phalangites you will be easily surrounded and killed. However, if you get some light troops even skirmishers, they can hold off the enemy on the flanks long enough for your phalanx units to hammer through the enemy center.

Yes, this is what I often did with the Greek cities. Two units of Heavy Peltasts (or better: Illyrian Mercs) can do the job. USe them in front of the Phalanx first to harass the enemy until their Javelins are used up, then withdraw them behind the line and place them behind your flanks, one unit on each side. The outermost Hoplite unit of the Phalanx should also held back a little bit to react against flanking from the enemy. Then, when the enemy flanking unit is pinned by the Hoplites, charge them in the back or flank with the Peltasts.

I rarely use Cav for this purpose, as they are mostly occupied on the "outer" flanks to hold off the enemy cav, but IF you can use cav for this taks, it will be even better than with Peltasts.