The Complete EDU Guide

[Aradan]

Guide updated with info on how to create 1-soldier units on all unit-size settings.

[Hister]

When I create in the EDU a new ship - for example triakonter, as "light battleship", what values are actually auto-calculated when it comes to naval battles?:

type triakonter
dictionary triakonter
category ship
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier roman_crew, 15, 0, 1
ship light battleship
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.2, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 6, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, none, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 2, 5, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 8, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 603, 115, 20, 30, 170
ownership roman

As much as I know battle calculation between two ships is made by game engine only on the number of soldiers the ship has written in EDU. Right? Are any other values read by game engine like primary attack and primary armour?

Any info on the matter will be greatly appreciated.

[Aradan]

Primary attack and defense values do count, as well as primary hitpoints and crew numbers. A thing to note: Shield or defense skill seem to count less than armour, just like in unit combat auto-calc.

Hmm, I should update the Guide with that, but naval battles are so random they get irritating...

[Hister]

Thank you very much Aradan! I have been waiting for answer for a very long time in other sections of this forum. + REP for you. Yes please update the first page with what values are read by auto-calculated naval battles - I might not be the only one looking for that info.

Do you also happen to know which of the below tags are actually read and processed by game engine in descr_ship.txt when auto calculated battle is done?:

; size size of the ship in metres (10-50)
; speed speed of the ship in kmph (1-20)
; power method of power (sail, oars)
; artillery artillery type (flame, rock) - this should refer to the engine_db eventually
; ram (yes, no)
; durability damage ship can take before sinking (0-20)
; armour armour value of ship (0-20)
; depth how much water it draws (in m), depth of water needed to operate
; beam height of the sides, (for boarding, firing archers ect)
; carrying_capacity

Which above tags (values) are read by game engine?

[Aradan]

Unit class does not seem to affect the battle results at all, so my guess is none of these are parsed, and are just legacy code from when the CA intended to include naval combat in RTW.

Guide updated, naval combat info is in the Related Info section.

[Hister]

Okey, thank you very much!

[florin80]

What do you take into account when you choose the values for the stat_ground? For example:

1. Should some units get bonuses for sand and snow or is it more realistic to represent the units used to these conditions simply by not giving them a penalty(or giving them a lesser penalty)?
2. Which type of units should get bonuses and penalties for scrub? Close rank units vs skirmisher units?
3. Which units should get a penalty in forest? The cavalry and close rank units I`m guessing. But should those with bigger shields and extra amour get any too?
4. Should heavily armored units get a penalty fighting in snow?

Any other rules that you use as a guide I`d be interested in. Thanks!

[Aradan]

1. Armour: As it increases, so does stat_heat and sand/snow penalties.

Generally you don't need to be too harsh with the latter, as these terrain types usually come with slower movement-speed modifiers, whcih result in units getting tired faster, which accomplishes what you want. In cases of very heavily armoured units (or very lightly dressed) of course, you add an extra sth.

2. Weapons: The longer they get, they bigger the forest penalty.

Spears (the longer the worse), pikes, 2-handed swords/axes, are difficult to use when there's not much space. Axes on the other hand, are fine for woods. I think shields and heavy armour don't need to get penaltised in forest, but I could live with penalties as well.

3. ground-type bonuses are given as small boosts to units depending on "region of origin"

Skirmishers/guerilla units get bonus on sccrub, foresters in woods, vikings in snow, noobians on sand and so on. Small stuff, +1/+2 maximum.

4. Cavalry gets penalties everywhere, especially in forests.

That's the core of it I think, of course one can play a bit to create some "specialist" units.

[florin80]

I find the bonuses given by the thrown attribute very interesting. And I think I need to fix a number of things in my EDU related to thrown, prec and ap. But I`d like confirmation first for these matters:

1. If units with prec do not get the thrown attribute(which should be reserved for skirmishers only) then the line for a hastati type unit should look like this?

stat_pri_attr    prec

2. I`ve noticed that the ap attribute for these throwing units comes in some cases along the thrown attribute. No comma between them. Like the ap couldn`t exist all by itself. Which makes for mentioning thrown twice. For example:

stat_pri_attr    prec,thrown,thrown ap

Now, if I`m right, for a hastati, the thrown should disappear entirely, and it should actually look just like this:

stat_pri_attr    prec, ap

Right?
And for a javelins armed skirmisher, should it look like this?

stat_pri_attr    prec,thrown, ap

(comma between thrown and ap)

And a separate question. Should the cavalry get a lower stat_heat penalty than the infantry? I`m guessing it`s more important on how easy the horse get`s tired than the rider and I presume it would take more for the horse. I don`t see a way to make the horse alone get tired slower so I thought of this. Any thoughts?

[Aradan]

1. yep
2. yes and yes

Yes, you got a point. The man on horseback does not have to walk/run himself, so even heavier armour will not be *that* cumbersome. And generally horses have better stamina than men. I'd say a -1 would be fine with horsemen, and that it would also depend on the horse's barding.

[florin80]

Thank you!

About the stat_heat for cavalry and the horse`s armor. That`s what I was thinking too. And imo the least comfortable in hot climate would be the heaviest armored troops and mounts. Those with full metal armor for them and the horses. In other words, the cataphracts. So I`d give them the maximum value(5 if I got it right). However. The paradox here is that in a rtw timeframe mod it would make the parthian cataphracts(for example) the least effective in their home area from where they would also need to expand successfully.

[Aradan]

Well, then you have to wonder why those guys developed that kind of armour for that climate. Maybe they were using some sort of special padding or maybe they felt that the extra armour was worth the heat stroke...

[florin80]

[weapon_tech] : Unit weapon's tech type. Can be: simple, other, blade, archery or siege.

Does it make any difference using either simple or blade for a sword/axe/mace/spear weapon? And what does other refer to? Is it restricted to elephants?

[Squid]

I'm pretty sure it's just which weapon bonus in EDB will provide a weapon's upgrade.

[florin80]

Right. Thank you! Then the only logic behind this is to differentiate them according to their complexity so as to upgrade them at different levels and in different buildings.
And simple(in EDB weapon_simple) should be for fairly basic weapons(like spears, clubs and maybe axes) and blade(in EDB weapon_bladed) should generally be for swords. And I guess the weapon_missile from EDB refers to the weapons with archery in EDU, right?

[Aradan]

weapon_missile refers to units with "missile" tech weapons, yep.

[florin80]

What exactly is the scrubland in RTW? Those areas with bushes and rocks? They seem to always go together(bushes and rocks). This is from tic:

Is it scrub?

Still, I`m wondering if units used to snow conditions should get a bonus there. Doesn`t seem realistic to me. All snowy areas in rtw have a grassy summer. And this would translate that during the summer when there is no snow the same unit has no bonus and that it suddenly attacks better in winter. So unless it adds snowballs to its arsenal I don`t think it should get a bonus, but rather him getting used to the conditions should mean 0 for snow and higher penalties for anyone else who`s foreign to the climate.
And maybe similar thing for sand. This things can only trouble a fighter imo, not make it fight better.
Scrub and forest on the other hand do seem able to me to give bonuses to fighters who know how to exploit the conditions. At least maybe.
Any thoughts?

[AqD]

Does it make any difference using either simple or blade for a sword/axe/mace/spear weapon? And what does other refer to? Is it restricted to elephants?

simple and blade can get different upgrades in EDB, and have different text ("Light" and "Heavy" weapons). It can be used to separate high-quality weapons such as gallic longswords and poor ones like dagger.

the sword/axe/mace/spear are for sounds, no special use I think.

both of archery and siege can be set for missile weapons. If you give an archer "siege" type, he would get the capability to frighten enemies by arrows, but it would also need other editing to make the arrow sound to work for the unit (in descr_sounds_weapons.txt).
________
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[Aradan]

The weapon types are just "available" categories, what you use them for is up to you. For example, we have used the "siege" slot for orcish weaponry and the "other" slot for unupgradeable weapons (wooden, fists, mithril, etc) but you could use it for anything, and you could choose to upgrade it as well.

Yep, that is scrub I think. It's difficult to kno when you're fighting on scrub...

The rationale on sand/snow is valid. What I'm saying is that since those environments penatlise all units anyway, the small bonus is essentially a reduced penalty. Both ways could work imo.

[florin80]

The rationale on sand/snow is valid. What I'm saying is that since those environments penatlise all units anyway, the small bonus is essentially a reduced penalty.

Right. That`s another way to look at it. Good point.
How much would you recommend penalizing the cavalry and sarissa armed infantry in the forests? Should it go all the way(i.e. -8) for pikemen or is excessive? Naturally, it shouldn`t exceed the value of that unit`s attack. In my case I`m looking at a pezoi with 9 for attack.